New True Catalyst Skates

[flip12 712]

27 minutes ago, birky said:

Has anyone gone from Fit 1 Vapors to these? I've been in Vapors for 15 years, and my current pair is a 9.0R (from before the Fit 1/2/3 era, which I believe means I'd be in a Fit 1 today). Just curious for anyone's experience, as I'm very interested in trying the Catalyst skates.

Fits 1, 2, and 3 are completely new lasts. Vapor lasts from before don’t correspond to the new system. There have been quite a few people on here posting that they don’t fit any of the new fit numbers as well as they did their old Vapors.

I think some confusion comes from Bauer’s old 3 fits—Vapor, Supreme, and Nexus, and a lot of people thinking those were now renamed 1, 2, and 3. That would allow you to get a Vapor built on a Supreme or Nexus last, or a Supreme built on a Vapor or Nexus last, as well as their ‘native’ lasts, but instead Bauer created 3 new fits to best suit the data they collected with their 3D foot scanning app.

Edited September 19, 2022 by flip12

[BenBreeg 493]

4 hours ago, flip12 said:

Fits 1, 2, and 3 are completely new lasts. Vapor lasts from before don’t correspond to the new system. There have been quite a few people on here posting that they don’t fit any of the new fit numbers as well as they did their old Vapors.

I think some confusion comes from Bauer’s old 3 fits—Vapor, Supreme, and Nexus, and a lot of people thinking those were now renamed 1, 2, and 3. That would allow you to get a Vapor built on a Supreme or Nexus last, or a Supreme built on a Vapor or Nexus last, as well as their ‘native’ lasts, but instead Bauer created 3 new fits to best suit the data they collected with their 3D foot scanning app.

Good info because I also assumed that Fits 1, 2, and 3 generally correlated to Vapor, Supreme, and Nexus.

[althoma1 574]

On 9/18/2022 at 11:42 PM, Hills said:

Yeah... I have heard just the "steel is bent" but I have a hard time believe all of this steel went into the holders already bent and weren't bent over time from improper holder mount...

I dropped by the Leaside Sport Chek to get my skates sharpened today and figured I'd try on a pair of 7.5W CAT9 skates while I was there and see if they used a 263mm or 272mm holder. They showed that size in stock online (it says limited stock for Leaside, but out of stock for most other locations in the GTA), but when I got there the sales rep said that all the Catalyst skates they had were recalled and they were waiting to be restocked. I suspect that's likely due to the holder alignment issues. I needed my skates sharpened anyway and don't need new skates anyway, but I just thought that was interesting.

Another customer was there that had broken steel on older Supremes with a Lightspeed holder. He was having a hell of a time trying to get replacement steel - that location didn't have any and he'd already tried Pro Hockey Life and Just Hockey. He was actually starting to consider just getting new skates - the rep directed him to the Bauer M4 skates. I politely suggested he at least try on the True TF9/TF7 skates if they had his size in stock (and told him about them feeling too tight before baking and most people needing to go down a half size vs. Bauer) since they had the TF9s on for $499 and the TF7s for $299, plus today is the last day of the friends and family sale which gives people an additional 10% off of sale items or 25% of regular priced items. The Catalyst skates would've been an option as well had they not been recalled. I'm not sure what he ended up doing as I just browsed around for 15 minutes after that and then left after my skates were ready.

The one review, from about a month ago, on the Sport Chek site for the CAT9 specifically mentions the holder issue (well, they think the bent steel put stress on the holder, but it's much more likely the misaligned holder bent the steel):

I bought these skates and couldn’t of been happier as the fit is amazing and feels like nothing I’ve never worn before. When the store took the blades out one blade was really warped when held up to the other blade and when put back into the holder you can clearly see that the holder was under stress from the bent blade. I contacted true warranty and they they said what you’d expect them to say “we will replace the blade”. I got some more advice from the guys at the pro shop and they said return them as they have had nothing but problems with this model.

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by althoma1

[Jbear 113]

Re: Vapor 2xPro fit. I had a pair of 7.5 D and then 7.5 fit 2...not the same.  The D was locked in all around with a slightly too narrow mid-forefoot that was fine after a little heat gun work.  The fit 2 were slightly too loose all around and I couldn't get rid of the slop.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Jbear

[bl4 39]

16 hours ago, flip12 said:

@bl4 do you have any other tongues you could try in your boots? Trying a thicker classic felt tongue could help, as long as it's not too stiff (usually tendon protection in tongues tends to be quite stiff). You might be able to get better lace tension and heel lock without having to crank down on the tongue too much. I don't know the Cat tongue yet, but tongues with too much stiffness can impede proper forward flexion when cranked down with tight lacing.

Thanks for the suggestion, but unfortunately I don't. 

Also, @Hills, I tried to remove my steel, and - like you - I was unable to. 

At this point, I'm thinking that I might chalk the Cats up to an unsuccessful experiment on my part.  I'll try another skate or two, but I'm honestly not inclined to try to start modifying the skates if I can return them.  I liked the idea of the Trues, and there's clearly a lot that's great about them.  But if I'm dealing with skates that don't seem to fit, maybe need different tongues, and need at least new steel (if not also re-mounted holders), then it's just not worth it for me, and I'll see if I can try some Fit 1 Bauers.

[flip12 712]

7 hours ago, BenBreeg said:

Good info because I also assumed that Fits 1, 2, and 3 generally correlated to Vapor, Supreme, and Nexus.

It's still a little confusing, because they try hard to map the old fits to the new ones, for obvious reasons. It doesn't always work. John Davidson, Bauer's skate guru calls fit 1 "very very similar to a Vapor D width skate."

This one has some visuals of the dataset and how the fit system roughly maps to it.

It's interesting to me how they decide to show the borders between the three fits (2:05) as discrete lines, as though right around the line a particular foot is clearly meant for fit 1, but just nudged a little bit in proportions and it's destined for fit 2. A spray painted fuzzy border seems more appropriate, but maybe not as confidently convincing, as nuance isn't typically welcome in the mainstream of anything. Another interesting visual would have been plotting the actual lasts themselves. They should be representable as distinct points in that scatter plot, and then we could actually see how "very very similar" they actually are. Funnily enough, that concrete comparison isn't readily discovered.

Since this is a True thread, it's nice to think about how these relate: True comes along with their highly adaptive molding technology, Bauer's adapts not by improving their skates' moldability but instead by creating more bins (3 instead of 2 per line) to fit as many feet as possible. True, on the other hand, has that nice moldability, and is tuning the feel of their skates, but it's not user-friendly. The struggles recently mentioned by @bl4 and @Hills in his video review remind me of my process with two pairs (first too big, then the right size) of MLX skates. I've tried a lot, and finally have come close to a very hacked solution. Most people are not patient enough to do that experimentation, and there isn't much information to help them anyway. When dropping several hundred dollars on a purchase that has a small regret window, it's no wonder people don't want to try that much. The future of skates seems really promising, but for now, there are some apparent growing pains. I have a feeling they'll be over soon, though.

[Hockeydad97 3]

Anyone have experience with true warranty? My steel on the cat 9 was replaced by the store because of the bent steel issue left side.  First game back the new set on right blade snapped in half. The store has no others in my size. True warranty says they are sending me new steel but I’ve yet to get tracking info after 2 days and I am wondering how long others have waited for true warranty issues. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

17 hours ago, Hockeydad97 said:

Anyone have experience with true warranty? My steel on the cat 9 was replaced by the store because of the bent steel issue left side.  First game back the new set on right blade snapped in half. The store has no others in my size. True warranty says they are sending me new steel but I’ve yet to get tracking info after 2 days and I am wondering how long others have waited for true warranty issues. 

Usually, steel sent from them directly takes about 3-5 days. Cant the store you bought them from take steel out of another pair of TRUE skates?

[Hockeydad97 3]

The store replaced once already for original bent steel gave me new steel from what is supposed to be new batch of steel and the only set they had ... The new steel didn’t just bend it snapped.. im actually not impressed with True as they want to send me yet another set of the same steel. Two times is enough. I specifically said sent me different steel dlc anything,not a third set of the same.. considering I’ll likely have to eat the cost of another sharpening and profiling or drive another hour to the original point of sake and hope they do it free.. I don’t think I’m asking to much.. as of now still waiting on true warranty for info.

for reference I bought my skates in Ottawa area if anyone knows the True rep in that area I’d love to hear from him..

also do note the store is not to blame they were great with the FIRST replacement 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Hockeydad97

[althoma1 574]

1 hour ago, Hockeydad97 said:

The store replaced once already for original bent steel gave me new steel from what is supposed to be new batch of steel and the only set they had ... The new steel didn’t just bend it snapped.. im actually not impressed with True as they want to send me yet another set of the same steel. Two times is enough. I specifically said sent me different steel dlc anything,not a third set of the same.. considering I’ll likely have to eat the cost of another sharpening and profiling or drive another hour to the original point of sake and hope they do it free.. I don’t think I’m asking to much.. as of now still waiting on true warranty for info.

for reference I bought my skates in Ottawa area if anyone knows the True rep in that area I’d love to hear from him..

also do note the store is not to blame they were great with the FIRST replacement 

I'd suspect the holders are misaligned and that's what's causing the steel to bend/break. I haven't been there myself (since I'm in Toronto), but I've seen some YouTube videos from B-Sharp in Ottawa on the True skates and they seem quite knowledgeable. If that's not where you're going already, I'd try going to a shop like that and have them inspect the holder mount to make sure it's aligned properly. If it's a holder alignment issue, you'll continue to have steel problems. 

[Hockeydad97 3]

Could be the holders , the left side I could see being a bit off possibly but the right holder appears to be absolutely centred.  I’m no pro skate shop guy though 🤷‍♂️ 

if they insist on sending me the same blades to try a third time, I’m likely just going to bring the skates back. Not worth the frustration with brand new skates

[bl4 39]

First off, huge thanks for all the thoughts.  And, particularly, huge thanks to @flip12 who sent me some very helpful suggestions - a reminder of how great this site can be.

I took my Cat 9s back to my LHS today. They were able to remove the steel with some effort. The left was slightly warped.  The right was dramatically curved.  They checked a bunch of the other pairs in the shop and found many others warped but eventually fixed me up with an un-warped set of steel.  They concluded that the issue was the steel itself, rather than the holder mounting.

We experimented with some additional foam pieces under both heels and put in the arch insert on one skate, all of which seemed to help.  I'm still skeptical - I've never needed to resort to inserts (beyond SuperFeet) in any skates before.  But, I'm hoping that they'll feel better this time around.  (I'm sure that skating on straight steel will help, at the very least!)

Do any of you use SuperFeet with Trues?  I wonder whether they might help and might make for a more stable long-term solution than the assorted foam pieces.

[Jbear 113]

I'm going to try that tomorrow. I didn't dislike the True inserts from a comfort standpoint.  I'm more concerned with performance though. Lot's of things that feel ok at a public session don't work with force and speed.  I'll let you know. 

[Westside 232]

3 hours ago, bl4 said:

Do any of you use SuperFeet with Trues?

I use superfeet comfort in my TF9s. Had carbons in for a quick minute but they pushed my arch up a bit too high causing blisters on my arch 

[Hills 712]

17 hours ago, bl4 said:

First off, huge thanks for all the thoughts.  And, particularly, huge thanks to @flip12 who sent me some very helpful suggestions - a reminder of how great this site can be.

I took my Cat 9s back to my LHS today. They were able to remove the steel with some effort. The left was slightly warped.  The right was dramatically curved.  They checked a bunch of the other pairs in the shop and found many others warped but eventually fixed me up with an un-warped set of steel.  They concluded that the issue was the steel itself, rather than the holder mounting.

We experimented with some additional foam pieces under both heels and put in the arch insert on one skate, all of which seemed to help.  I'm still skeptical - I've never needed to resort to inserts (beyond SuperFeet) in any skates before.  But, I'm hoping that they'll feel better this time around.  (I'm sure that skating on straight steel will help, at the very least!)

Do any of you use SuperFeet with Trues?  I wonder whether they might help and might make for a more stable long-term solution than the assorted foam pieces.

Depending on the True skate I use SuperFeet in them. My customs have SF because if they didn't my toes were constantly jammed to the ends, SF pulls them back and makes the fit better.

I am using SF in my Cat Pros for the same reason as above. But in my custom goalie skates it hasn't been needed.

[VegasHockey 1280]

I like the new TRUE footbeds that come with the Cat Pro and SVH Customs. 

Also am a major fan of Superfeet and Bauer Speedplate footbeds too. All that matters is finding the footbed that works best for your foot and needs. 

Overall, the best bang for your buck is the Superfeet Comfort footbeds. A good mix of fit, performance, and comfort for a decent price. 

[birky 24]

Anyone have insight as to the odd pricing in US ($760 usd) vs Canada ($799 cad)? Even after factoring in the higher Canadian sales tax, it would be significantly cheaper to purchase from a retailer in Canada and ship to the US given the exchange rate.

Edit: some online retailers in Canada appear to be selling the Cat 9s at $799 and others at $860

Edited September 26, 2022 by birky

[VegasHockey 1280]

4 hours ago, birky said:

Anyone have insight as to the odd pricing in US ($760 usd) vs Canada ($799 cad)? Even after factoring in the higher Canadian sales tax, it would be significantly cheaper to purchase from a retailer in Canada and ship to the US given the exchange rate.

Edit: some online retailers in Canada appear to be selling the Cat 9s at $799 and others at $860

Retailers in Canada are not supposed to ship to USA. 

[bl4 39]

Maybe I should post this on the general True/SVH thread, but does anyone have experience with returning stock True skates?  What does the process look like?

I know that True advertises a 30-day return window, and I'm still within that time frame.  I don't want to make trouble for my LHS, but I also don't want to be stuck with a pair of skates that don't fit me.

 

[VegasHockey 1280]

2 hours ago, bl4 said:

Maybe I should post this on the general True/SVH thread, but does anyone have experience with returning stock True skates?  What does the process look like?

I know that True advertises a 30-day return window, and I'm still within that time frame.  I don't want to make trouble for my LHS, but I also don't want to be stuck with a pair of skates that don't fit me.

 

Just bring them back with the receipt and they will refund you. 

[birky 24]

I reached out to True today about the issue with the warped runners since I'm interested in buying a pair of Cat 9s soonish. They replied that any issues should be resolved now. They've sent replacement runners out to all of their dealers and their own inventory has been handled as well.

[Sniper9 529]

For those who have the retail catalyst skates, how are the boots holding up to normal game play wear. Cuts gashes etc. I have the cat pros and they came with a protective film sheet that was stuck on to provide extra protection to the carbon fiber. I had a few gashes on the film so I removed it completely but now I'm worried the carbon is gonna get banged up a lot easier. I realize the retail boots don't have this film so wondering if you guys could chime in. 

[Doug Bierleaguer 4]

I bought some almost new True Catalyst 5's without blades, and now have received some used blades.  Trying them out Monday. I wear size 8R in Grafs and CCM's, I got 8.5R in these.  8's may have worked, but side by side length heel to toe matches between my Grafs and Trues, the insole size is the same. They are so comfy after baking, just snug everywhere, I hope that they are great to skate on.  It seems like the tops really wrap around the foot in these skates, meaning that in my CCM's there is a wide gap when looking at the laces and in the trues a very narrow GAP, a skinny looking boot.  Guys I have bunions and these skates need no punching. 

[Westside 232]

2 hours ago, Doug Bierleaguer said:

I bought some almost new True Catalyst 5's I wear size 8R in Grafs and CCM's, I got 8.5R in these.  

I’d you went UP a half size from CCM, these skates are pretty much guaranteed to be a half size too big. Cats should be the same size as CCM/Bauer. The TF line was a half size *smaller*

[krisdrum 233]

10 hours ago, Westside said:

I’d you went UP a half size from CCM, these skates are pretty much guaranteed to be a half size too big. Cats should be the same size as CCM/Bauer. The TF line was a half size *smaller*

Agree.  I was a 5 in Grafs (the older ones tend to run a bit short), 4.5 in CCMs and currently in TF9 size 4.  If I were to get a pair of Cats, I'd be looking at 4.5.