Ultrasonic skates

[Leif 161]

15 hours ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

The scanner and the new FIT system are NOT on the same page at all. You can view my scans here and tell me how any of it makes sense. I had to go full custom becuase the scanner was so wrong. 

Old scan: 

https://my.volumental.com/en/bauer_custom/b60530fa-ad71-4223-a6c9-b5f20e8b71ae/?utm_medium=myvemail

New scan:

https://my.volumental.com/en/bauer_custom_beta/78d525c9-78cb-497d-a3cc-f441f6c97e28/?utm_medium=myvemail

 

I had scans 18 months apart (ice skates, then inlines two months ago) and my (old style) scans look quite different:

https://my.volumental.com/en/bauer/2f029e24-c1e1-4885-bd8a-706f9cc01baf/?utm_medium=myvemail

https://my.volumental.com/en/bauer/1a55d684-3f9e-4837-9dfc-386f818a263c/?utm_medium=myvemail

Most of this could be due to values being relative to the population, and second time around there was a much bigger database of scans. Some values are weird, look at my arches, very different in one, the same in the other. According to the scans, I am a duck. 

I noticed in one scan you were upright, in the other with knees bent.  I believe knees bent is how you should stand, and the foot wiil change shape in that stance. On one scan one of your feet looks like the toes were pulled in. Tight socks? I was told to wear socks, but I thought it should be barefoot  

 

[mojo122 535]

Unless you exactly replicate how you stand on the scanner there will be some changes from scan to scan.  Whenever I scan for customs I do it barefoot and advise others that the most accurate scan occurs when barefoot.

I regularly scan my feet to verify the scanner's accuracy and previously I always scanned to a 7EE Supreme and now I always scan to a 7EE/7 Fit 3.  My only criticism of the scanner is that based on algorithms it will place some skaters in EE/Fit 3 that from experience I feel are better off in a D/Fit 2.

[flip12 714]

18 hours ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

The scanner and the new FIT system are NOT on the same page at all. You can view my scans here and tell me how any of it makes sense. I had to go full custom becuase the scanner was so wrong. 

Old scan: 

https://my.volumental.com/en/bauer_custom/b60530fa-ad71-4223-a6c9-b5f20e8b71ae/?utm_medium=myvemail

New scan:

https://my.volumental.com/en/bauer_custom_beta/78d525c9-78cb-497d-a3cc-f441f6c97e28/?utm_medium=myvemail

 

That explains it. I remember the guy behind Icehockey360.ru posting his scans and he had something like 90th percentile wide and deep feet with below average heel width and it recommended fit1 or something that didn’t seem to make any sense.

[althoma1 574]

On 8/5/2020 at 12:45 PM, SkateWorksPNW said:

@mojo122 or someone else will have to confirm. We dont have any intermediate Ultrasonics in stock at this time and will likely not be getting any as its too costly of a skate to stock and I would personally rather push a player to CCM or TRUE at that price.

Yes, as you can probably guess. I am partial to CCM and TRUE over Bauer for skates. The CCM 90-day satisfaction guarantee has been a huge benefit to many customers looking to buy a top end skate. 

From what I've seen, read and tried on, I'm also partial to True and CCM over Bauer for skates. I'm used to speed skate inspired skates since I use Mako II's now and used to use KOR skates; so the True's seem most similar and their retail prices on the skates are much more palatable. The CCM 90 day guarantee is great and they offer two levels of skates with the one piece boots. I also think both True and CCM have more durable quick release holders than Bauer. 

On 8/20/2020 at 9:43 PM, SkateWorksPNW said:

I have a full custom order coming in later this month so can provide more long term feedback as well. I kept having fitment issues with the retail FIT2 so I had no choice but to bite the bullet and go 100% full custom. 

Why did you decide to do a full custom Bauer order if you're partial to CCM and True over Bauer for skates? Just to see what they'll be like compared to the retail so you're better informed or do they have features you prefer over True and CCM?

[mojo122 535]

1 hour ago, althoma1 said:

 I also think both True and CCM have more durable quick release holders than Bauer. 

Guess NHL equipment mangers and players disagree.  Of the 11% of NHL players wearing True skates most have Edge holders on them.  Unless he recently changed last time I saw Marner he was also still sporting edge holders on his Trues'.

From experience I'm not seeing durability issues in my area.

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

I wonder how much of hose equipment managers are simply using Bauer bias, and doing it also for simplicities sake

[mojo122 535]

Without a doubt it's for simplicity as well as speed and ease of use. You don't think CCM wished they came up with that system first?  

[althoma1 574]

6 hours ago, mojo122 said:

Guess NHL equipment mangers and players disagree.  Of the 11% of NHL players wearing True skates most have Edge holders on them.  Unless he recently changed last time I saw Marner he was also still sporting edge holders on his Trues'.

From experience I'm not seeing durability issues in my area.

I'm not stating it as fact. That's just my perception based on what I've seen and read. 

When I see steel coming loose in games on TV it's almost always from Bauer Edge holders. I do concede that part of that is because they're the most used holder in the NHL. I believe they're the most used holder in the NHL because they were the first major brand to release a quick release holder (QuickBlade was out first, but they don't have the following Bauer does) and a lot of NHL players grew up playing on Bauer skates so they trust the brand. Once the equipment managers stocked up on the Edge holders it's easier for them to just get as many players on that system as possible. 

I've also read about the Edge holders getting some play in them after being used by heavier players who skate aggressively. I have never used them; so my opinion is only based on what I've seen and read. I'm content to keep trucking along with the CXN holders. It takes a few minutes to swap steel with those, but I don't do it often and I've never had the steel pop out during play. 

[djinferno 2]

On 8/21/2020 at 11:47 PM, boo10 said:

The 2S Pro tongues were not well received in general, so no surprise that Bauer went back to the drawing board on those.  The injected eyelets are still on the Vapor line, so I think it's more about differentiating features between the lines. 

Those injected eyelets still have a failure rate that in my opinion is higher than what is acceptable.  They don't break as much as the original painted ones did, but they still have issues with the stitching eventually failing.  A friend of mine had a skate basically fall off his foot mid-shift when the stitching failed on one entire row.  Now granted, if he took better care of his gear he probably would have noticed they were ready to go, but still that is catastrophic failure that can't happen with traditional eyelets.

I completely agree with this view, I have a pair of 1S skates and the lacing system is its best feature but the failure rate is not acceptable, in 2 years, i had to fix both skates for the second time now...

My repair guy commented that the original thread used is very flimsy, I agree that the Ultrasonic losing this feature is a major downgrade as the lacing is not as consistent from game to game...

Bauer wont admit it but they've had to go backwards and are behind the competition not being able to go to a 1 piece boot, add to the fact that they now sell there flagships for 1150$ canadian, they made sure they made the new 3S Pro with just a regular felt with no protection so if you play competitive, you have to step up if you want protection in the tongue...

These new boots are very similar to what they had with the old One95's in terms of features, only with a new toe cap featuring a rivet...

Edited August 24, 2020 by djinferno

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 8/22/2020 at 10:40 AM, althoma1 said:

Why did you decide to do a full custom Bauer order if you're partial to CCM and True over Bauer for skates? Just to see what they'll be like compared to the retail so you're better informed or do they have features you prefer over True and CCM?

I like to test all of the gear so I have an idea of what we are carrying and selling. It's impossible to talk about product X vs Y vs Z if you have never tested it. 

As it stands, I prefer the skate that first me best over everything else. Currently, that is TRUE skates. 

[justinpryor 5]

skates are such an interesting topic, and subjective. I have never been able to leave bauers skates as I found CCM to be behind in terms of feel on the ice and true and any other skate is bulky and clunky feeling. 

To each their own on skates i think. Iv also never had quality issues and the lacing system on the bauers i think its far superior and a huge selling point. Now its not on the ultrasonic and i fear it wont be on the next vapor when its time to replace my 2xpro

[psulion22 402]

13 hours ago, djinferno said:

I completely agree with this view, I have a pair of 1S skates and the lacing system is its best feature but the failure rate is not acceptable, in 2 years, i had to fix both skates for the second time now...

My repair guy commented that the original thread used is very flimsy, I agree that the Ultrasonic losing this feature is a major downgrade as the lacing is not as consistent from game to game...

Bauer wont admit it but they've had to go backwards and are behind the competition not being able to go to a 1 piece boot, add to the fact that they now sell there flagships for 1150$ canadian, they made sure they made the new 3S Pro with just a regular felt with no protection so if you play competitive, you have to step up if you want protection in the tongue...

These new boots are very similar to what they had with the old One95's in terms of features, only with a new toe cap featuring a rivet...

This boot is a semi-one piece boot.  It's nothing like the One95.  They are wrapping the outsole up the heel and then fusing it to the quarter in the mold, similar to what True does.  The 3S Pro is the same design but they are just gluing and stitching the outsole and not fusing it.  Ultrasonics have the flexible tendon guard, the reflex tongue, significantly better internal foams and liner, a much, much more formable quarter, and a formable lace system.  The whole point of this skate is to wrap around the foot and remove as much negative space as possible.  They're still using the injected facing in the Vapor skates, so it's not a quality decision, but rather a design decision to differentiate between lines.  The tongue on the 3S Pro has Curv composite plates in it to make it heat formable and give protection.  It's not just basic felt.  Even the 3S has a reflex tongue.  I do agree they are probably behind CCM without a true one piece boot, but so is everyone else then too, since CCM is the only one that offers that.

[VegasHockey 1280]

13 minutes ago, justinpryor said:

skates are such an interesting topic, and subjective. I have never been able to leave bauers skates as I found CCM to be behind in terms of feel on the ice and true and any other skate is bulky and clunky feeling. 

To each their own on skates i think. Iv also never had quality issues and the lacing system on the bauers i think its far superior and a huge selling point. Now its not on the ultrasonic and i fear it wont be on the next vapor when its time to replace my 2xpro

I think the injected lacing system will likely remain on the Vapors to help differentiate that model from the Supreme, same with the asymmetrical ankle as well. The only thing I think that will likely be introduced on the newer Vapor that will be shared with the Supreme would be the new outsole design. Though deep down I hope they incorporate more of the Mako into the Vapor and release a one-piece boot type of design.

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 minute ago, psulion22 said:

This boot is a semi-one piece boot.  It's nothing like the One95.  They are wrapping the outsole up the heel and then fusing it to the quarter in the mold, similar to what True does.  The 3S Pro is the same design but they are just gluing and stitching the outsole and not fusing it.  Ultrasonics have the flexible tendon guard, the reflex tongue, significantly better internal foams and liner, a much, much more formable quarter, and a formable lace system.  The whole point of this skate is to wrap around the foot and remove as much negative space as possible.  They're still using the injected facing in the Vapor skates, so it's not a quality decision, but rather a design decision to differentiate between lines.  The tongue on the 3S Pro has Curv composite plates in it to make it heat formable and give protection.  It's not just basic felt.  Even the 3S has a reflex tongue.  I do agree they are probably behind CCM without a true one piece boot, but so is everyone else then too, since CCM is the only one that offers that.

I think the most revolutionary release we will see is the new one-piece Ribcor that is rumored to be released next year. Having a boot thats known to be flexible adapted to a one-piece design will be very interesting. 

I also want to point out, not all "one-piece" skates are created equal. The design of the Mako vs Ultrasonic vs TRUE vs CCM are all significantly different. I think each of them has their pros and cons.

[BenBreeg 493]

1 hour ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

I think the most revolutionary release we will see is the new one-piece Ribcor that is rumored to be released next year. Having a boot thats known to be flexible adapted to a one-piece design will be very interesting. 

That would be interesting.  I like my Ribcores, wouldn't mind a smidgen more snugness in the heel and more wrap on the instep but not a deal breaker.  Maybe I could rationalize custom one-piece Ribcors....

[justinpryor 5]

2 hours ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

I think the injected lacing system will likely remain on the Vapors to help differentiate that model from the Supreme, same with the asymmetrical ankle as well. The only thing I think that will likely be introduced on the newer Vapor that will be shared with the Supreme would be the new outsole design. Though deep down I hope they incorporate more of the Mako into the Vapor and release a one-piece boot type of design.

That would be great, its been a staple for so many years. I was surprised to see it removed on the ultrasonic but if it remains on vapor makes sense to give consumers a choice at retail. Just curious what is so great about the Mako? My last easton skate s19 i think was junk fell apart literally in a year. 

 

[VegasHockey 1280]

3 minutes ago, justinpryor said:

Just curious what is so great about the Mako? My last easton skate s19 i think was junk fell apart literally in a year. 

 

The fit was good, boot had great thermoformability, one-piece, and its design allowed for a good range of motion. 

[justinpryor 5]

14 minutes ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

The fit was good, boot had great thermoformability, one-piece, and its design allowed for a good range of motion. 

alot of people reference the mako, just seems odd those are all features of todays top skates, but again to each their own i think on fit and feel. 

[flip12 714]

3 hours ago, psulion22 said:

I do agree they are probably behind CCM without a true one piece boot, but so is everyone else then too, since CCM is the only one that offers that.

Wait, if CCM has one-piece boots doesn’t True as well?

 

3 hours ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

I think the most revolutionary release we will see is the new one-piece Ribcor that is rumored to be released next year. Having a boot thats known to be flexible adapted to a one-piece design will be very interesting. 

I’m curious to see how the TF7 does in the flexible one-piece category.

[start_today 770]

37 minutes ago, justinpryor said:

alot of people reference the mako, just seems odd those are all features of todays top skates, but again to each their own i think on fit and feel. 

There’s a reeeeeeeeealy long thread on here about Makos. I wasn’t even a huge fan, but they didn’t feel like anything else and were in a league of their own for comfort. 

[psulion22 402]

7 minutes ago, flip12 said:

Wait, if CCM has one-piece boots doesn’t True as well?

I believe the True boot is closer to the Bauer design than the CCM, that being different pieces fused together.  CCM is one, uncut piece of material for the whole boot, except the toe cap.  Bauer and True are taking a quarter piece and a heel/outsole piece and fusing them together with resin in a mold.  Bauer is using Curv composite for the whole thing, while True is varying the materials on each model.

[Hills 712]

47 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

I believe the True boot is closer to the Bauer design than the CCM, that being different pieces fused together.  CCM is one, uncut piece of material for the whole boot, except the toe cap.  Bauer and True are taking a quarter piece and a heel/outsole piece and fusing them together with resin in a mold.  Bauer is using Curv composite for the whole thing, while True is varying the materials on each model.

I'm curious how CCM explains their AS1 skates splitting down what looks like a seam on a bunch of their boots if it is all one piece.

[VegasHockey 1280]

8 minutes ago, Hills said:

I'm curious how CCM explains their AS1 skates splitting down what looks like a seam on a bunch of their boots if it is all one piece.

The previous generations may start with a one-piece frame but there are layers added to it. The new AS3 Pro "seems" to in fact be one-piece but I won't know until we start seeing the first ones start to break down or fail so I can tear the skate down and look at it more in depth. Note: I am not saying the AS3 Pro is by any means a poorly made skate, just that with it being popular we will eventually see some come back under warranty returns, satisfaction guarantee, or due to defects. 

56 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

I believe the True boot is closer to the Bauer design than the CCM, that being different pieces fused together.  CCM is one, uncut piece of material for the whole boot, except the toe cap.  Bauer and True are taking a quarter piece and a heel/outsole piece and fusing them together with resin in a mold.  Bauer is using Curv composite for the whole thing, while True is varying the materials on each model.

The TRUE boot and Bauer Ultrasonic are not even remotely close in design. The TRUE heritage is more closely related to the MLX and MAKO, if anything. 

 

[IPv6Freely 2092]

2 hours ago, justinpryor said:

That would be great, its been a staple for so many years. I was surprised to see it removed on the ultrasonic but if it remains on vapor makes sense to give consumers a choice at retail. Just curious what is so great about the Mako? My last easton skate s19 i think was junk fell apart literally in a year. 

 

The S19 was made by Easton. The Mako was a design purchased from elsewhere. Not really comparable. 

1 hour ago, justinpryor said:

alot of people reference the mako, just seems odd those are all features of todays top skates, but again to each their own i think on fit and feel. 

A lot of people reference the mako because the fit of them was so totally different compared to everything else on the market. 

[djinferno 2]

4 hours ago, psulion22 said:

This boot is a semi-one piece boot.  It's nothing like the One95.  They are wrapping the outsole up the heel and then fusing it to the quarter in the mold, similar to what True does.  The 3S Pro is the same design but they are just gluing and stitching the outsole and not fusing it.  Ultrasonics have the flexible tendon guard, the reflex tongue, significantly better internal foams and liner, a much, much more formable quarter, and a formable lace system.  The whole point of this skate is to wrap around the foot and remove as much negative space as possible.  They're still using the injected facing in the Vapor skates, so it's not a quality decision, but rather a design decision to differentiate between lines.  The tongue on the 3S Pro has Curv composite plates in it to make it heat formable and give protection.  It's not just basic felt.  Even the 3S has a reflex tongue.  I do agree they are probably behind CCM without a true one piece boot, but so is everyone else then too, since CCM is the only one that offers that.

Dude, if you really think the differences between the one95 boot and the 3Spro boot, you are really drinking the Koolaid, things like formable quarters, and a formable lace systems are not anything new, all laces form...

i still have my one95 boot, even there tendon guard at the time had the same function and is not that big of an advancement, the 3Spro does not even have the protection in the tongue the One95 had... You're gobbling all this advertising up but you fail to realize that they explain everything on the boot and breaking it down so they can charge you double for the same thing...

 

As for the Ultasonic, at the price point, all your really getting is pro level steel and a better tongue, hopefully the failures wont be as many as the last 2 flagships