The endless changing of skates.....

[Sniper9 530]

31 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

None of the skates I have used were baked prior to me so that is not the issue. Also, as I mentioned, they are not significantly altered "franken skates." It is absolutely exhausting both mentally and physically changing all the time. Every time I change it throws all of my body mechanics out of whack which also does more than affect my skating, it changes my vision on the ice, stick handling and shooting. I know from playing semi-pro you will always play best when you are thinking least about what you're wearing and focusing solely on the game. 

It seems the best route is to just suck it up and try a pair of True skates. I have pretty much exhausted all of my options other than paying Bauer/CCM to build a last of my foot and build a skate specifically around that last. 

Even with my true skates I finally found what felt best doing the following;

- ditching the stock insole system and using the superfeet carbon pros alone

- swapping out the step holders to Tuuk ls2s. 

There will always be some type of tweaking. 

Even a custom skate won't feel perfect right away because you've gotten somewhat used to the last skates you wore even if they didn't feel the best. The true skates also require an adjustment period because they feel completely different than traditional skates, but the amount you play in a month, you should be able to adjust pretty fast. I think you know what you should do.... But it's a matter of money at this point. 

1000 bucks is a significant amount of money but I like to compare that with people who buy coffee and eat out every day, their ice hockey league fees, gym memberships etc. 1000 for skates that fit you right and last even five years is a good investment vs all the other expenses we have in our daily lives these days. 250 bucks a year on skates for five years is less than a dollar a day. My last Bauer's lasted 7 years and I could have still kept using them if I didn't decide to treat myself to get trues just for the heck of it.  

[flip12 715]

@Nicholas G which model(s) of Graf did you skate in and what is it that feels inhibiting in other skates?

I ask because I've also found it hard to skate in anything other than Graf unless there was a significant hinge crease below the third eyelet. I've found it hard to replicate the full range of motion, both forward flex and ankle aversion, I had in Graf 703's in anything else I've tried. I've skipped over a lot of the more recent skates, but have tried off and on to make a pair of MLX work. For me, the feeling of the foot in the boot in a Van Horne skate is the closest to that of the right Graf boot. The skating experience feels different. It could be fine for you, but for me something is still missing.

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 hour ago, aintitthelife98 said:

Did you bake the 70Ks? I will say on my 68Ks the fit and feel pre and post bake was fairly dramatic. They felt ok to me pre-bake but post-bake they really shaped to my foot and felt great. 

Yes, I baked them and skated in them a few times. Entirely disliked them. Sold them and the person who bought them also didn't like them. Those 70ks have been bought and sold about 4 times on SidelineSwap since I had them. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

44 minutes ago, flip12 said:

@Nicholas G which model(s) of Graf did you skate in and what is it that feels inhibiting in other skates?

I ask because I've also found it hard to skate in anything other than Graf unless there was a significant hinge crease below the third eyelet. I've found it hard to replicate the full range of motion, both forward flex and ankle aversion, I had in Graf 703's in anything else I've tried. I've skipped over a lot of the more recent skates, but have tried off and on to make a pair of MLX work. For me, the feeling of the foot in the boot in a Van Horne skate is the closest to that of the right Graf boot. The skating experience feels different. It could be fine for you, but for me something is still missing.

The Graf Supra 707 were the last pair of skates I had that felt "right." 

[VegasHockey 1280]

56 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

Even with my true skates I finally found what felt best doing the following;

- ditching the stock insole system and using the superfeet carbon pros alone

- swapping out the step holders to Tuuk ls2s. 

There will always be some type of tweaking. 

Even a custom skate won't feel perfect right away because you've gotten somewhat used to the last skates you wore even if they didn't feel the best. The true skates also require an adjustment period because they feel completely different than traditional skates, but the amount you play in a month, you should be able to adjust pretty fast. I think you know what you should do.... But it's a matter of money at this point. 

1000 bucks is a significant amount of money but I like to compare that with people who buy coffee and eat out every day, their ice hockey league fees, gym memberships etc. 1000 for skates that fit you right and last even five years is a good investment vs all the other expenses we have in our daily lives these days. 250 bucks a year on skates for five years is less than a dollar a day. My last Bauer's lasted 7 years and I could have still kept using them if I didn't decide to treat myself to get trues just for the heck of it.  

I likely would use SpeedPlates as I find they work best for my very high arch. I am unsure about the holders but will use Step steel regardless of which holder I select. The VH/True/Step holder is very stiff and rigid so people have said stiff skates and the stiff holder do not play nicely together. I likely will use a Tuuk Edge holder with Step steel. I also will probably install some type of foam in the toe cap. I like my toes forced flat. I have always made my own foams for skates, even before PowerFoot was around and will likely do that with anything I end up with. I like my foot entirely locked in, no slippage, no negative space. Depending on how the True skates are pitched I will either need to pitch my profile, ProSharp Quad 2, slightly or add a small heel lift. 

I entirely understand that everything will require some adjustment. Unless it is genuinely made for you, by yourself or you are doing the design, it will never be 100% perfect using off the shelf pieces. Regardless of how "custom" people claim things to be they are still built using manufactured materials. 

[ChrisS8899 3]

9 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

I likely would use SpeedPlates as I find they work best for my very high arch. I am unsure about the holders but will use Step steel regardless of which holder I select. The VH/True/Step holder is very stiff and rigid so people have said stiff skates and the stiff holder do not play nicely together. I likely will use a Tuuk Edge holder with Step steel. I also will probably install some type of foam in the toe cap. I like my toes forced flat. I have always made my own foams for skates, even before PowerFoot was around and will likely do that with anything I end up with. I like my foot entirely locked in, no slippage, no negative space. Depending on how the True skates are pitched I will either need to pitch my profile, ProSharp Quad 2, slightly or add a small heel lift. 

I entirely understand that everything will require some adjustment. Unless it is genuinely made for you, by yourself or you are doing the design, it will never be 100% perfect using off the shelf pieces. Regardless of how "custom" people claim things to be they are still built using manufactured materials. 

What was your feelings with the ft1's & the 17 1x's ? negative space/and or heel lock issues? 

[VegasHockey 1280]

33 minutes ago, ChrisS8899 said:

What was your feelings with the ft1's & the 17 1x's ? negative space/and or heel lock issues? 

I thought the Mako II and FT1 were generally the best skates of all that I have used.

The Mako II fit and range of movement is phenomenal. It just lacked more support in the quarter package. I loved how it wrapped your foot and had zero negative space. I also loved the tow cap on the Mako II.

The FT1 was also really nice. Light. Stiff but allowed some flexibility. It could benefit from being slightly more flexible though but I understand the type of player the skate is designed for. Absolutely not the 35-year-old has been. 

With the FT1, I could never adjust to the skate. When I first got them I installed a heel lift, as I like a forward pitch. This made me feel like I was on too much of an incline. I removed the heel lift and then the skates felt very flat. Too much steel in contact with the ice. Changed profiles from a ProSharp Quad 2 to a Quad 1 and then 0. Still didn't feel right. Removed the SB 4.0 holder and installed an LS Edge holder with Step steel and it initially felt better but after using them a few times I again felt very flat-footed. 

Changed insoles, Super Feet, SpeedPlates, CCM, Sidas, and ultimately ended up with the following.

7D FT1 with LS holders, 272 steel, Bauer SpeedPlates, Quad 2 profile, 1/8" heel lift, do not lace the top eyelet. That's what I have been using until this last week when I sold them.

Now I am back to using a pair of Super Tacks, retail model, 7D, that I have had laying around for a while now. Trying to figure out what to do next. 

[stick9 891]

I noticed you use the word “feel” as oppose to “fit” in your posts. That to me doesnt sound like your issue is with fit, it’s more about function. Sounds to me like you’re trying to get a modern composite boot to feel and perform like an old school Graf. Maybe it’s time to just buy some Graf’s...

[marka 526]

18 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

I thought the Mako II and FT1 were generally the best skates of all that I have used.

The Mako II fit and range of movement is phenomenal. It just lacked more support in the quarter package. I loved how it wrapped your foot and had zero negative space. I also loved the tow cap on the Mako II.

The FT1 was also really nice. Light. Stiff but allowed some flexibility. It could benefit from being slightly more flexible though but I understand the type of player the skate is designed for. Absolutely not the 35-year-old has been. 

With the FT1, I could never adjust to the skate. When I first got them I installed a heel lift, as I like a forward pitch. This made me feel like I was on too much of an incline. I removed the heel lift and then the skates felt very flat. Too much steel in contact with the ice. Changed profiles from a ProSharp Quad 2 to a Quad 1 and then 0. Still didn't feel right. Removed the SB 4.0 holder and installed an LS Edge holder with Step steel and it initially felt better but after using them a few times I again felt very flat-footed. 

Changed insoles, Super Feet, SpeedPlates, CCM, Sidas, and ultimately ended up with the following.

7D FT1 with LS holders, 272 steel, Bauer SpeedPlates, Quad 2 profile, 1/8" heel lift, do not lace the top eyelet. That's what I have been using until this last week when I sold them.

Now I am back to using a pair of Super Tacks, retail model, 7D, that I have had laying around for a while now. Trying to figure out what to do next. 

Howdy,

 

Holy crap.

Thanks for making me feel better about trying a couple pairs before settling on what I have now.  :-)

Mark

[VegasHockey 1280]

Well, guess we will see how good True skates are. Paid the significant sum of money and ordered a pair today. They had better not suck or I am going to be pissed and depressed. 

[IPv6Freely 2093]

10 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Well, guess we will see how good True skates are. Paid the significant sum of money and ordered a pair today. They had better not suck or I am going to be pissed and depressed. 

LOL they definitely do not suck :) 

I assume you got 3D scanned?

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 hour ago, IPv6Freely said:

LOL they definitely do not suck :) 

I assume you got 3D scanned?

Sure did. I am in San Jose, CA for work until Wednesday so I had the Pure Hockey here scan my feet. Didn't ask for anything special except for the shot blockers addition. I assume this just makes the quarter package slightly more stiff. The guy at Pure didn't really know. They have only sold 10 pairs. 

[CigarScott 132]

24 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Sure did. I am in San Jose, CA for work until Wednesday so I had the Pure Hockey here scan my feet. Didn't ask for anything special except for the shot blockers addition. I assume this just makes the quarter package slightly more stiff. The guy at Pure didn't really know. They have only sold 10 pairs. 

I'm going to St. Louis next weekend and am hoping that their Pure Hockey foot scanner is ready; they said it just arrived last week and wasn't ready yet. How long did the process take?

[IPv6Freely 2093]

30 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Sure did. I am in San Jose, CA for work until Wednesday so I had the Pure Hockey here scan my feet. Didn't ask for anything special except for the shot blockers addition. I assume this just makes the quarter package slightly more stiff. The guy at Pure didn't really know. They have only sold 10 pairs. 

Awesome! Not sure if it makes it stiffer but it wouldn’t surprise me. 

4 minutes ago, CigarScott said:

I'm going to St. Louis next weekend and am hoping that their Pure Hockey foot scanner is ready; they said it just arrived last week and wasn't ready yet. How long did the process take?

About 10 minutes. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

16 minutes ago, CigarScott said:

I'm going to St. Louis next weekend and am hoping that their Pure Hockey foot scanner is ready; they said it just arrived last week and wasn't ready yet. How long did the process take?

In total, about an hour. He had to scan one foot a couple times because the scanner was acting funny. We also did measurements as well. 

 

I went with the VH/Step holders and got an extra set of steel. I hope I don't regret those holders. They are very stiff. I couldn't twist them in my hand like I could with the LS Edge holder. 

 

[ParabolicActivity 48]

Have you considered the idea that you may be suffering from having too many options? Maybe you should dedicate yourself to spending a full year in these skates before you make any kind of change and just see how you feel after that year. You seem like you're chasing some skate feeling from the past and driving yourself crazy. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

11 hours ago, ParabolicActivity said:

Have you considered the idea that you may be suffering from having too many options? Maybe you should dedicate yourself to spending a full year in these skates before you make any kind of change and just see how you feel after that year. You seem like you're chasing some skate feeling from the past and driving yourself crazy. 

With the amount I just spent on True skates I am not changing to anything else for at least a couple years. 

[Sniper9 530]

12 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

With the amount I just spent on True skates I am not changing to anything else for at least a couple years. 

And it might be what you just need... To stick with a skate for a while. Just be prepared that the true skate feels nothing like a traditional skates. So don't let that put you off in the beginning. The step holders are decent holders. I would choose those over the edge any day, but I'm very anti edge holders bc of my experience with poor fitting steel in them. 

Worst case you can always swap the holders down the road. 

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

15 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

With the amount I just spent on True skates I am not changing to anything else for at least a couple years. 

That was where you lost me (and quite a few people in the True thread) - using money spent (or a different fitting method) as the determining factor of a skate working for you.

It just feels that you're going to defend them to the death, anything else be damned, just because you paid full boat for them.  And you haven't even skated in them yet.

I really wish they work out for you.  But I feel your issues weren't fully worked out with the other skates you had. Surely there was a solution in there, but now you're back to square one.

 

[Zac911 317]

On 2/9/2018 at 10:19 PM, Nicholas G said:

I the last 18 months I have owned Supreme MX3, Supreme 1S, Vapor 1x (2015), Vapor 1x (2017), CCM JetSpeed (2016), CCM JetSpeed FT1 (2017), CCM Super Tacks, and Easton Mako II skates. I just haven't been able to find the perfect skate, though I would say the Mako was the best fit although the boot was slightly too soft for my liking.

At this point, I am considering a pair of True skates.

I do not consider myself having "difficult" or "unique" feet other than my left is 0.5 sizes smaller than my right and I have a very high arch. Am I just not giving these skates and my body mechanics a fair enough time to adjust? I skate 5+ days a weekly, 12+ hours weekly, so every pair of skates usually gets a fair amount of usage before I give up on them and move on to trying another model on. 

The Bauer Skate Lab said I should wear a 7EE. This may have felt ok to most people but to me, the skates felt too loose and sloppy. I usually need to get an E/A boot or I prefer to slightly stretch a D width. I really love my skates having zero negative space.

I have read both positive and negative reviews regarding the True skates and would hate to invest such a huge amount of money into them if there are other alternatives I should be considered

Thanks for the help in advance. 

The part in bold really does it for me.  I know so many players with two different size feet or are in pain-  How is a stock boot EVER going to fix that? 

When I think of all the money players spend in many different ways to play hockey and then I think about some of the comments regarding customs being a last resort?  Shouldn't your feet be happy?  If your feet hurt it takes away from your overall experience thus cheapens your experience.  Last time I checked skating is a pretty big part of the game-  Like pretty much most of it.

I can honestly say that since I got mine I have not had this much fun playing hockey in years.  The fit is great for me since it's made for me,  but the performance I gained from the the entire package was so much more.

Instead of buying a marketing campaign that is trying to play on your emotions with a cheap hashtag that will be gone in 6-9 months... Why not buy a skate made for YOU?

I am quite certain that someone here wants to argue purely for the sport of it,  but think about it-  If you are dealing with issues like this guy has listed how is a custom a last resort?  With all the money spent on sticks,  gloves,  unobtanium helmets to protect against intergalactic keggers',  league fees and everything else you guys pour money into-  Somehow happy feet and better performance are not worth considering?  

I have bought into the big dogs marketing from time to time and it always left me disappointed I let some B$ get into my head when I know better.  #metoo 

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

There's a difference between seeing a skilled, trained doctor vs. self-medicating. And based on what I see in this thread, he never really got that.

And I really don't think that a dig at hashtags then using #metoo for a skate choice is the best choice here - just a thought.  That hashtag means a lot to people; my wife included. Still love you though!

 

[IniNew 53]

9 minutes ago, Zac911 said:

The part in bold really does it for me.  I know so many players with two different size feet or are in pain-  How is a stock boot EVER going to fix that? 

When I think of all the money players spend in many different ways to play hockey and then I think about some of the comments regarding customs being a last resort?  Shouldn't your feet be happy?  If your feet hurt it takes away from your overall experience thus cheapens your experience.  Last time I checked skating is a pretty big part of the game-  Like pretty much most of it.

I can honestly say that since I got mine I have not had this much fun playing hockey in years.  The fit is great for me since it's made for me,  but the performance I gained from the the entire package was so much more.

Instead of buying a marketing campaign that is trying to play on your emotions with a cheap hashtag that will be gone in 6-9 months... Why not buy a skate made for YOU?

I am quite certain that someone here wants to argue purely for the sport of it,  but think about it-  If you are dealing with issues like this guy has listed how is a custom a last resort?  With all the money spent on sticks,  gloves,  unobtanium helmets to protect against intergalactic keggers',  league fees and everything else you guys pour money into-  Somehow happy feet and better performance are not worth considering?  

I have bought into the big dogs marketing from time to time and it always left me disappointed I let some B$ get into my head when I know better.  #metoo 

 

Quote

Instead of buying a marketing campaign that is trying to play on your emotions with a cheap hashtag that will be gone in 6-9 months... Why not buy a skate made for YOU?

 

Immediately after saying your feet should be happy (an emotional plea), interesting.

 

Quote

If you are dealing with issues like this guy has listed how is a custom a last resort?  With all the money spent on sticks,  gloves,  unobtanium helmets to protect against intergalactic keggers',  league fees and everything else you guys pour money into-  Somehow happy feet and better performance are not worth considering?

 

Surely we're not comparing hot spots on a skate to concussions, are we? Those costs you said stay there regardless of how "happy your feet are". If a cheaper option creates an acceptable situation, customs are absolutely a last resort, because it's additional money to accomplish a goal that can be met without it.

 

Is that the case for someone with different sized feet? Depends on their personal level of comfort. Is it a good reason to chuck $1000 custom skates at someone? Probably not always the best. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

4 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

That was where you lost me (and quite a few people in the True thread) - using money spent (or a different fitting method) as the determining factor of a skate working for you.

It just feels that you're going to defend them to the death, anything else be damned, just because you paid full boat for them.  And you haven't even skated in them yet.

I really wish they work out for you.  But I feel your issues weren't fully worked out with the other skates you had. Surely there was a solution in there, but now you're back to square one.

 

Honestly, I don't think there was a solution with other skates after getting scanned. One foot is 0.5 sizes larger and a EE and the other is a D width. My ankles are also more forward than normal and have a very narrow heel. After talking to True and looking at the scans I think going custom was the only option for at this point. 

Its funny, I consider myself to have decently normal feet but Scott said mine are far from normal. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

14 minutes ago, JR Boucicaut said:

There's a difference between seeing a skilled, trained doctor vs. self-medicating. And based on what I see in this thread, he never really got that.

And I really don't think that a dig at hashtags then using #metoo for a skate choice is the best choice here - just a thought.  That hashtag means a lot to people; my wife included. Still love you though!

 

I am not self-medicating. You act as if I have only been skating since I was an adult. I have spent 30+ years in hockey skates. Also, that hashtag is out of place. 

[Zac911 317]

14 minutes ago, JR Boucicaut said:

There's a difference between seeing a skilled, trained doctor vs. self-medicating. And based on what I see in this thread, he never really got that.

And I really don't think that a dig at hashtags then using #metoo for a skate choice is the best choice here - just a thought.  That hashtag means a lot to people; my wife included. Still love you though!

 

You know me ... It wasn't meant to be a dig at anybody personally,  so much as a dig at myself.  We all have our challenges in life.  Twitter has had a field day with that hashtag and many others.  At the end of the day they are just words and we shouldn't give them so much power.  Actions speak louder to me.  YMMV.