VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

3 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

I deal with a lot of high-level Junior teams, including WHL teams and such. 

True services the CHL.  Curious as to why teams are dealing with a store?

[VegasHockey 1280]

6 minutes ago, JR Boucicaut said:

True services the CHL.  Curious as to why teams are dealing with a store?

We do a lot of stuff for the local WHL teams and work closely with their equipment managers. Also, we are more than a store. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Nicholas G

[smu 29]

12 minutes ago, JR Boucicaut said:

We haven't given members options to upload in 10 years.  They're using Imgur or other photo upload services.

Thanks! Must be thinking of a different forum.

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

7 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Also, we are more than a store. 

What else do you do?

[Larry54 243]

3 hours ago, smu said:

Lary54,

I did not mean to upset you or anybody, I was trying to be funny and just thought I would give "the once over again" with what I can't believe has to be a joke played on me by someone at True. Otherwise what the heck could have happened to quality control?

Meanwhile waiting for a third pair having really lost over 8 games so far. I did have the too big Trues, but then had to fall back on a bad pair of skates that I have torn apart.

Again, my apologies and also for not getting my photos up yet, I will have to get to work on that it is just that I am not the best with getting my photos up to MSH.

Cheers

No problem. I totally understand your frustrations.

The reason for my question about blade size goes back to my first pair of VH, 5 years ago. One of the many pieces of info that they asked for was current skate brand and size, and current blade size. Even though I wore size 7 Bauer with "263" blades, I wrote that I believed the skate boots were longer than they should be, but I had chosen that length to avoid having the toe cap pinch my weird, wide forefoot and toes. I also mentioned that I wouldn't mind going with shorter blades if the ideal boot for my foot was shorter than my current pair. Then I received VH skates that were the same length as my Bauers with "263" blades and just assumed they knew better even though there was a good 7-8mm ahead of my toes. The skates fit so well otherwise with the molding that I felt good about the skates.

Three years later, when I saw that other VH owners had much closer fitting skates lengthwise, I decided to order a new pair. I sent several e-mails to Rob insisting on a closer fitting boot, asking him to throw out the data on my first boots, even specifically asking for "254" blades because I knew that "263" blades could not fit on shorter boots. My current VH skates are closer to a size 6 with "254" blades and fit perfectly. Not knowing what their thinking was at the time, I felt they might have made the boots long enough to fit the "263" blades that they thought I would be more familiar with. That's why I asked you if you requested oversized holders. I was just trying to figure out why they would have made you longer boots. But from your description, it sounds like True are really way off on this one and I hope they will make it right for you.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Larry54

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 minute ago, Larry54 said:

No problem. I totally understand your frustrations.

The reason for my question about blade size goes back to my first pair of VH, 5 years ago. One of the many pieces of info that they asked for was current skate brand and size, and current blade size. Even though I wore size 7 Bauer with "263" blades, I wrote that I believed they were longer than they should be, but I had chosen that length to avoid having the toe cap pinch my weird, wide forefoot and toes. I also mentioned that I wouldn't mind going with shorter blades if the ideal boot for my foot was shorter than my current pair. Then I received VH skates that were the same length as my Bauers with "263" blades and just assumed they knew better even though there was a good 7-8mm ahead of my toes. The skates fit so well otherwise with the molding that I felt good about the skates.

Three years later, when I saw that other VH owners had much closer fitting skates lengthwise, I decided to order a new pair. I sent several e-mails to Rob insisting on a closer fitting boot, asking him to throw out the data on my first boots, even specifically asking for "254" blades because I knew that "263" blades could not fit on shorter boots. My current VH skates are closer to a size 6 with "254" blades and fit perfectly. Not knowing what their thinking was at the time, I felt they might have made the boots long enough to fit the "263" blades that they thought I would be more familiar with. That's why I asked you if you requested oversized holders. I was just trying to figure out why they would have made you longer boots. But from your description, it sounds like True are really way off on this one and I hope they will make it right for you.

A 263 holder length is standard on a size 7 skate. That is not longer than should be. In fact, many players will request a 272 on custom skates on a size 7/7.5 skate. I actually use a 272 on my own skates, both True and Bauer/CCM, which are 6 7/8 left and 7 1/4 right. 

 

[Larry54 243]

9 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

A 263 holder length is standard on a size 7 skate. That is not longer than should be. In fact, many players will request a 272 on custom skates on a size 7/7.5 skate. I actually use a 272 on my own skates, both True and Bauer/CCM, which are 6 7/8 left and 7 1/4 right. 

 

Maybe I wasn't clear. I meant that I felt that the skates were longer than they should be for my feet, not the holders. I'll edit my previous post to replace "they" with "the skate boots", for clarity.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Larry54

[flip12 715]

@JR Boucicaut it could be nice with the option to host the images on MSH, if only to guard against broken links a few years down the road. There are posts in the archive that don’t make as much sense now because the images’ links have gone stale. If it’s like the seller’s subscription and costs a few dollars, I could definitely see it being worth it and being a huge plus to the longterm value of MSH all-around. There’s too much volatility in the image hosting business over a 5-10 year period.

[IPv6Freely 2094]

8 hours ago, flip12 said:

@JR Boucicaut it could be nice with the option to host the images on MSH, if only to guard against broken links a few years down the road. There are posts in the archive that don’t make as much sense now because the images’ links have gone stale. If it’s like the seller’s subscription and costs a few dollars, I could definitely see it being worth it and being a huge plus to the longterm value of MSH all-around. There’s too much volatility in the image hosting business over a 5-10 year period.

That’s what I’ve been thinking too. If there’s one feature I think people would be willing to shell out a couple bucks for, it’s image hosting. 

[smu 29]

21 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

A 263 holder length is standard on a size 7 skate. That is not longer than should be. In fact, many players will request a 272 on custom skates on a size 7/7.5 skate. I actually use a 272 on my own skates, both True and Bauer/CCM, which are 6 7/8 left and 7 1/4 right. 

 

I had the 246 blade on the Bauer size 5 and the blade on the new boot was 254 I believe, but there was a huge difference in the overall length with that toe box than needed the stuffing. By the looks of it that might make my skate a size 6, but the insole had 7 marked on it. When they stuffed the toe the boots came back with a size 6 insole this time, but the only difference was the insertion of the dense foam in the toe. Same size skate, but they can change the size by the amount of filler that can be added to the toe. For my third pair I asked for a "regular" length skate similar to the Bauer with the 246 blade. With regard to the width I am at a loss as to how they managed to make me a wide boot and in particular 3/8" larger on the back sole (and complete sole) when in fact they were told I have a narrow foot and the size 5 Bauer were too wide so make them smaller.

At this stage all I can hope is that they fit right so I don't have to keep posting/fixing my Bauers like I did again today! My game was about 60% so I could say not bad considering what I have gone through sometimes.  There were times I would step on the ice for a feel of the skates then step off and go home.

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

21 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

What else do you do?

Waiting......

[marka 526]

Howdy,

On 11/14/2018 at 9:13 PM, JR Boucicaut said:

Side note as I hold my white flag up...

You mention photos on MSH.  We're considering opening up the option to have access to uploading directly on MSH.  It would be something you'd have to pay for, ad we would have to pay for additional resources to handle the load.

Do you guys think it's a feature you'd like us to implement?

Depending on how the cost worked... Yes.  Having to host photos somewhere else is a PITA.

Mark

[VegasHockey 1280]

3 hours ago, dkmiller3356 said:

Waiting......

A lot of things..... Some stuff under NDA, but we do composite fabrication and engineering. Research of composite, coating, and casting systems and manufacturing as well. Also, as more of a hobby, we dabble in metallurgy too. Myself, personally, I deal with engineering. Not sure why any of this matters though. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Nicholas G

[Sniper9 530]

I have to add that with my skates, before they were baked they felt huge.  Most people say they can't fit their foot in before baking but mine felt like they were two sizes too big in width. After they were baked they felt good. But even then I don't have issues putting them on or taking them off... To take them off I only need to unlace the top eyelet where most people need to do two. 

I spot heated my right boot and squeezed the areas below the ankle bones without them on as there is no way I'd be able to get that leverage with them on and doing it by myself. It worked out very well. Threw in speed plates and I'm happy to say my right skate is more or less 100%. 

With that said , I'm tinkering with my left skate because, unlike the right, the lefts arch has given me a bit of arch pain here and there. Nothing major but at the end of  some games it's a but sore. I can alleviate it with the simple red insole trimming, but I don't like the added volume using the red insole. So I'm forced to actually heat up the arch area and push it slightly down... I did that and threw in speed plates and although the arch feels good, the overall fit around the ankle/heel seems a touch off now.  I'm going to tinker with it some more when I'm back home from vacation. 

Most would think this is a lot of work for skates that are "custom" and should come fitting perfectly from factory. I don't disagree.  But at least this is letting others know that there are minor tinkering you can do to adjust the overall fit of the skates without worrying of damaging by reheating parts of it. 

A lot of it is also In my head. My left and right feet are different. And I might be chasing the "fit" that just doesn't exist because regardless what is on my feet, because they are different, both will never feel the "same". 

[Sniper9 530]

Repost

Edited November 16, 2018 by Sniper9

[smu 29]

Hey guys I see that I have an account with Flickr and Imgur, but never used them!

I will have to find out what to do and maybe I can just post one photo showing the True and the Bauer together!

Cheers

 

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

11 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

A lot of things..... Some stuff under NDA, but we do composite fabrication and engineering. Research of composite, coating, and casting systems and manufacturing as well. Also, as more of a hobby, we dabble in metallurgy too. Myself, personally, I deal with engineering. Not sure why any of this matters though. 

It was just a question; obviously, if it matters to those teams and they're dealing with you, shouldn't it matter to others in the hockey business community?

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

11 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

A lot of things..... Some stuff under NDA, but we do composite fabrication and engineering. Research of composite, coating, and casting systems and manufacturing as well. Also, as more of a hobby, we dabble in metallurgy too. Myself, personally, I deal with engineering. Not sure why any of this matters though. 

Matters for a few reasons.  First and foremost is the establishment of credibility in this community. When one speaks to their own expertise and qualifications some support of that is a reasonable request.  You have, after all, been pretty outspoken.  Second, is the fact that you stated that you were servicing certain teams when typically they are serviced directly through True.  This bears some scrutiny and a follow up as to why the teams would use you and not the manufacturer.  In the end, the community will decide whether it believes you or not and sharing more information about your store and your expertise can only help in that regard,

[Larry54 243]

15 hours ago, smu said:

I had the 246 blade on the Bauer size 5 and the blade on the new boot was 254 I believe, but there was a huge difference in the overall length with that toe box than needed the stuffing. By the looks of it that might make my skate a size 6, but the insole had 7 marked on it. When they stuffed the toe the boots came back with a size 6 insole this time, but the only difference was the insertion of the dense foam in the toe. Same size skate, but they can change the size by the amount of filler that can be added to the toe. For my third pair I asked for a "regular" length skate similar to the Bauer with the 246 blade. With regard to the width I am at a loss as to how they managed to make me a wide boot and in particular 3/8" larger on the back sole (and complete sole) when in fact they were told I have a narrow foot and the size 5 Bauer were too wide so make them smaller.

At this stage all I can hope is that they fit right so I don't have to keep posting/fixing my Bauers like I did again today! My game was about 60% so I could say not bad considering what I have gone through sometimes.  There were times I would step on the ice for a feel of the skates then step off and go home.

The foam in the toe box is reminiscent of MLX skates. When they were first released, they didn't have half sizes so they put a "plug" in the toe cap to decrease the boot by a half size. That never made any sense to me. I mean, we basically tolerate having our toes brush the inside of the toe cap for the benefit of having the smallest, lightest, close-fitting skate possible. Having a piece of foam to imitate the feel of brushing the toe cap in an overly large skate is the exact opposite of this concept. It didn't make sense with the MLX skates and makes even less sense now with a custom skate. I mean I love my VH skates but I'm frankly disappointed in your situation. Again I hope True make this right for you.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

1 hour ago, dkmiller3356 said:

Matters for a few reasons.  First and foremost is the establishment of credibility in this community. When one speaks to their own expertise and qualifications some support of that is a reasonable request.  You have, after all, been pretty outspoken.  Second, is the fact that you stated that you were servicing certain teams when typically they are serviced directly through True.  This bears some scrutiny and a follow up as to why the teams would use you and not the manufacturer.  In the end, the community will decide whether it believes you or not and sharing more information about your store and your expertise can only help in that regard,

Actually there are a few shops World wide that are used to full gaps when the Pro Reps cannot make a fitting. I personally have been asked to do Detroit and Ottawa players in those city's. As well as meet players in Toronto when Jorg is out if town. Not to mention summer fittings. Probably why I sit at almost 900 fits. And the others such as @Nicholas G who have done larger amounts of fittings are asked to fill in when needed. 

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

15 minutes ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Actually there are a few shops World wide that are used to full gaps when the Pro Reps cannot make a fitting. I personally have been asked to do Detroit and Ottawa players in those city's. As well as meet players in Toronto when Jorg is out if town. Not to mention summer fittings. Probably why I sit at almost 900 fits. And the others such as @Nicholas G who have done larger amounts of fittings are asked to fill in when needed. 

And that's fair but needs to be established.  It raises the question if he has, in fact, been asked to do this by True or not.

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

Thanks for the clarification, Jeff. 

Dave - it would have to be as the team will still book the order through the manufacturer. 

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

Funny enough, when I got my Trues, I thought my left boot was built too small as my toes were pushing against the toe box.  Asked True if they had any solutions to this, they looked up my order, and voila, said all I had to do is pull out the foam insert in the cap.  No muss, no fuss, since it was held in with tape. (right boot didn't have any insert)  Fit's been perfect ever since.  In hindsight, probably should have told my LHS (to relay to True), that I didn't really like my toes brushing too much and they probably would have never put in the insert.

On an aside, dealing with True, when I needed it, was fantastic, and I believe they would right any wrongs as everyone I've talked to there seems to really want to have their customers happy.  I would leave a message, and they would contact me right back.  And whether it's relevant or not, I've found this to be true with CCM and Blackstone.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

16 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

A lot of things..... Some stuff under NDA, but we do composite fabrication and engineering. Research of composite, coating, and casting systems and manufacturing as well. Also, as more of a hobby, we dabble in metallurgy too. Myself, personally, I deal with engineering. Not sure why any of this matters though. 

Metallurgy for what? Skate blades?

[Sniper9 530]

4 hours ago, Larry54 said:

The foam in the toe box is reminiscent of MLX skates. When they were first released, they didn't have half sizes so they put a "plug" in the toe cap to decrease the boot by a half size. That never made any sense to me. I mean, we basically tolerate having our toes brush the inside of the toe cap for the benefit of having the smallest, lightest, close-fitting skate possible. Having a piece of foam to imitate the feel of brushing the toe cap in an overly large skate is the exact opposite of this concept. It didn't make sense with the MLX skates and makes even less sense now with a custom skate. I mean I love my VH skates but I'm frankly disappointed in your situation. Again I hope True make this right for you.

Mlx skates were off the shelf for consumers and didn't advertise as custom made but heat moldable and altered to feel like they were custom right? If so, then the tow plugs do make sense for them as they are giving the customer every option available to meet their fitting needs without actually making a boot from a scan or mould or even tracing.