TRUE TF9/TF7 skates

[BenBreeg 493]

Don’t want to derail,  but depending on your leverage you can certainly control this.  I can’t imagine if CCM traced complaints to stores that didn’t feel like baking skates they would keep them as a top tier (or whatever it is) dealer.  Other industries that have contractors/partners deliver their products have various arrangements to ensure quality.

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 hour ago, Sniper9 said:

Does Bauer and CCM etc give shops free skate ovens? I'm legitimately asking. 

Bauer ccm and true all make shops pay for their scanners don't they? I know Bauer does and it's a ridiculous price.  You'd think something like a scanner should be loaned out to the shop free of charge since it's something that is required in custom orders. 

 

1 hour ago, BenBreeg said:

Dunno, but if that is the arrangement then I am sure they ensure shops have them, others can provide first hand info.  Whether it is providing them or mandating them.  If you put all this R&D into moldability you can’t have it fall short because shops don’t want to perform what seems to be a valuable step.  Not saying the responsibilty is to buy it, but they should ensure the customer walks out the door with the skate fitting to the standard they are selling.

CCM/Bauer/TRUE do not provide smaller stores with ovens or even smaller items like skate fitting brannocks unless you do a very large volume os sales. They offer these fitting tools to dealers at a reduced cost but they are still quite costly. 

Most manufacturers do have a type of dealer program where a dealer, based on previous years booking numbers, can get points to use for retail displays and other items such as skate display walls. 

When I say smaller dealers I am specifically referencing dealers doing under 200k in sales annually of a specific brand. For example, book 120k worth of ccm which has a sellable value of 200k. While this number might sound small imagine the fact that many dealers carry multiple brands. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by SkateWorksPNW

[mojo122 535]

Why would a "custom" skate have so much negative space to begin with that you would need seran wrap or tensor bands for the bake?

Edited August 23, 2020 by mojo122

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

33 minutes ago, mojo122 said:

Why would a "custom" skate have so much negative space to begin with that you would need seran wrap or tensor bands for the bake?

Kind of lost how this question is in this section of the thread about the retailers not filling the fit process properly. 

I have seen posts from stores posting pictures from all manufacturers that are not being done as per manufacturer instructions.  IE standing in freshly baked skates. (Usually on an IG story). 

The in store training is the key. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

23 minutes ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Kind of lost how this question is in this section of the thread about the retailers not filling the fit process properly. 

I have seen posts from stores posting pictures from all manufacturers that are not being done as per manufacturer instructions.  IE standing in freshly baked skates. (Usually on an IG story). 

The in store training is the key. 

Agreed. 

[Sniper9 529]

3 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Kind of lost how this question is in this section of the thread about the retailers not filling the fit process properly. 

I have seen posts from stores posting pictures from all manufacturers that are not being done as per manufacturer instructions.  IE standing in freshly baked skates. (Usually on an IG story). 

The in store training is the key. 

Standing. Knees and feet completely misaligned, ankles bent inward and outward,and they are moving around etc etc.  

[Sniper9 529]

4 hours ago, mojo122 said:

Why would a "custom" skate have so much negative space to begin with that you would need seran wrap or tensor bands for the bake?

Not sure how true does it but building a skate from the inside out, they have to get the last our somewhere when the end product is done. I'm guessing they have to heat up the skate and get the last out which makes the boot no longer conformed to the shape of the buyers foot, but is easily remedied by proper (and mandatory) baking. 

[218hockey 50]

So the obvious question is how does a guy try these skates? They are intriguing, but no way I could just buy them and hope for the best after reading how different they are then everything else on the market.

[VegasHockey 1280]

15 minutes ago, 218hockey said:

So the obvious question is how does a guy try these skates? They are intriguing, but no way I could just buy them and hope for the best after reading how different they are then everything else on the market.

Find a local dealer that has them in stock? I imagine you could also order them online and then return them if you dont like them. Just dont sharpen them. 

[218hockey 50]

4 minutes ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

Find a local dealer that has them in stock? I imagine you could also order them online and then return them if you dont like them. Just dont sharpen them. 

I've never seen a pair in my life. Pure Hockey maybe?

Kinda hard to try them without sharpening!??? 

[flip12 712]

6 hours ago, mojo122 said:

Why would a "custom" skate have so much negative space to begin with that you would need seran wrap or tensor bands for the bake?

Custom tailored jeans might be a good analogy. The measurements are correct, but the final mapping of the custom product to real flesh and bone, with all of its quirks requires a final step. Prebake, it’s like custom APC denim. Time is required to take them from the right measurements to an extension of your body. Thermoplasticity replaces time with the custom skates.

The problem isn’t just negative space, but positive space.

[mojo122 535]

13 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Kind of lost how this question is in this section of the thread about the retailers not filling the fit process properly. 

 

Post referring that it should be True's responsibility to provide seran or shrink wrap...

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

2 hours ago, mojo122 said:

Post referring that it should be True's responsibility to provide seran or shrink wrap...

As mentioned by many others. Why? That is totally up to the store. Bauer Scanners have to be purchased there not free. Ipads for True are free but are property of True. Not sure how CCM does there's. 

But were talking products that are consumables like rivets and helmet screws. No company pays for that stuff you buy your own consumables. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

16 hours ago, 218hockey said:

I've never seen a pair in my life. Pure Hockey maybe?

Kinda hard to try them without sharpening!??? 

I was referring to the fit. If they fit poorly why would you even wear them on the ice? If they fit properly anything else can be changed or modified to "work" through profiling, tower swap, steel changes, and such. If the skate doesn't fit properly then nothing else will matter. 

Also, according to the Pure Hockey website they allow 30 day returns on skates no matter if they are sharpened or even used. Kinda crazy. 

[218hockey 50]

6 minutes ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

 

Also, according to the Pure Hockey website they allow 30 day returns on skates no matter if they are sharpened or even used. Kinda crazy. 

I don't think that's crazy at all. No way I would purchase if they didn't allow that.

Imagine going to a car dealership and they said you can't drive anything or return it after purchase.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

27 minutes ago, 218hockey said:

I don't think that's crazy at all. No way I would purchase if they didn't allow that.

Imagine going to a car dealership and they said you can't drive anything or return it after purchase.

Most dealerships aren't going to allow you to return a car post-purchase, unless it falls under your local lemon laws. "I changed my mind" isn't going to get you anywhere. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 hour ago, IPv6Freely said:

Most dealerships aren't going to allow you to return a car post-purchase, unless it falls under your local lemon laws. "I changed my mind" isn't going to get you anywhere. 

Yeah. I've never heard of a car dealership allowing you to return a car because you decided you didn't like it after purchase....

[BenBreeg 493]

You can drive the car before purchasing so a little different.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Yep, agreed with that part. I was more commenting on the second half.

That said, if you want to still use that analogy, a test drive is like putting the skates on and walking around the store. You never really get a chance to REALLY see what it can do until you're off the lot (usually).

Anyway, let's move on. This thread has badly devolved. I know there is validity in comparing skate models but it definitely feels like we're just going in circles, here. 

[Ranger-#8 1]

just moved up to Minnesota...any recommendations for a shop that can give a proper fitting on trues?

[218hockey 50]

3 hours ago, BenBreeg said:

You can drive the car before purchasing so a little different.

Yes, that's my point. Not buying without being able to try or return.

If this True company wants to make inroads with their new and somewhat obscure (I don't know a single person that owns them) product then they are going to have to do things a bit differently. Of course they claim their product is better and different. Well guess what? We're happy (enough) with our current skate brand and it will take a try or some kind of convincing to switch. Somehow you've got to get people in them and on the ice.

Short story.

Back in the day when I was super into motorcycles I was driving my car home through an adjacent city and noticed a motorcycle model in a line of bikes outside a dealership. It was a model I had always been interested in that I had only read about in magazines. I turned around and inquired and the owner gave me a bit of a quiz about my riding experience, asked what size of helmet and gloves I wore, and asked how long I'd be gone. I absolutely loved it and couldn't stop grinning in my helmet. The next day I was at that dealership with my trade in. Never, ever would have happened without that dealer offering a test ride.

Maybe that isn't a great analogy and maybe I just have to realize if the skate boot fits well and the holders and blades can be the same as the skates we have now that all will be good?

[218hockey 50]

2 minutes ago, Ranger-#8 said:

just moved up to Minnesota...any recommendations for a shop that can give a proper fitting on trues?

Where are you? Twin Cities?

[Ranger-#8 1]

2 minutes ago, 218hockey said:

Where are you? Twin Cities?

In Rochester but really willing to drive into the city or surrounding area if they are worth it.

[EJB 488]

I actually just "won" a pair of the TF9's and if what I am reading is correct, sizing is pretty comparable in volume and length to Bauer Supreme's? 

The consensus is a straight across move is pretty safe?

Is there a difference in build from the Jr. 5.5's and the Sr. 6's?

I might have some more questions, but that's a good start.  

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 hour ago, EJB said:

I actually just "won" a pair of the TF9's and if what I am reading is correct, sizing is pretty comparable in volume and length to Bauer Supreme's? 

The consensus is a straight across move is pretty safe?

Is there a difference in build from the Jr. 5.5's and the Sr. 6's?

I might have some more questions, but that's a good start.  

Yes, sizing is pretty similar. If you are a 6.0D Supreme then you should go with the same with TRUE. No difference in TRUE between junior and senior skates.