Graf Canada out of business

[IPv6Freely 2092]

I'm hearing people suggesting they're "just moving production off-shore for now", which sounds like nonsense to me. Anyone confirm?

[Hills 712]

I believe they have been offshore for a while now.

[raganblink 82]

Interesting that they only owe Sakurai $369K, and Graf Switzerland $2.6M. I am guessing that is a bulk of the manufacturing that has been unpaid?

 

Meanwhile they claim to have $3.7M in inventory and $866K in accounts receivable (honestly criminally low compared to what Bauer/CCM/Warrior has open with just some retailers, let a lone all of them). Seems like they could have made it work and get out of the hole if they paid off the debt to the bank first. 

 

Makes sense though why they were offering insane discounts on skates though 6 months ago, they definitely needed to get rid of that inventory that they have. 

[chippa13 1844]

One source of that low AR number is a low sales number. AR alone doesn't tell quite the same story as Days in AR.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

19 hours ago, Hills said:

I believe they have been offshore for a while now.

Yea thats what I thought. Maybe just people who refuse to believe they actually ceased operations. 

[Cboy705 2]

I hope this is true. 

ATTENTION: GRAF Hockey was licensed to produce skates in Canada and is currently in receivership being run by a bank until new financing and management is found. www.grafskates.ch is fine and healthy and making #icehockey and #figureskates in KREUZLINGEN, Switzerland. During this time we are now ordering our stock Graf hockey skates and figure boots directly from Switerland. The Graf brand is a global business that is healthy and the Graf family is in the process of bringing back the Graf brand back to NA. Any questions related to the Graf Brand or the availability of any Graf skates, please email us at info@westsideskate.com.

[shooter27 116]

It's absolutely true. If you read the bk documents it's very explicitly only Graf Canada, not Graf CH. People can still get Graf product if you want it, you just need to import it from Switzerland, and pay the applicable taxes of course. 

[gosinger 122]

iirc there were some QC concerns with Graf CA, maybe those will be a thing of the past now? All Graf skates I've seen in the past were from Graf CH and those looked fine.

[Kgbeast 195]

Here is a copy/paste from an email from Graf this morning

 

Quote

We will be able to restart the distribution in NA and Canada within a couple of weeks

 

[Kgbeast 195]

one more copy/paste from another email from Charles Graf

 

Quote

Recently we have started to produce 4mm taller runners  for Cobra 3000 and 5000 only

...not for the Seven-XX holders. 

[Troubadour 46]

What does this mean!? Graf is back!? What's going on!?

[iceman8310 105]

38 minutes ago, Troubadour said:

What does this mean!? Graf is back!? What's going on!?

Graf Europe still exists

[Troubadour 46]

4 minutes ago, iceman8310 said:

Graf Europe still exists

 

Oh, is it literally Graf Europe is distributing to NA now? Also, did anyone else notice they said North America and Canada... Canada is in North America.

[Kgbeast 195]

39 minutes ago, Troubadour said:

What does this mean!? Graf is back!? What's going on!?

Well, they always been in Europe (it is an European company that had a subsidiary in Canada). I thought they just pulled out of the NA market in lieu of ridiculous competition and failure of the Graf-Canada, but it looks like they are ok and still working on their product lines and want to comeback to NA market... Graf AG (the name of the European company) is still one of the top Hockey and Figure Skating manufacturers in Europe.  So it is likely that Graf will continue on in USA and Canada, but perhaps not as a manufacturing company, but as an Importer.

 

The "NA and Canada" thing was instigated by me, guy just used the same terminology  when he replied to me. I wrote USA and Canada at first, then changed USA to NA... call me stupid. 

 

 

 

[RickDC 24]

13 minutes ago, Kgbeast said:

The "NA and Canada" thing was instigated by me, guy just used the same terminology  when he replied to me. I wrote USA and Canada at first, then changed USA to NA... call me stupid. 

 

We won't call you stupid.. if Trump wins the US election, I think us, here in Canada, will opt out of being in North America.. ;-) So it's fair to say - North America and Canada ;-) 

[flip12 714]

Or maybe on account of CETA, as Switzerland is part of the EU's single market, trade with Canada will soon be much more seamless than with the rest of North America--though I imagine that means mostly the US and not the other countries to the south.

[Thinkingjack 51]

This is great news because I finally found a goalie skate that feels amazing and happens to be a pair of Graf G75

 

its too bad graf did away with the G75 player skate model, on a bright note, this lets me try to find some NT5000 holders for my custom steel and c an throw those in on my other pair of skates

[Kgbeast 195]

I am pretty sure G75 players are still on the menu. G75 goalies are also... Talking about goalie skates, is not Graf is who came up with skates shells for the goalie skates among few other goalie skates specific improvements. 

 

I am glad that they might be coming back to NA. Perhaps, the quality is better this way too.

[Cavs019 708]

Westside skate is where I get my skates sharpened in NYC. They've always been a Graf heavy shop- I wonder what the linkage is. 

[flip12 714]

They also do a lot of figure skate sales at Westside, right? It could be that overlap leads them to buy into the Graf philosophy.

[mickz 107]

4 hours ago, Cavs019 said:

Westside skate is where I get my skates sharpened in NYC. They've always been a Graf heavy shop- I wonder what the linkage is. 

 

Probably due to Graf's figure skates.  The figure skating boutiques here will also carry their hockey skates.

[shooter27 116]

19 hours ago, Kgbeast said:

Well, they always been in Europe (it is an European company that had a subsidiary in Canada). I thought they just pulled out of the NA market in lieu of ridiculous competition and failure of the Graf-Canada,

 

 

 

This is incorrect. Graf Canada was not a subsidiary of Graf AG, it was a separate company with a manufacturing and distribution agreement.  If you read the bankruptcy docs you'll see that Graf AG is one of Graft Canada's largest creditors due to a $2M loan. I don't know what's happening now, whether Graf AG is stepping into the NA market or if Graf Canada has been able to secure DIP financing. 

[Kgbeast 195]

48 minutes ago, shooter27 said:

This is incorrect. Graf Canada was not a subsidiary of Graf AG, it was a separate company with a ...

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/Research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapid=1680286

 

... 

 

As for the second part of your comment, email is from Graf AG and the guy says "we...", but then again he would have said that if Graf Canada was their subsidiary.

[shooter27 116]

Given that Graf AG is the largest creditor of Graf Canada, it's quite possible they now own Graf Canada, but they didn't previously. You wouldn't put a subsidiary into bankruptcy because of an inter-company debt. 

[Kgbeast 195]

4 hours ago, shooter27 said:

Given that Graf AG is the largest creditor of Graf Canada, it's quite possible they now own Graf Canada, but they didn't previously. You wouldn't put a subsidiary into bankruptcy because of an inter-company debt. 

 

... what you saying is based upon a quick glance at one of the documents available in public record. If you look again, you will see that the largest creditor, secured creditor, and the party that initiated the suit, is Bank of Montreal. Also if you look at court service list, you will immediately see that Graf Canada LTD is a subsidiary of Graf Skates AG. I am also not sure why it is so upsetting to you that Graf Canada was a subsidiary. The still were independently operated and in every respect, were a company with their own vision and potential. Graf Canada was instrumental in design of MCI line, they also came up with and began to market their own line - PeakSpeed.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Kgbeast