Supreme vs Vapor - Skating Technique?

[walkerdb7 20]

SUPREME MACH is designed to boost your stride length and maximize your top end speed

HYPERLITE 2 skate is built for pro-level and pro-aspiring players looking for maximum quickness and unrivaled agility

WTF does this mean?

I am a fit 2. Eyeing up purchasing that "last pair" pair mentality. Normally play goalie, but coaching my son and on the ice a lot more. Skating out a bit more and might not play net for too much longer. Current skates are the OG One100s.

How the heck do I know which boot design works my skating style? haha. Can I get a golf fitting for skates?

Edited August 31, 2023 by walkerdb7

[IPv6Freely 2096]

Just marketing nonsense. Pick the one that fits you better. 

[walkerdb7 20]

Isn't the point of Fit 2 mean they should fit the same? I figured the difference in tendon guard, tongues, eyelits, etc would translate to some different feeling or flex on the ice?

[beedee 227]

32 minutes ago, walkerdb7 said:

Isn't the point of Fit 2 mean they should fit the same? I figured the difference in tendon guard, tongues, eyelits, etc would translate to some different feeling or flex on the ice?

In theory yes, but in reality, no.

Also, the Vapors will have you pitched more forward than the Supremes. I made the switch from 3x Vapors to Supreme Machs earlier this year. At first the Machs made me feel like I was only skating on my heels and the back half of the steel. I quickly adjusted after a few public skates and a couple beer league games.

[Jbear 113]

As IP said, it means nothing. Put them on, flex them, lean on your edges in both directions. Go with what feels best.  I currently skate 4-6x week  between playing and coaching. I'm in in AS3 PRO, 100k Pro, and Machs. I've also skated extensively in 2xPros, 70k, 80k, AS1. I skate like me in all of them...they just have different fits and feel.  Close your eyes whatever makes you wanna go for a slide...that's the one. 

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

Pretty much all marketing jargon, but there are some differences in the actual boots.  Mostly fit, but also some boots are stiffer in certain areas than others.  However, I'm sure Connor McDavid will still skate like Connor McDavid regardless of which boot he puts on if you get what I mean.

[walkerdb7 20]

2 hours ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

Pretty much all marketing jargon, but there are some differences in the actual boots.  Mostly fit, but also some boots are stiffer in certain areas than others.  However, I'm sure Connor McDavid will still skate like Connor McDavid regardless of which boot he puts on if you get what I mean.

I get that, but comments like that bug me too. I am not a pro and don't much care what they use. Most of them avoid change anyway because they comfortable with a certain product. Has 0 to do with what works best for me.

I also feel like Bauer employs legit engineers to design the skates, test them, and makes sure there are distinctions with both lines. Looking at sticks as an example, I got to mess with a few different models. I notice a difference shooting with a Vapor and a Nexus stick. I also think a top price point stick is noticeably better performing than a mid price point one.

Can I score a goal with all of them? Yes, absolutely. But, when I am going to go use my hard earned dinero on a stick, I feel like a high end nexus performs better for me. That makes the game more fun for me

Edited September 1, 2023 by walkerdb7

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

7 minutes ago, walkerdb7 said:

I get that, but comments like that bug me too. I am not a pro and don't much care what they use. Most of them avoid change anyway because they comfortable with a certain product. Has 0 to do with what works best for me.

I also feel like Bauer employs legit engineers to design the skates, test them, and makes sure there are distinctions with both lines. Looking at sticks as an example, I got to mess with a few different models. I notice a difference shooting with a Vapor and a Nexus stick. I also think a top price point stick is noticeably better performing than a mid price point one.

Can I score a goal with all of them? Yes, absolutely. But, when I am going to go use my hard earned dinero on a stick, I feel like a high end nexus performs better for me. That makes the game more fun for me

I don't know what to tell you....  Are you asking if Vapors make you more agile, and Machs make you faster, etc.?  Is a mid-kick for slap shots (and defensemen), whereas a low-kick is for snappers (forwards)?  IMHO that's all marketing, cause good shooters can rip slappers with low-kick sticks, and fast skaters can be super agile in Machs and vice versa.  If you're asking for something that suits you best, then that's a different question.  Sure, there's all personal preference and I understand that.  I prefer mid-kick sticks, cause that's what I'm used to, but I can shoot just as well with a low-kick.  But if you think by buying Vapors over Machs you're going to be more agile but lose speed (with fit being equal), then you're falling for the marketing jargon.  Like I said before, the biggest difference in the product lines for skates is fit.  Go with the one that fits you best, not which one promises more of certain skill attribute.

[walkerdb7 20]

6 minutes ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

I don't know what to tell you....  Are you asking if Vapors make you more agile, and Machs make you faster, etc.?  Is a mid-kick for slap shots (and defensemen), whereas a low-kick is for snappers (forwards)?  IMHO that's all marketing, cause good shooters can rip slappers with low-kick sticks, and fast skaters can be super agile in Machs and vice versa.  If you're asking for something that suits you best, then that's a different question.  Sure, there's all personal preference and I understand that.  I prefer mid-kick sticks, cause that's what I'm used to, but I can shoot just as well with a low-kick.  But if you think by buying Vapors over Machs you're going to be more agile but lose speed (with fit being equal), then you're falling for the marketing jargon.  Like I said before, the biggest difference in the product lines for skates is fit.  Go with the one that fits you best, not which one promises more of certain skill attribute.

Now we are getting somewhere... Yes, obviously, I don't expect Mach to make me skate like Makar and HL2 to have me moving like Bedard, but can someone actually articulate the differences in them and how they them feel on the ice? That might help me understand if the design of Vapor might be worth switching out of Supreme  for.

The comment above about skating on the heels in Mach is the type insight I was hoping for.

Edited September 1, 2023 by walkerdb7

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

Again, focus on fit.  If you've been using Supremes all your life, you might not even fit into a Vapor to begin with.  I personally can fit into a retail Supreme, but can't get my foot into a retail Vapor unless the Vapor is a wide EE model.  Same with CCM.  I can wear retail Tacks, but can't get my foot into a retail Jetspeed. (though from my understanding, Jetspeeds have gotten roomier in later models).  So my suggestion, as others said as well, is go to the store, try on different brands, models, and see what fits you best.  Don't even go into the store thinking you have to get one brand over another.

[Westside 243]

Have you bothered to try on either skate yet? 

[iceman8310 106]

On 8/31/2023 at 3:39 PM, walkerdb7 said:

Isn't the point of Fit 2 mean they should fit the same? I figured the difference in tendon guard, tongues, eyelits, etc would translate to some different feeling or flex on the ice?

A vapor still fits like a vapor and a supreme still fits like a supreme at the end of the day

[AnimalFear 18]

I was always a Vapor guy but my most recent pair of skates is a Supreme model. I honestly didn't notice any difference in terms of what aspects of my skating the skate emphasized and I'm a very good skater. I think all the stuff about stride length vs. agility, power vs. quickness, etc. is a bunch of gimmicky marketing speak. The skates just have some different features and designs that might feel better for one person or another. One might make it easier for you to get good forward ankle flexion or get on your toes a little bit easier, but all in all they are not that different, particularly now that the fits are standardized.

[Cavs019 710]

I am a lifetime Vapor guy who recently switched to fit 1 Machs and the eyelet mechanism differences are reason enough to choose one model vs the other. In my experience:

- Traditional Mach eyelets: easier to tie, wrap around my foot better after baking, flex better. 
- Vapor injected system: stiff, doesn’t wrap that well, shreds laces, feels weird and inhibits forward flex. 

YMMV. You can dial in pitch differences et al with a good profile, lifts, etc. My prior Vapors were custom with traditional eyelets but I’m assuming you’re looking at off the rack here. I don’t feel MOAR POWER or LESS AGILE vs my old Vapors but the Machs certainly fit great which helps me maximize what I have as far as skating ability. I also will take an all black skate over the abominations that are the new Vapor designs any day of the week. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Cavs019

[walkerdb7 20]

4 minutes ago, Cavs019 said:

I am a lifetime Vapor guy who recently switched to fit 1 Machs and the eyelet mechanism differences are reason enough to choose one model vs the other. In my experience:

- Traditional Mach eyelets: easier to tie, wrap around my foot better after baking, flex better. 
- Vapor injected system: stiff, doesn’t wrap that well, shreds laces, feels weird and inhibits forward flex. 

YMMV. You can dial in pitch differences et al with a good profile, lifts, etc. My prior Vapors were custom with traditional eyelets but I’m assuming you’re looking at off the rack here. I don’t feel MOAR POWER or LESS AGILE vs my old Vapors but the Machs certainly fit great which helps me maximize what I have as far as skating ability. I also will take an all black skate over the abominations that are the new Vapor designs any day of the week. 

thank you, great feedback

[walkerdb7 20]

On 9/1/2023 at 5:11 PM, Westside said:

Have you bothered to try on either skate yet? 

"bothered" haha, not yet. Using this post as preliminary research so I am as educated as a buyer as I can be when I walk into purchase.

[flip12 717]

2 hours ago, Cavs019 said:

I am a lifetime Vapor guy who recently switched to fit 1 Machs and the eyelet mechanism differences are reason enough to choose one model vs the other. In my experience:

- Traditional Mach eyelets: easier to tie, wrap around my foot better after baking, flex better. 
- Vapor injected system: stiff, doesn’t wrap that well, shreds laces, feels weird and inhibits forward flex. 

YMMV. You can dial in pitch differences et al with a good profile, lifts, etc. My prior Vapors were custom with traditional eyelets but I’m assuming you’re looking at off the rack here. I don’t feel MOAR POWER or LESS AGILE vs my old Vapors but the Machs certainly fit great which helps me maximize what I have as far as skating ability. I also will take an all black skate over the abominations that are the new Vapor designs any day of the week. 

New Vapor designs have often been refreshes lately anyway: HyperShite: Mission Pure L7, X: Mission Fly Weight inverted, and so on.

[mojo122 538]

5 hours ago, Cavs019 said:

I am a lifetime Vapor guy who recently switched to fit 1 Machs and the eyelet mechanism differences are reason enough to choose one model vs the other. In my experience:

- Traditional Mach eyelets: easier to tie, wrap around my foot better after baking, flex better. 
- Vapor injected system: stiff, doesn’t wrap that well, shreds laces, feels weird and inhibits forward flex. 
 

Just the opposite for me.  Longtime Supreme guy who just switched to Vapor.  MX3, 1S, and 2S Pro all had injected facing/eyelets which I really liked.  With the Ultrasonic they went traditional facing/eyelets as part of making a distinct differentiation between the two top tiered skates.  Have My Bauer Ultrasonics which I really liked.  Having the ability to skate in the Machs I felt that the amp facing with the insert between the second and third eyelet made the skate feel too flexible for me when compared to the Ultrasonics.  

The injected eyelets on the 3X Pro and 5X Pro are tough on cloth laces until the roughness wears down.  Haven't really seen that on the Hyperlite and Hyperlite 2.  The cutouts in the injected in the upper portion of the Hyperlites also allows for better wrap than the those of the 5X Pro.

[Cavs019 710]

That’s probably why I love the Mach’s so much. The forward flex on them is insane with the flex notch feature while still keeping lateral stiffness. Everything else has felt like a ski boot to me. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Cavs019

[clarkiestooth 235]

On 8/31/2023 at 2:56 PM, walkerdb7 said:

 

I am a fit 2. Eyeing up purchasing that "last pair" pair mentality. Normally play goalie, but coaching my son and on the ice a lot more. Skating out a bit more and might not play net for too much longer. Current skates are the OG One100s.

How the heck do I know which boot design works my skating style? haha. Can I get a golf fitting for skates?

Whether you go with supreme or vapor, based on what you say here, I think you'd probably skate better with a model one or two steps down from the top of the line Mach/Hype. Most skates today are way overbuilt in the stiffness department. This would hold true for probably 90% of the buyers. In fact, that's one of the reasons why the pros stick with old models as long as they can.

[Cavs019 710]

I don’t agree with that. Machs have a ton of flex in the upper and once you go down a level in Bauer you start to get a lot more cheap plastic and poly material throughout the boot. the M5 Pros feel like a toy compared to the top end model. With NHLers you still see some guys in Ultrasonics and 2X Pros etc but they’re probably just using their remaining custom stock on what is still a pro stiff boot. Most are in the new model every year.  The amount of guys still in tech mesh V Cuts or Marleau-esque CCMs/RBKs can be counted on one hand at this point. 
 

CCM is a different story - their 2nd from the top are excellent. Bauer I wouldn’t touch especially if you’re looking for something to last a long time. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Cavs019

[flip12 717]

Pros can also order top-end looking skates with more flex if they wish. PK Subban apparently had really flexible one-piece shell Tacks for instance.

[walkerdb7 20]

16 hours ago, mojo122 said:

Just the opposite for me.  Longtime Supreme guy who just switched to Vapor.  MX3, 1S, and 2S Pro all had injected facing/eyelets which I really liked.  With the Ultrasonic they went traditional facing/eyelets as part of making a distinct differentiation between the two top tiered skates.  Have My Bauer Ultrasonics which I really liked.  Having the ability to skate in the Machs I felt that the amp facing with the insert between the second and third eyelet made the skate feel too flexible for me when compared to the Ultrasonics.  

The injected eyelets on the 3X Pro and 5X Pro are tough on cloth laces until the roughness wears down.  Haven't really seen that on the Hyperlite and Hyperlite 2.  The cutouts in the injected in the upper portion of the Hyperlites also allows for better wrap than the those of the 5X Pro.

deep info, thanks

[mojo122 538]

10 hours ago, Cavs019 said:

I don’t agree with that. Machs have a ton of flex in the upper and once you go down a level in Bauer you start to get a lot more cheap plastic and poly material throughout the boot. the M5 Pros feel like a toy compared to the top end model. With NHLers you still see some guys in Ultrasonics and 2X Pros etc but they’re probably just using their remaining custom stock on what is still a pro stiff boot. Most are in the new model every year.  The amount of guys still in tech mesh V Cuts or Marleau-esque CCMs/RBKs can be counted on one hand at this point. 
 

CCM is a different story - their 2nd from the top are excellent. Bauer I wouldn’t touch especially if you’re looking for something to last a long time. 

M5 Pro has the same quarter package that was on the Ultrasonic and has a partial composite outersole.  Add the more traditional felt tongue and that skate is pretty close to the older 1S.

X5 Pro has the same quarter package and injected lacing that the 2X Pro had.  Just lacks the composite outersole.

Both those models are still considered pro spec when you look at the materials used.

[puckpilot 312]

Supremes and Vapors fit slightly different, regardless of if the fits are the same. For me, the key differences will be in how the boot affects your neutral stance. The Supremes, will put you a little more on your heels. The Vapors pitch you forward and will put you a little more on your toes. If you're on your heels a bit more, it'll encourage you to start your stride further back on the blade, so you take a fuller stride. If you're on your toes a bit more, It'll encourage your stride to star a little more forward on the blade, making it a bit shorter.  

Now, regardless of which skate you choose, you're not stuck. If you chose Supremes and find you want to be more on your toes, you can simply profile the blades to pitch you forward more. Same with the Vapors, you can have the blades profiled to put you more on your heels. 

One word of warning, I just got new skates. Mach 5 Pros. One thing I found is the fit is pretty tricky. First the scanner recommended a size 5. My old skates were size 4.5. The brannock measured me at a size 4.5. Yeah, I got tiny feet.

When I first put on the Mach 5s, they felt incredibly tight. I didn't think they'd fit at all. But after a long song and dance of trying and retrying on skates, it turned out after the foams warmed up, the Mach 5s started to feel fine. So I walk out with a size 4.5. Everything is fine for two months. Then as the foams in the skate liner compress more from use, things start to feel weird. It starts to feel like my skates are too big. I'm having to pull the laces tighter than I like to get the boot to feel right. It gets bad enough that I go back to the store, and do the whole song and dance again. This time I try on a size 4.0 in the Mach 5s. I think about it for a bit, and I bite the bullet and buy them. And after another month and a half or so. Yep the size 4.0 are the right size. Unfortunately, I had to eat it with the size 4.5s because it was beyond the size guarantee widow. If I knew back then what I know now, I would have just went straight for the customs. 

So when trying on your skates, with the new fit systems, be doubly cautious. It feels like the skate liner is extra thick and can throw the feel for the sizing off. 

On a side note, Sport Chek had their TF7s on clearance for $100. They didn't have any size 4.5s, but I went in and tried on a pair of size 4s. They fit.