CCM Sticks - A low point?

[colins 246]

 

I've been a fan of CCM sticks since around the time the original Tacks and RBZ came out. Between myself and my two teenage sons we've got 6 or 7 CCM/Reebok sticks in our current collection. Some have been repaired but in general between the original Tacks, RBZ, RBZ2, Ultra Tacks and Super Fast, all of the CCM sticks we've owned have lasted well into their expected lifespan, and the performance and quality have been as good or better than any other sticks we've owned.

Until now. The Super Tacks was the first high end CCM stick we've tried that fell well below expectations. Despite warnings from others who owned a Super Tacks, we bought one due to a promotion during a tournament in January. After just a few practices and 2 games, the blade is cracked at the top near the hosel, on the bottom near the heel, and also at the toe. It's unplayable. Checking reviews online, for both the Super Tacks and the newest Ribcor Trigger ASY, it seems many customers are having problems with premature blade failure on the current crop of top end CCM sticks.

Which brings me to the RBZ Revolution. Heavy, gimmicky, this stick reeks of the spectacular failure that was the Easton EQ50. I don't know if I've seen a single high end player using a Revolution with the blade insert. The feeling in my hands at the store is just terrible - blade heavy due to the metal insert and just 'bulky' feeling in general.

So here's my dilemma... I want a stick with a genuine P40 curve. I like the short, closed, deep-mid curve that CCM has in the P40 pattern. But with the Super Tacks and Trigger having very poor blade durability, and the Revolution being a total bust (IMHO), what's out there for a reliable CCM stick today to get my P40 fix?

Don't get me wrong - I'm still a CCM fan, I loved the original Tacks and the Ultra Tacks (still usng a P19 prostock Ultra Tacks) - but I've even tried a Tacks 6092 from the new series, and the blade on that stick started to 'crunch' and go soft within 60 days of owning it.

Do I need to wait for Super Tacks 2.0 to get my P40 fix? Any other options - maybe finding a genuine P40 pro stock? Anyone else really dissappointed with the current CCM offerings?

Here's video of the stick damage I'm talking about. Best seen at 0:19, 0:29 and 0:42 of the video. You can see the shaft has hardly any chips or paint damage, it was literally used in 3 or 4 practices and 2 games. Cat tax included.

 

 

colins

[JSK81 400]

The Super Tacks had blade durability problems but I haven't heard or read anything similar about the Trigger. In fact, in my personal opinion the Trigger could be the best stick I've ever used.

[kmfdm86 112]

Have you tried the W88? The new Covert QRL has held up pretty well to all the horrible abuse I've put it through

[EBondo 233]

My first Super Tacks stick got a giant gash on the top of the blade the first time I used it (I imagine I got hacked pretty hard, but don't remember it happening - next shot, snap), and I found out that apparently the first couple batches of Super Tacks did have durability issues with the blades. I believe the warranty replacement I got from CCM was a different batch, as the stick has a tiny Tacks logo below the pattern information that wasn't on my original stick. So far, it's held up great and has taken a LOT of abuse in the few months I've had it.

[puckpilot 312]

Can't really comment much on the new sticks durability, but from my understanding, just because a stick is a higher end stick doesn't mean it's as durable or more durable as the ones at come in at a lower price point. Often higher end sticks trade off durability for performance. Now that doesn't mean the stick should fall apart after 2 games, because it shouldn't. I have a CCM Ribcor 47K. I haven't used it in a game but I've taken a few hundred shots with it during stick and puck, and no signs of wear. 

[colins 246]

7 hours ago, kmfdm86 said:

Have you tried the W88? The new Covert QRL has held up pretty well to all the horrible abuse I've put it through

Yes, the P88/W88 is my fallback choice. But I like the shorter length and square-ish toe of the P40 over the P88.  We've (I say we because it's me and my two teenage sons and we often share/swap sticks, with me using whatever they aren't using, lol) got a QRL Pro that has held up really great, but it's a W03 curve. My oldest son was on an Easton CX E3 / Warrior QRL Pro W03 kick for a while, but has since switched over to the P40 and was really liking it until the Super Tacks failed prematurely.

colins

[colins 246]

7 hours ago, JSK81 said:

The Super Tacks had blade durability problems but I haven't heard or read anything similar about the Trigger. In fact, in my personal opinion the Trigger could be the best stick I've ever used.

 

That's encouraging. Reviews on some of the big retailer's sites seemed to tell the same story on blade durability of the current Ribcor line as what I saw with the Super Tacks. Maybe they changed something in the blade construction mid-cycle and things are better now. Hard to say for sure, but I'll have a look for a deal on a Trigger or a 49K.

 

colins

[colins 246]

7 hours ago, EBondo said:

My first Super Tacks stick got a giant gash on the top of the blade the first time I used it (I imagine I got hacked pretty hard, but don't remember it happening - next shot, snap), and I found out that apparently the first couple batches of Super Tacks did have durability issues with the blades. I believe the warranty replacement I got from CCM was a different batch, as the stick has a tiny Tacks logo below the pattern information that wasn't on my original stick. So far, it's held up great and has taken a LOT of abuse in the few months I've had it.

 

Thanks for the info. I'm hoping to get a warranty replacement for this one despite it being closer to 60 days than the 30 day coverage. I'll report back if I do and if the replacement seems to have a different blade construction.

 

colins

[colins 246]

The other disappointment I've got with CCM this year, stick wise, was the elimination of the P19 curve. They must have had thousands of P19 customers out there, and then in a single generation of retail sticks, they completely eliminate it from all their product lines.

To me, that's disrespecting/disregarding your client base. With no retail P19 in any of the 3 CCM stick lines this year, that strands lots of hockey players, forcing their hand to move to the new Crosby P29 or to change to another curve in the CCM lineup.

If they think they have a better curve in the P29, why not introduce it on 1 of the stick families (Like the Tacks line for example), and see if people gravitate to it over the P19 (which could have stayed in the Ribcor / RBZ lines). That way at least customers have the option of replacing their broken P19's from the previous generation with a new stick, and a more gradual migration to the P29 can occur if the sales end up reflecting it becoming more popular.

 

colins

 

[215BroadStBullies610 435]

I've used both the RBZ Superfast and Speedburner. The blade durability was really my only complaint when it came to this particular lineup. Maybe it has improved with the Revolution. For me, I've given up on the RBZ line. For as good as the stick performs, the blade issues are too big to ignore (for me at least). 

[Jamarquan 201]

I think the P19 is coming back on the Super Tacks 2.0, according to HockeyMonkey EU.

[215BroadStBullies610 435]

To be fair, I've only used the "top of the line" Superfast and Speedburner models. Maybe the lower end models hold up better blade-wise? Who knows. I just switched back to Bauer after using CCM/Easton for years. I can't tell anyone NOT to use CCM sticks but, in MSH spirit, share my experience(s).

11 minutes ago, Jamarquan said:

Gonna have to return my 260 then. 

 

[nutters 218]

8 hours ago, colins said:

 

 

Which brings me to the RBZ Revolution. Heavy, gimmicky, this stick reeks of the spectacular failure that was the Easton EQ50. I don't know if I've seen a single high end player using a Revolution with the blade insert. The feeling in my hands at the store is just terrible - blade heavy due to the metal insert and just 'bulky' feeling in general.

 

 

A lot of gimmicks do not make it to the pros. Why the O-Stick failed (that and durability which made it untrustworthy for pros), the ribs on the ribcor (some keep it) and pumps on the skates. Even early Warrior gear appealing to teens with their stick designs and names for their tech made it unappealing for pros.

But like everyone else has said try P40 variants from other companies and maybe your current collection will soon be represented by another brand.

[Miseaujeu 291]

1 hour ago, colins said:

Yes, the P88/W88 is my fallback choice. But I like the shorter length and square-ish toe of the P40 over the P88.  We've (I say we because it's me and my two teenage sons and we often share/swap sticks, with me using whatever they aren't using, lol) got a QRL Pro that has held up really great, but it's a W03 curve. My oldest son was on an Easton CX E3 / Warrior QRL Pro W03 kick for a while, but has since switched over to the P40 and was really liking it until the Super Tacks failed prematurely.

colins

Thanks for sharing your story.  

Hoping you can give Warrior another shot between you and your sons.  W88 is a comparable curve, but we also have W16 Karlsson that has a more squared-off toe.  Maybe check those two our side-by-side in the QRL.  I'm sure you'll be satisfied with our weight and no nonsense performance of the QRL...we're switching players to our brand every day.  

Good luck!

[icewalker_bg 126]

Colins, 

i feel you. I love CCM sticks and their curves (p19 and p29), but the supertacks IS a disaster, it doesnt make any sense how bad the blade durability is,  same goes for the RBZ line, CCM shame on you.

If f it can help here is what i did to replace CCM since i cannot find any Ultra Tacks anymore (one of my favorite sticks ever) ---- I have for the past months slowly transitioned to the 2017 nexus line, the feel and durability is incredible, my ultra tacks get chipped so fast. The nexus just takes the beating and looks new. I dont get it. The flex profile is very similar too, easy to load, recieving passes is flawless too. 

I have tried the previous years nexus and did not like it that much, 2017 is much better for me, might be the new thin taper.

If you decide to go the Nexus route, you will notice the balance is very slightly worse than CCM tacks line. Even tho my Bauer come in at 415grams taped and my CCM at 430grams, the Bauer feels slightly blade heavy compared to the CCM, my guess would be the tall blade  and extra material around throat add up.  Ill try to take some pics later on to you see what i mean. 

[215BroadStBullies610 435]

Interestingly enough, I just got the Bauer Nexus 1N stick ha. I've heard good things about it so Thursday night will be my first skate with it.

[icewalker_bg 126]

I am using a N9000 because I am not that crazy to spend 339.99$ + tax on a hockey stick, but I am sure the 1N 2017 will go down as one the great ones like the One95, people seem to enjoy it that much. 

Blade thickness:

 

[Cavs019 708]

The P19 to P29 swap is a pretty obvious move from a business strategy perspective. If you're trying to poach Warrior and Bauer users, offering a clone of the most popular pattern available at retail is extremely logical.

With the name of the game being SKU consolidation it makes absolutely no sense for CCM to continue stocking the P19 when that sale will just be cannibalized by the exponentially more popular P92/P29 9 out of 10 times.  IMO, single brand patterns like the P14, P106, CCM P46, and P19 will all be going the way of the dodo very soon. Given the state of the industry at retail right now scalability > appealing to a small niche of consumers, as sad as that may seem.

On that note, I'll go pour one out for my Drury curve. 

[colins 246]

 

I'll add one more gripe to the list while I'm on my 2016/2017 CCM stick lineup soapbox. This is a minor complaint, but it irritates me because I've seen the behaviour of kids and parents in the early years of minor hockey and this move by CCM doesn't help the development of the game, or the challenge minor hockey coaches have to teach fundamentals during a kid's first few years of playing the sport.

And that's the McDavid curve. Not the curve itself, but the choice to put McDavid's name on the P28. I get that the P28 style pattern is on a big popularity upswing, but when you have young kids who see McDavid on the highlights as a new star of the NHL, they're going to want mom or dad to buy that Junior Super Tacks McDavid for them at the shop. Whatever you think of the P28, it's not a pattern for young kids to learn the fundamentals of the game on. McDavid himself doesn't use nearly that extreme a curve (I think his is more like a P45), and for the majority of the biggest stars in the league (Crosby, Toews, Matthews) with the best all-around games, they use much less aggressive / less open / less toe curve patterns than the P28.

So CCM - why put McDavid's name on the P28? Walk into a rink today with young kids just learning the game and count the number of P28 curves in their hands. It must drive coaches nuts trying to teach fundamentals like stick handling, backhands, making good passes, etc with a beginner using a P28 because he wants to 'be like McDavid'. 

There's an argument that say mom or dad should know better, but the reality is a lot of hockey parents simply don't know better, and if they see a CCM and it says McDavid on it and little Johnny says that's what he wants.. well that's what he gets.

I think I'm done ragging on CCM now - to be fair, I thought they were doing a brilliant job in the stick department up until last year. I hope they get back to the same level soon.

 

colins

[HarpGuy 12]

Then what the hell is going to happen to my beloved P38 curve? I noticed NONE in a huge hockey shop here the other day. I'm getting worried. 

Warrior is too damned confusing. Qrl is $100, QRL1 is $339 or whatever. It's bullisht. 

[Jamarquan 201]

56 minutes ago, Cavs019 said:

The P19 to P29 swap is a pretty obvious move from a business strategy perspective. If you're trying to poach Warrior and Bauer users, offering a clone of the most popular pattern available at retail is extremely logical.

With the name of the game being SKU consolidation it makes absolutely no sense for CCM to continue stocking the P19 when that sale will just be cannibalized by the exponentially more popular P92/P29 9 out of 10 times.  IMO, single brand patterns like the P14, P106, CCM P46, and P19 will all be going the way of the dodo very soon. Given the state of the industry at retail right now scalability > appealing to a small niche of consumers, as sad as that may seem.

On that note, I'll go pour one out for my Drury curve. 

P02 and similar as well. A number of brands still have it, but not for long. Seems like a neat curve to try though. 

[Miseaujeu 291]

46 minutes ago, HarpGuy said:

Warrior is too damned confusing. Qrl is $100, QRL1 is $339 or whatever. It's bullisht. 

There is no QRL1.  Just QRL.  Hope that helps.

I take pride in how simple our line has become (compared to the past).  If I'm not correct, try and figure out this line of product.  

Dolomite HD, Bentley, Dolomite Spyne, Kronik, Syko, Hitman and Johnson.

[HarpGuy 12]

17 minutes ago, Miseaujeu said:

There is no QRL1.  Just QRL.  Hope that helps.

I take pride in how simple our line has become (compared to the past).  If I'm not correct, try and figure out this line of product.  

Dolomite HD, Bentley, Dolomite Spyne, Kronik, Syko, Hitman and Johnson.

You may be right, I just would look at the sticks online and see wildly different prices for QR whatevers. There were definitely two similarly named models.

I like Warriors, don't get me wrong, but the old models had me confused as isht. Maybe I will grab a Warrior in a W16 curve soon.

Maybe you can extend a discount in hopes of landing a returning customer. JK. Seriously. I'm jk. I will take a discount for the Youth Hockey teams that need it & play on a local rink though - -

 http://www.yonkersny.gov/government/departments/parks-recreation-conservation/parks-facilities/murray-s-skating-center/ice-hockey  <-- referenced youth program. 

 

p.s. ya know what though, from a marketing perspective, having two dolomite's could be a bad thing. Just find a new name for one of em. 

[Hills 712]

I mean the naming is pretty easy...

Last gen: Warrior QR1, QR Pro, QR3, QR4, QR5

This gen: Warrior QRL, QRL Pro, QRL3, QRL4, QRL5.

They are named similarly in the way that companies update a brands naming conventions...

[colins 246]

1 hour ago, HarpGuy said:

Then what the hell is going to happen to my beloved P38 curve? I noticed NONE in a huge hockey shop here the other day. I'm getting worried. 

Warrior is too damned confusing. Qrl is $100, QRL1 is $339 or whatever. It's bullisht. 

 

I'll give Warrior credit, they have simplified things over the last couple years. But yeah, you still see some unsold QR1 sticks alongside the QRL, and if you didn't know one was this year's model and the other was last year's model, that can be confusing. Tacks, Ultra Tacks, Super Tacks, now Super Tacks 2.0? When's Super-Duper Tacks coming out? It gets silly doesn't it.

Back in the day you had the Sherwood 5030, Titan TPM 2020, Bauer Supreme 3030 - and they were there, year after year, looking the same and performing the same. We had it made! :-)

I think Bauer is actually on to something with the '17 added to the same sticks as last year's models. Maybe it's seen as 'boring', I don't know, but I think you just tweak the design a bit, put the model year on it, and otherwise keep the 'family' theme the same year after year so we can get some consistency from one year to the next when buying our retail sticks.

 

colins