Shot release. Do you feel it's the stick or the shooter?

[60PlusWinger 82]

So in the past year ish "quickest release ever" and "quick release taper" and all of this has been thrown around quite a bit but do you guys think that the quickness of your release is really changed by shooting with a low kick stick vs a mid kick stick? Or do you think it's the shooter? My buddy just got himself a 75 flex Easton Stealth CX and said to me that he needs everything on his side to get his shot off quicker but I personally think he just needs to practice shooting more.

[evor1 6]

its all marketing buzz

[Zorlac 22]

A true pro can snap a puck faster off ANY stick than you can. Find something you feel "comfortable" with and go from there...

Practice makes perfect.

[Scurvy 3]

Shooter all the way.

[60PlusWinger 82]

I vote shooter

[fbvnyc 12]

Shooter for sure.

[flip12 722]

I don't doubt the physics of the materials and composition tuning that goes into newer stick technology like the current QR stuff. I tend to side with everyone above who says what happens with the shooter is more important. The marketed latest-and-greatest technology isn't as interesting to me as the simpler stuff like blade geometry: having the lie and rocker that work naturally for the shooter is, in my opinion, much more enabling than changing the flex profile or springing for refinements in tuning the materials of the lower parts of the stick.

As usual, the marketing hype engages the consumer at the point of most common misconception (such as the 'lighter is always better' meme) to try and win battles for market share. The more complicated way of looking at the subtle variations in different players is lost on most people buying sticks or skates or whatever for that matter.

[60PlusWinger 82]

I've spoken with a lot of people about manufacturers really digging for new things to come up with because the stick technology has sort of hit a wall the past few years. The newest isn't exactly the greatest. I personally am sort of forced to go newer because my pattern isn't as available as a P88/P92 whatever. I use an E28/P28/Kreps. The funny part is that if I'm shopping for Bauer sticks I tend to migrate to the MX3. I'm not a D man, I'm not a "full motion shooter" like their website suggests, I've just used each line and that stick just gives me the hottest shots which to me, even if the motion of the ocean isn't the fastest the puck being faster than the goalie is what matters. I scored 10 times as many goals, literally as my 1X sticks with my MX3. For a long time I believed in all the stuff that the manufacturer said until I actually used all the different stuff and realized you have to take all of that with a grain of salt.

Mid kicks equal more power for me than low, it's no mystery. Is release more important than velocity?

[flip12 722]

Have you tried BASE? They have the same pattern.

[60PlusWinger 82]

I'm not worried about pattern availability I'm just saying that if I found an NXG with a kreps curve I wouldn't be sure that I'd like an MX3 or even a 1S more even though the NXG is almost 5 years old

[flip12 722]

I personally am sort of forced to go newer because my pattern isn't as available as a P88/P92 whatever. I use an E28/P28/Kreps.

It just sounded like you were from that.

I agree with your point though, about not being completely sold on the latest technology. That's where BASE is weak compared to the big three. But they're supposed to be incredibly durable sticks.

[60PlusWinger 82]

I'm not too worried about durability but I don't think I'd ever venture away from the big 4 options (warrior, Easton, CCM, Bauer) people talk about true but never will I especially when they start putting out blades with inserts and stuff like that. I think what does play a part though is feel. To me puck feel with CCM just feels like the blades are dead, Bauer can't seem to go wrong really and Eastons big flaw for consumers is durability for the parents that actually go and spend $250 whatever because their kid wants a new CX.

[flip12 722]

I haven't tried a lot of different brands. I have a stash of blades I'll start trying out soon (yeah, I'm still happy with two-pieces :). It just sounded like you might by chance like BASE, since they aren't as much about marketing new refinements in technology as they are about making sticks that perform and have good feel. If it could rival what you get out of the others, it could be an option. I'm not trying to sway you towards them, just talking through my own thought pattern on why I'm intrigued by them. Especially since I haven't used them compared to others, I wouldn't out and out recommend them. I'm also swayed by the blade patterns they offer, as what I like is extremely hard to find from the big brands.

[60PlusWinger 82]

I haven't tried a lot of different brands. I have a stash of blades I'll start trying out soon (yeah, I'm still happy with two-pieces :). It just sounded like you might by chance like BASE, since they aren't as much about marketing new refinements in technology as they are about making sticks that perform and have good feel. If it could rival what you get out of the others, it could be an option. I'm not trying to sway you towards them, just talking through my own thought pattern on why I'm intrigued by them. Especially since I haven't used them compared to others, I wouldn't out and out recommend them. I'm also swayed by the blade patterns they offer, as what I like is extremely hard to find from the big brands.

It's cool no worries I'm just insanely picky when it comes to sticks

[stick9 903]

A stick is just a tool designed to do a job, the better the tool, the better the job. I truly believe that.

[Chadd 916]

It's a matter of finding a stick that fits your motion. It's the combination that is important.

[flip12 722]

It's a matter of finding a stick that fits your motion. It's the combination that is important.

So concise, and exactly on the mark. I already clicked "like," but just thought I'd spread a little more appreciation on there.

A stick is just a tool designed to do a job, the better the tool, the better the job. I truly believe that.

But "better" is difficult to define. Is it better if a stick gets lighter? It depends where the weight comes from and what your body expects as a tool to be manipulating the puck with high fidelity signal so you don't have to look at it. Is it better if the graphite is selected and engineered to spring back insanely quick? Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on how it synchronizes with each individual's physiological physics model of what they're doing. The body is using all of its parts to perform calculated actions (stride, pass, shoot, pivot, hop, check, etc.). If the stick's newer technology bumps the stick's performance out of the zone of the body's expected, it will increase cognitive load--simply put, just how much you have to consciously think about what you're doing to compensate for a mismatch between the model and the tools you're using to navigate the model.

[Cosmic 178]

No question, it is the stick, in some cases. (and the flex, lie, curve, etc.) I have hardly tried enough sticks to comment on these dual release kick points (like the STX Surgeon) or variable kick points (CCM RBZ) or whatever, but I am certain that the Warrior QR1 and Bauer QRT tapers allow a guy with strong wrists and bad technique (well, quick flick technique, bad is so judgmental, but I definitely do not shoot the way that people teach people to shoot) to rifle shots off hard and quickly, as opposed to sticks like the TotalOne, which do not allow for such enjoyment (of scoring goals, because my shots just come off faster with the QR1 and QRT). A mid kick stick, to me feels so laggy, after using a QR. Sure, the mid kick may generate more power, for those whose shooting motions work with the stick to get harder shots, but my shooting motion does nothing to get more power out of a mid kick.

And sure, like everyone says, "Oh it does not matter to a pro and this or that," well yea, pros are better than us, even if we have the best stick, and they have the worst. I will be the first to agree with that. However, if C level beer leaguers (like myself) are trying to get little advantages here and there from the technology, to work in sync with our game, then I do think that the different technologies can help or hinder such a player.

On the IW product description page for the Warrior QR1, it says:

http://www.icewarehouse.com/Warrior_Covert_QR1_Hockey_Sticks_Sr_/descpage-Q1.html

"Flex Profile:

Super Low Kick Point - provides one of the fastest shot releases on the market, ideal for the "finesse" shooter who primarily uses their wrists to generate shot power or for those who use a quick shooting motion"

I agree 100% with that statement, except for the finesse part. I am definitely not a finesse guy. I just have some strength from having worked out a bit, and can generate pretty good force, quickly, to be able to work in unison pretty well with this stick. Problem I have with Warrior is that I do not like their curve selection, which is too bad. I do love my QRPro OPS more than the stick that I am presently using (Bauer Vapor 1X with BASE blade)- but the blade (BASE Malkin BC71 Pro) on the stick that I am using now just works better with my release.

[Hills 717]

I agree with Cosmic. Being relatively new to the player position of the game I am still trying to figure out what sticks, curves, and flexes I like most and what I can shoot best. I know I do not have a good technique but with my size I can generally get off a pretty hard shot...with the right stick. When I was using the low end composites I could barely raise the puck when I tried to shoot "properly". The flex of the stick just wouldn't give any kick at all, when I got the opportunity to try a high end stick my shot ability (and passing ability) increased dramatically. Shots came off the blade much easier and felt like the sticks were flinging the puck towards the net and I found it much easier to saucer pass compared to the low end sticks.

Another example is the Verbero stick I have been trying out, it is supposed to be a high end stick for a mid range price but 1/10 shots feel somewhat hard compared to the 8/10 from my Warrior DT1LT. I then thought it might just be that I am better suited to the low kick stick, then I used the Warrior HD1 and Tacks stick and both had a similar effect to my shot as the DT1LT did. These differences made it clear to me that the high end sticks do make a difference. I also found different technologies to make a difference, the dagger taper in Warrior DT1/QR series make for a bigger kick and harder release on my shots, but when I used the STX Surgeon and Sherwood Rekker my accuracy was better but shot release was slower, so I would have to pick what trade off I am interested in.

With that said, like others said above a good shooter with a low end stick is going to have a better shot than a bad or mediocre shooter using a top of the line stick.

[Innocent Bystander 5]

A better stick can improve a shot that is already "as good as it's going to get". However, if there is room for improvements on your technique, then that is where the most gain is to be had.

I would go a step further, learn to perfect your shot with a mid to low grade stick. Try to get it off as quick and as hard as your peer players using higher end sticks. THEN get yourself a top shelf twig and see yet another incremental improvement in your shot.

[jdksaves 56]

In my eyes its both the shooter and the stick. You want a stick to work for you, not against you and the flex profile is a big part of that. Every player will have a different technique and like one stick better than another this is why companies are offering multiple profiles.Yes, the buzz words that are associated with each profile are marketing, but In developing sticks I've tried a multitude of different flex profiles and all will preform differently, even if they are slightly different. Its a matter of finding what stick works best for a players technique and trying to stay close to that.

[Chadd 916]

A better stick can improve a shot that is already "as good as it's going to get".

I disagree, somewhat, with that comment. For example, a top of the line Bauer Vapor is a "better" stick than a mid level Supreme. However, my shot is going to be better with that mid level supreme because the profile of the stick fits my shooting motion much better.

[stick9 903]

I agree with Chadd. It's all about finding the right fit.

[kovalchuk71 212]

I agree with Chadd. It's all about finding the right fit.

I'll third this. It's fit and feel preference. I prefer low kick because I like a smaller and faster "snap" from the stick. With a high kick point the stick feels like a rubber band when it's flexing between my hands, and I'm not a fan of that

[IW Team - Chase 184]

I agree.. and disagree. I definitely think getting the right flex profile, especially when you're still mastering your shot, is key. So I agree there but to some degree, I think the quality of a stick will outweighs not having the best-fitted flex profile.

I prefer a low kick or smooth mid kick (nexus, tacks), but I would still play better with a MX3 (high kick and least ideal personally) than a mid to low price point 4052 or X700 stick. Just my .02.