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Ellipse Profiles – The next revolution in skate profiling?

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@kkskate  Hey Anthony, any chance you can do an analysis or post some pics of the elipse1 skate template on top of a quad1 and a quad 0.5 template or vice versa?

You did the ellipse1 profile on my 288 step steel blades for my grafs and I love the feeling of stability and speed in the middle and rear portions of my blades.  I've gotten over and adjusted to the catching of my front toe area while skating, but i feel like i have a huge desire for a little more aggressive radius in the front 1/3rd of the blade.  I am curious if quad 1 or quad 0.5 will give me what i want.

As i know it, the quad1 is 6'-9'-12'-15' and the quad 0.5 is 8'-10'-12'-14'.  I just want to see if we can determine what the ellpise1 is closest to in terms of middle and rear portion of the blade profile and if either or both quads can give me that little more aggressive front radius.  Hopefully I can choose one and then send it in to you for profiling.

Edited by noupf
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19 hours ago, noupf said:

@kkskate  Hey Anthony, any chance you can do an analysis or post some pics of the elipse1 skate template on top of a quad1 and a quad 0.5 template or vice versa?

You did the ellipse1 profile on my 288 step steel blades for my grafs and I love the feeling of stability and speed in the middle and rear portions of my blades.  I've gotten over and adjusted to the catching of my front toe area while skating, but i feel like i have a huge desire for a little more aggressive radius in the front 1/3rd of the blade.  I am curious if quad 1 or quad 0.5 will give me what i want.

As i know it, the quad1 is 6'-9'-12'-15' and the quad 0.5 is 8'-10'-12'-14'.  I just want to see if we can determine what the ellpise1 is closest to in terms of middle and rear portion of the blade profile and if either or both quads can give me that little more aggressive front radius.  Hopefully I can choose one and then send it in to you for profiling.

The difference between the profile templates is so minimal in terms something you can see I don’t think it would help.  If you want a bit more agility the Quad or other Ellipse might help.  Contact me directly and I can call you.

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If you want more performance, I would try the Quad 1, if you want it smoother I would try the Quad 0.5. But it's all try and error and personal preference. I love the performance of my Quad XS on 254mm.

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22 hours ago, noupf said:

@kkskate  Hey Anthony, any chance you can do an analysis or post some pics of the elipse1 skate template on top of a quad1 and a quad 0.5 template or vice versa?

You did the ellipse1 profile on my 288 step steel blades for my grafs and I love the feeling of stability and speed in the middle and rear portions of my blades.  I've gotten over and adjusted to the catching of my front toe area while skating, but i feel like i have a huge desire for a little more aggressive radius in the front 1/3rd of the blade.  I am curious if quad 1 or quad 0.5 will give me what i want.

As i know it, the quad1 is 6'-9'-12'-15' and the quad 0.5 is 8'-10'-12'-14'.  I just want to see if we can determine what the ellpise1 is closest to in terms of middle and rear portion of the blade profile and if either or both quads can give me that little more aggressive front radius.  Hopefully I can choose one and then send it in to you for profiling.

You can achieve a more aggressive toe by offsetting the centre line when your profile with the elipse. If you want an ellipse to match a quad 0.5 or quad 1 profile it can get close but not exact. I’ve analyzing the templets. What you were asking for is the quad one sheet, but with the smoothness of the elipse.  That is the Omni quad one. Check out my Facebook page for a good image that describes the Omni quads. The image is of the quad one with a 6 foot toe and 15 foot heel smoothly blended all the way across the blade.

 

https://m.facebook.com/LaSalleSkateShop/?tsid=0.6065308458443983&source=result

Edited by Paluce

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This is one of those strawmen to me.  Who says there are "harsh transitions" on Quads?  I have been skating on Q0 for three years and don't notice the transitions.  It's not like it goes from a 12' and instantly changes to a 9'.  It's not scalloped.  Like many transitions between different radius arcs, there is what is called an easement, that gradually changes from one radius to another or straight to curve or vice versa. 

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22 minutes ago, BenBreeg said:

This is one of those strawmen to me.  Who says there are "harsh transitions" on Quads?  I have been skating on Q0 for three years and don't notice the transitions.  It's not like it goes from a 12' and instantly changes to a 9'.  It's not scalloped.  Like many transitions between different radius arcs, there is what is called an easement, that gradually changes from one radius to another or straight to curve or vice versa. 

yea I've read through this thread extensively, multiple times and came to that conclusion too.  This is my first set of profiled blades in my 20+ years of skating, and for me, the idea of the ellipse made a lot of sense, as its one continuous arc, but like you said, if done properly on the quads, ( and I assume pro sharp does it as proper as they can ), the easement between each radius is there, and virtually un-noticeable.

I almost wish i didn't find this whole profiling thing.  Once I get immersed into something, I have to follow through with exploring all avenues......which is where I'm at.  I need to try some other profiles to find the one i like the best.  I really like the middle and rear portions of the ellipse1, I just feel like I'd benefit from a little shorter of a radius in the font 1/3rd of the blade to help with my first couple acceleration steps.

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35 minutes ago, noupf said:

yea I've read through this thread extensively, multiple times and came to that conclusion too.  This is my first set of profiled blades in my 20+ years of skating, and for me, the idea of the ellipse made a lot of sense, as its one continuous arc, but like you said, if done properly on the quads, ( and I assume pro sharp does it as proper as they can ), the easement between each radius is there, and virtually un-noticeable.

I almost wish i didn't find this whole profiling thing.  Once I get immersed into something, I have to follow through with exploring all avenues......which is where I'm at.  I need to try some other profiles to find the one i like the best.  I really like the middle and rear portions of the ellipse1, I just feel like I'd benefit from a little shorter of a radius in the font 1/3rd of the blade to help with my first couple acceleration steps.

Starting to agree here as well. Didn't like the Zuperior (tho it was on a 263, and I'm unsure what size.)

Now I have 254s (down-sized my skates) and have used Bauer's Power Profile (Quad XS, 17mm PP), a profile from Pro Connexion in Winnipeg that they couldn't tell me the name of but alluded that it was some sort of quad, and just came off an hour of ice time with an ellipse XS. I'd consider myself a pretty decent skater, played hockey my entire life; Jr. A, minors blah blah and I could hardly tell (if any) difference in the profiles now. 

Seemed few months ago I was bit intrigued by it as I had been off the blades for some years. Now that I have my stride and technique back... Quad and Ellipse (size for my suggested blade length anyway) feel very, very similar. I am starting to be more intrigued now by the hollows, and trying to get use to a more shallow hollow, allows for higher top speed, more glide.

Anyone here try the FBV sharpening system? 
And who has an opinion on the OMNI quads?
What about Quad 0.5?

Happy weekend everyone

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4 hours ago, Ric_Flair said:

Starting to agree here as well. Didn't like the Zuperior (tho it was on a 263, and I'm unsure what size.)

Now I have 254s (down-sized my skates) and have used Bauer's Power Profile (Quad XS, 17mm PP), a profile from Pro Connexion in Winnipeg that they couldn't tell me the name of but alluded that it was some sort of quad, and just came off an hour of ice time with an ellipse XS. I'd consider myself a pretty decent skater, played hockey my entire life; Jr. A, minors blah blah and I could hardly tell (if any) difference in the profiles now. 

Seemed few months ago I was bit intrigued by it as I had been off the blades for some years. Now that I have my stride and technique back... Quad and Ellipse (size for my suggested blade length anyway) feel very, very similar. I am starting to be more intrigued now by the hollows, and trying to get use to a more shallow hollow, allows for higher top speed, more glide.

Anyone here try the FBV sharpening system? 
And who has an opinion on the OMNI quads?
What about Quad 0.5?

Happy weekend everyone

OMNI Quad 0.5 is my personal favourite with a 92/75 FBV sharpen.   A lot of the older guys around here like aslo like a 90/75 FBV. Some of the young AAA kids in the area love a 90/1 for the extra bite. 
 

And yes the transitions between the rads on the quads are tangent to each other, but you do have 4 distinct “zones”.  The OMNI’s gradually change the local radius as you move down the blade, just like the elipse. But as people have said before, with the OMNI Quads, you know what you are getting. OMNI Quad 1 is 6’ at the toe, and 15’ at the heal smoothly blended. OMNI Quad 0.5 is 8’ at the toe 14’ at the heal… OMNI quad 0, or 2… you know what you are getting.  It’s just better In my opinion.

Edited by Paluce
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On 12/10/2021 at 5:33 PM, Ric_Flair said:

Starting to agree here as well. Didn't like the Zuperior (tho it was on a 263, and I'm unsure what size.)

Now I have 254s (down-sized my skates) and have used Bauer's Power Profile (Quad XS, 17mm PP), a profile from Pro Connexion in Winnipeg that they couldn't tell me the name of but alluded that it was some sort of quad, and just came off an hour of ice time with an ellipse XS. I'd consider myself a pretty decent skater, played hockey my entire life; Jr. A, minors blah blah and I could hardly tell (if any) difference in the profiles now. 

Seemed few months ago I was bit intrigued by it as I had been off the blades for some years. Now that I have my stride and technique back... Quad and Ellipse (size for my suggested blade length anyway) feel very, very similar. I am starting to be more intrigued now by the hollows, and trying to get use to a more shallow hollow, allows for higher top speed, more glide.

Anyone here try the FBV sharpening system? 
And who has an opinion on the OMNI quads?
What about Quad 0.5?

Happy weekend everyone

Used ellipse XS (on 254 blades) for 1.5 hours of a good, fast beer league game last night. Noticeable difference (negative) in turning/pivoting quickly. Back to the Quad XS it is for me. 

Can anyone comment on how the blade responds to being re-profiled with a new profile? For example, I had a brand new Pulse Ti profiled to the Ellipse described above. I want to have to profiled to a Quad XS... will it effect the blade any; in specific will it be able to achieve the exact Quad XS that it would have, had I not had it profiled to Ellipse from beginning? My local guy says the toe/heel may be not get to where it would/should have... @kkskate, what you think?

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On 12/10/2021 at 1:09 PM, hockeydad3 said:

If you want more performance, I would try the Quad 1, if you want it smoother I would try the Quad 0.5. But it's all try and error and personal preference. I love the performance of my Quad XS on 254mm.

Now that I'm able to "dial in" to how I perform with the profiles, I agree 100%. Quad XS on the 254s = awesome! 

Have you tried/what you think of the OMNI Quad (at least in theory, if you haven't tried)?

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2 hours ago, Ric_Flair said:

Can anyone comment on how the blade responds to being re-profiled with a new profile? For example, I had a brand new Pulse Ti profiled to the Ellipse described above. I want to have to profiled to a Quad XS... will it effect the blade any; in specific will it be able to achieve the exact Quad XS that it would have, had I not had it profiled to Ellipse from beginning? My local guy says the toe/heel may be not get to where it would/should have... @kkskate, what you think?

If you know what happened to the steel before, and the profiler knows his job, it should be the same. 

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1 hour ago, Ric_Flair said:

Have you tried/what you think of the OMNI Quad (at least in theory, if you haven't tried)?

I didn't try it. I don't even know if there is a Omni profile developed for 254mm blades. You have to try and compare it to make a decision. I don't think that there is a "one fits all" profile. 

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11 minutes ago, hockeydad3 said:

I didn't try it. I don't even know if there is a Omni profile developed for 254mm blades. You have to try and compare it to make a decision. I don't think that there is a "one fits all" profile. 

Yea, I understand. But from my understanding (at least) the OMNI Quad comes in all the same sizes (XXXS, XXS, XS, 0... etc), but just use a smoother transition between the "zones"... or maybe I misunderstood?

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10 minutes ago, Ric_Flair said:

Yea, I understand. But from my understanding (at least) the OMNI Quad comes in all the same sizes (XXXS, XXS, XS, 0... etc), but just use a smoother transition between the "zones"... or maybe I misunderstood?

And we still don't know about the detailed construction of the profile(angles, length of the radii, pivot point and so on). 

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1 hour ago, Ric_Flair said:

Yea, I understand. But from my understanding (at least) the OMNI Quad comes in all the same sizes (XXXS, XXS, XS, 0... etc), but just use a smoother transition between the "zones"... or maybe I misunderstood?

That's what they say...  but smoother compared to what they characterize as "harsh" transitions on regular Quads (their marketing department's words, I never heard any user describe them as such)...

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1 hour ago, hockeydad3 said:

And we still don't know about the detailed construction of the profile(angles, length of the radii, pivot point and so on). 

This is true. I was assuming all else parallel to Quad... but i guess it's not as simple as that perhaps

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7 minutes ago, BenBreeg said:

That's what they say...  but smoother compared to what they characterize as "harsh" transitions on regular Quads (their marketing department's words, I never heard any user describe them as such)...

And... well said @BenBreeg. I don't find them harsh... so I guess I found my answer. 
More marketing than anything

Edited by Ric_Flair

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3 hours ago, Ric_Flair said:

This is true. I was assuming all else parallel to Quad... but i guess it's not as simple as that perhaps

This is what my son skates on.  8' toe, smoothly transitioned to a 13' heal on a 212 runner using a Quad 0.5 Template, and 0.035" less steel in the front to get the forward lean dialed in for him.     

The beauty of the OMNI runners is that is changes continuously.... )  8', 8.1', 8.2', 8.3',8.4', 8.5'... ............... all the way to  ->14'      I could profile these blades with a 8.5' -> almost 14' if I shifted the steel back for more speed.   Get it...?  

You can achieve a Quad XS on a 254 blade by adjusting the centerline forward on a Quad 0 template and you get a 6' toe, 12' heal smoothly transitioned.   (basically you don't use the whole 6' to 13' Quad 0 on the 254 blade as I did in my image below.)

With the 4 zones on traditional Quads you can't really do this.   You can but you will get one zone in the front very long, and one in the heal very short or maybe missing which is not good.    

When I Profile people's skates I tell them the Profile Template I used, and the radius from the heal to the toe, as well as the steel height at the heal and toe where it is profiled to they know the pitch.

These Blades are: 

Quad 0.5 Profile: 8' toe, 13' heal.   0.715" steel at the toe, 0.750" steel height at the heal.  92/75 FBV sharp.      And both blades are identical when they leave within a thou.    

 

thumbnail_IMG_2432.jpg

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3 hours ago, BenBreeg said:

That's what they say...  but smoother compared to what they characterize as "harsh" transitions on regular Quads (their marketing department's words, I never heard any user describe them as such)...

just to add,  the word harsh is not any company's marketing department...  Those were my words to try and get the point of the smooth transition across to everyone. I apologize if it came across that way.   I removed that word in my post as I can see how it can be taken negatively 🙂 . sorry boys.  

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3 minutes ago, Paluce said:

just to add,  the word harsh is not any company's marketing department...  Those were my words to try and get the point of the smooth transition across to everyone. I apologize if it came across that way.   I removed that word in my post as I can see how it can be taken negatively 🙂 . sorry boys.  

Gotcha, didn't mean to misrepresent.  I actually thought you had some connection to them, shouldn't have jumped to conclusions.

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56 minutes ago, BenBreeg said:

Gotcha, didn't mean to misrepresent.  I actually thought you had some connection to them, shouldn't have jumped to conclusions.

No Worries,  I'm just a guy that loves helping people dial in their skates the way they like em 😉 . I hardly even charge people if they want to try a new profile or something like that. If I do, it's like $20.  I just did this fellow's skates with an OMNI... After years of sharpenings, he had a banana'd blade and no blade contact with the ice. I ground that back a little, and put an OMNI Profile on there and bang. Things are great for him, and I'm so happy.           Also, Someone mentioned if you put a profile on the blade,  can you go back...  the answer is yes, you can.   

thumbnail_IMG_2434(1).jpg?width=450&heig

Edited by Paluce
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