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7 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

I mean, I guess if having your R&D team decide to sit on their hands year after year, then sure. They're awesome.

I was going to say... Vaughn has an R&D team? I thought that went away when Pete Smith left :laugh:

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13 hours ago, chipster said:

http://vaughnhockey.com/product/goal-skates/gx3-goal-skate/ 

Looks an awful lot like a Graf goalie skate, I think this may answer Vaughn's overall intention. In other words, if they distribute Graf skates from Europe, it seems a side business, as they are now officially in the goalie skate business, producing their own using what appears to be Graf's equipment. Pretty good turn around time I must say, the R&D people at Vaughn really are amazing.

Graf goalie skates do not look like this, but these do share color scheme with peakspeed players. Does the description suggests that it is foe carbonfiber? It is pretty lame if it does. Why make it look like carbonfiber if it is not?

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I have a pair of 735's and never had any issues. Graf made some great traditional leather skates but just didn't keep up with the industry leaders when it came to new innovations. I found their skates very heavy compared to other major competitors models even though their durability was probably the best compared to their competition. That unfortunately doesn't keep you competitive on the ice when players using lighter and more highly performing equipment. When they finally did come around to composite and lighter designs it was much too late, the cow had already left the barn because they had left the door open to their major competition too long. Graf  still has a market in Europe but they blew it in North America. Too bad, competition is good and creates better products in the long run.

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2 hours ago, Buzz_LightBeer said:

SOunds like their retail offerings will all be imported, with only customs being domestically made

As much as I've always argued against the "only domestically made products can be of high quality" suggestion, that doesn't help them in their battle against their reputation.

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8 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

As much as I've always argued against the "only domestically made products can be of high quality" suggestion, that doesn't help them in their battle against their reputation.

Graf Canada wasn't domestic though.

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20 hours ago, duch said:

I found their skates very heavy compared to other major competitors models even though their durability was probably the best compared to their competition. 

that's what I've always loved about Graf. my last pair I bought in 2000 and finally retired them 2 years ago. replaced them with 703s from the same era I found on eBay barely worn for $90. not to mention how comfortable they are after bake and break in. even after 15 years my last pair were still so comfortable and there wasn't really any boot breakdown just the exterior of the skate was hammered and ripping from blocking shots and whatever else. thankfully with my new pair I've been wearing skatefenders with them from day 1

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Quality of product does not depend on country where it is made but on people it is made by. You can find poor quality in USA and Canada. All it takes is an inconsiderate management that breeds not caring work force. In case of Graf Canada, in last 3 or 4 years of their existance, quality of product produced in Canada was often crapier than of the lines made in China. I hope people would put that behind by now. Graf Canada is dead and gone, people who ran it into the ground are no longer associated with Graf and Claude Lemieux is finally properly retired and exhibits no efforts to get involved in any of the hockey equipment manufacturing efforts. So we should take a breather an move on. Discussions like in this thread are targeted not at a company that makes the skates, but at an assumption that somehow a tarnished company's name will forever plague the quality of products produced under it. If Vaughn, would have changed the name on these product from Graf to Vortex or some shit like that, their products would have been looked at with fair level of optimism such as the case with Verbero. I do not know of the quality level, nor technology, or how long they will last. Until someone buys a pair of Vaughn produced pair of Graf skates (foreign or domestic), play with them for 2-3 month, and then comeback here and writes his review, all this talk is just fumes.

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On 5/21/2017 at 2:32 PM, Kgbeast said:

Quality of product does not depend on country where it is made but on people it is made by. You can find poor quality in USA and Canada. All it takes is an inconsiderate management that breeds not caring work force. In case of Graf Canada, in last 3 or 4 years of their existance, quality of product produced in Canada was often crapier than of the lines made in China. I hope people would put that behind by now. Graf Canada is dead and gone, people who ran it into the ground are no longer associated with Graf and Claude Lemieux is finally properly retired and exhibits no efforts to get involved in any of the hockey equipment manufacturing efforts. So we should take a breather an move on. Discussions like in this thread are targeted not at a company that makes the skates, but at an assumption that somehow a tarnished company's name will forever plague the quality of products produced under it. If Vaughn, would have changed the name on these product from Graf to Vortex or some shit like that, their products would have been looked at with fair level of optimism such as the case with Verbero. I do not know of the quality level, nor technology, or how long they will last. Until someone buys a pair of Vaughn produced pair of Graf skates (foreign or domestic), play with them for 2-3 month, and then comeback here and writes his review, all this talk is just fumes.

I agree 100% with most you said except the Graf name part. Graf is not dead & gone if they keep the name. If they keep it they want the brand equity behind it because there is a pedigree to that name & it has its pros & cons. If Vaughn wants all of us to forget the past they will chose a new nameto have the public oooing and ahhing the newest iteration of skates from a new company but the general public will need to be educated on this new brand as it will compete against the established Bauer & CCM skates at likely a similar price point.

You are 100% right that the old management & culture will be gone, but that doesn't change a brand's image. If they stick with the Graf name, they will need to overcome the past history and convince the public to give the brand another shot. If they change the name, it will be as if it has a new start but that also means building up a reputation to convince buyers to give the new kid on the block a try. 

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58 minutes ago, Axxion89 said:

I agree 100% with most you said except the Graf name part. Graf is not dead & gone if they keep the name. If they keep it they want the brand equity behind it because there is a pedigree to that name & it has its pros & cons. If Vaughn wants all of us to forget the past they will chose a new nameto have the public oooing and ahhing the newest iteration of skates from a new company but the general public will need to be educated on this new brand as it will compete against the established Bauer & CCM skates at likely a similar price point.

You are 100% right that the old management & culture will be gone, but that doesn't change a brand's image. If they stick with the Graf name, they will need to overcome the past history and convince the public to give the brand another shot. If they change the name, it will be as if it has a new start but that also means building up a reputation to convince buyers to give the new kid on the block a try. 

You explained my point much better than I was able to. 

If you're going to keep the name that has a negative connotation to it, then you have to accept that you have an uphill climb ahead of you. 

Hopefully they change opinions quickly and manage to stick around. 

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On 5/22/2017 at 4:59 PM, IPv6Freely said:

You explained my point much better than I was able to. 

If you're going to keep the name that has a negative connotation to it, then you have to accept that you have an uphill climb ahead of you. 

Hopefully they change opinions quickly and manage to stick around. 

I am reviving this thread as enough years have passed and changes to what is happening in the marketplace.

As mentioned in my other thread, I finally found a pair of Grafs I felt confident and comfortable enough in to replace my over 10 year old G70s, and based upon the different Graf models I tried on, that their quality is no longer an issue.  All of the skates I tried on were properly made, no crooked holders or misfitted castings. The comfort is very good, and I am hopeful I can get a good 10 years out of these, too.

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Correct! 
the swiss graf skates has allways had a superior quality compared to any other skate manufacturer. The only problem is, -the skates are made in swizerland and priced after that. 

among the pro level players in Europe, swiss made graf skates is still very popular, especially in Central Europe where Graf skates can be found in just about every sports store that sell hockey equipment.
 

 

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22 hours ago, iceman8310 said:

Graf Switzerland is licensing to Graf Vaughn.  Is this correct?  From my understand Graf Switzerland was always better.  Please correct me if I'm wrong

I can't say as I have not seen a recent pair of Swiss-made Grafs in person, but the current Graf/Vaughn line I have are superbly constructed. I'm a leather jacket guy who knows what high-end stitching/manufacturing looks like, and the Grafs I've seen in person for fitting purposes from Vaughn such as the G755s, G735, PK7900s have been first class manufactured. I've heard they are "designed in Canada, made in Asia" like many things today, but that does not mean the fabrication is not top notch. 

Would it be nice to get on a plane and fly to Switzerland and see Graf's mothership in person, sure - but given that no hockey news media or anyone else is sending me it probably won't happen for a while, sadly. 😉  

Though I've heard it is possible to order from Switzerland for shipping to north america, but given that Vaughn and Graf are now closely partnered, it probably makes the most sense to reach out to Vaughn if you see a pair of skates on the www.grafhockey.com website that say "made for Europe" that you want to get your hands on.  Maybe they can be imported, or manufactured for you by Vaughn/Graf Canada...

Edited by nystromshairstylist

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If you have a retailer for Graf, they can order the Swiss-made Grafs. The only issue is that it depends on the retailer what the payment arrangement will be. I tried to order G9000s a while ago, and one retailer said I would just have to guess my size and buy them and he would order and I could pick them up. Different retailer fitted me and then ordered me 2 sizes of G7s and I picked the ones I wanted. Spoke to this retailer last summer and he was willing to do the same thing, but I ended up moving away before I could get to it

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Interesting updates... so is Graf/Vaughn doing a Volkswagen thing?  There's an only available in Europe lineup and there's a made for North America lineup?

Fun anecdote - I can count on one hand how many pairs of Graf skates I've seen over here... it's about one or two.  We were even down in Zurich for an Ivanov camp last summer and no one was wearing them.

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14 hours ago, iceman8310 said:

I wonder how now Graf/Vaughn compared to Swiss-made grafs in terms of quality

I would say they both feel very good for the top end models, can't say anything about lower level models. It's hard to say if the Swiss actually feel better or if it's the placebo effect. They're both well-made skates

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