flip12

You could get Graf to make a nice Vapor replicant if they still have the materials: Ultra G9000 pattern looks like their closest to the Vapor L-cut: https://grafhockey.com/skates/ice/player/ultra-g9000/ (says it's available for custom order). Reposition the eyelets though so spacing is even top to bottom--no extra space between 1st and 2nd eyelets at the cuff. EPP teclite mesh monocoque quarter construction = TechMesh: https://www.purehockey.com/product/graf-custom-ultra-g5-xi-ice-skates-senior/itm/6628-41/ Oversize traditional Graf toe cap. It's not very anatomical, but going up a size can get you more wiggle room. It's pretty low volume, which is nice. Details: 1. The tongue is crucial to classic Vapor flex. I'm not sure what they offer that would be closest. Maybe their updated Flex-insert panel tongue that's standard on Ultra 9000, but the last time I saw G75s in a shop with those tongues they didn't have the lace bite protector's stiffness in the upper half that Vapors have had since the Vapor 10 (Vapor 8 tongue was closer to a Supreme tongue flex profile). 2. You would maybe want to ask that they don't reinforce the collar. A lot of Graf skates have an extra stiffener that wraps the top eyelets and the collar, forcing the top of the boot to flare. That's not the case with traditional Vapors. 3. They even used to offer a fully composite outsole, rather than their Texalite outsole. I had G35X with that outsole, and while it was stiff enough, it turned out to be rather disappointing on closer inspection. It was mostly plastic with a carbon weave injection printed fabric to make it look fancier. 4. Depending on which generation of Vapors is your favorite (mine's Vapor 10), you may want to ask for reduced vamping in the first 3-4 eyelets. Hell, writing this out is getting me tempted 😛🤑

True's fit was large on the original TF line. That was corrected on all retail lines since then. If their toe cap were as anatomical as Bauer's current toe cap, they'd be closer to 1:1 fit. Right now I fit True 9.5 like a Bauer 9. I wish I could drop to True 9 because the boot fits sloppy compared to my 9.5D Vapors.

But what about the PE acquisition? Can you share some links to that? I tried searching but nothing comes up. I can only find articles on CCM’s sale last year.

These refreshes keep enshittifying the cosmetics of iconic skates. 652, Air Accel (not “Excel” like @justdohockey posted last week) Elite, Vapor 10. They just look awful compared to the originals and today’s skates. Any other available option would look better.

Can you share links to the news? I searched but couldn't find anything.

I believe the big difference for a lot of people in the jump from TechMesh to CURV Vapors was the forefoot having more of a curved shape…I think they called it TrueLasted or something. But damnit I wish you had said something about running dry months ago. Someone on Kleinanzeigen (German classifieds) sold three or four pairs of barely used if not new 9D TechMesh Vapors a few months ago. They had X7.0, X90, a couple other skins. I was eyeing them with envy because I’m a 9.5D! In the new Fit System I’m a 9-Fit 1, because of the new toe cap. I’ve only tried them on though, haven’t gone for skate in any Vapors newer than X100 (APX2 gen.).

It might help if you share more info about what didn't work for you in the fit change between the TechMesh and CURV builds. It also sounds like you haven't tried the new 3 Fit System. If I recall correctly, that started with the second season of the 2X. Also, what size do you wear in X:60s and how long does a pair tend to last you?

I gave up too soon, it's not PRO in the circle, it's his flex: https://media.gettyimages.com/id/2192989281/photo/washington-capitals-v-buffalo-sabres.jpg?s=1024x1024&w=gi&k=20&c=bI-0OPPAJ_GGcrDg8sScdieCj8zdrvHUxuijqcUAE6o=

There's been a lot of chatter that it's PSHS, but I can't point to a definitive source pinpointing it. Someone probably has a clearer view, but the best UFO shot I can find is this one: https://media.gettyimages.com/id/2195387491/photo/washington-capitals-v-edmonton-oilers.jpg?s=2048x2048&w=gi&k=20&c=YeRRoLqRuaBP92F2CD5uJ5ko8CPBBAbJSwAGRXG6FiI= It's a bit blurred, but I think that's the "PRO" circle logo at the end of the "PRO STOCK. INTENDED FOR OVIE USE ONLY." And that text alone is enough to implicate Geppetto.

He has been since around the end of his slump last season.

I think what’s confusing is the discussion of it being the P28 curve with the P92 face. It looks more like it’s what you describe, just a regular P92 curve with a little bump at the toe.

How? How do you get through the day?

Ha. I noticed that about CCM's P28, and Warrior's seems closer to that than Bauer. (TC4 was its own thing last I checked, they may have changed it.) I like CCM's sticks too, but the slightly more vanilla toe on the CCM and Warrior really appeal to me. Bauer's is a bit too augmented for my taste. Luckily, any P28 I've tried feels so nice compared to most curves that I don't have to look at it much when I'm using it.

😮 How do you even make your coffee then?

Forgot about the P86 angle, that makes perfect sense. Kucherov was a P92 guy before switching, as was Fisher. There might be something to that variant (if Kuch is using the Fisher) for those that want a little less wedge. I hope to get my hands on a Kuch stick soon. I’m a big fan of the P28, but a slightly less lofted version would be nice. How are you sourcing your Kucherov habit now? Are you going with MyBauer for all your sticks? I wish GePROtto would offer the Kucherov.

@Westside how much do they weigh compared to your other tongues?

Kucherov uses a very slight variation of a basic P28 (which varies at retail from company to company). I’ve read he uses the Fisher variant, perhaps the original P28, but I can’t confirm. I wish someone would do a podcast with Fisher to talk to him about his gear. His blade is possibly his greatest contribution to the game, but he was also an early tester on CURV boots and who knows what else.

Even from product pictures it's easy to see. I'm old enough to remember web images would load on the internet progressively: first very pixelated, then smoother and smoother, kind of like a thriller where the cops repeatedly ask the ITer to "enhance" 3 or 4x until the perp's face is revealed in crystal clear resolution. Gloves have devolved in the reverse of that: their geometries are composed of fewer and fewer polygons which makes for blockier builds. There are two ways to notice it--look at the top end gloves of a line that's been around over that time and see how they shed layers of complexity from one generation to the next and also look at the lower tier gloves from 5 to 10 years ago. Today's top end gloves look like bottom end gloves from 10 years ago. One example is Warrior's GX-archetypal glove--from MacDaddy/Dolomite, AK27, Luxe, QR1, QRL, QRE... they kept degrading. Top end gloves feel ok in the shop, but it's thanks to a lot of fluff and tricks--super flimsy builds with stretch gussets. Good for them. We pay the price (probably roughly the same as old top end gloves after inflation) and the price they pay to produce them drops. They don't last as long, so we're forced to dip into the scum pond again in a bit for a product that's probably degraded again but the financial gouge is still going to be just about as deep as before.

I remember David Booth talking about how much he liked his Trues because they allowed him to perform the way he wanted on a single radius, after having tried everything to make his previous boots work for him. Sounds very similar to your experience, just in a different make.

The way you put it, all of this reminds me of blade curves. Some will do the work for you, but it’s not as though you can’t shoot off the toe or do toe drags with a PM9, it just requires more mechanical work from the user rather than relying on the shortcut approach afforded by the tool. Programming has a cool term for similar neat-but-not-absolutely-necessary shortcuts: syntactic sugar. These complex geometries could be like mechanical sugar, making some much more comfortable performing feats that would otherwise be much too involved. For some, it’s the bees knees, for others it’s just meh. I’m kind of the same with curves. I used to be really dedicated to one in particular, but then I came to realize my golden stick was actually just balanced to my brain’s narrow tolerances. Now if a stick’s balanced right, the curve doesn’t matter all that much.

It's downright depressing how far gloves have fallen in 10 years. From '95 - '05 gloves got so much better insanely fast. From '05 - '15 (roughly) they peaked. From then to now it's just ugly all around.

Could be. If that’s the case he thought ahead and went to black CCMs for a bit before the switch, trying to hide the swap under the cover of darkness. If he really cared he would have had the EQMs black out the Hyp2rlite stain at the top of the quarters too though.

It is a bit lower than P28. It’s more consistently rockered from heel to toe, which probably makes it difficult to get a good reading on. CCM also tended to measure their lies higher than other brands like Easton, which was kind of a standard for a while. Warrior was notoriously low in their measurements until they changed to match others. Another example of CCM’s high lie measurement bias is P46. They had it at 5.5 or 6 while they labeled P28 as lie 5. I’m sure they had P28 at 5 because that was the industry norm at the time. Both curves were the same lie as their predecessor curves were though: P46 came from E4, with an Easton lie of 5 and P28 came from E6, with an Easton lie of 5.5. Somehow Easton messed everyone up by calling P28 lie 5, possibly because they were listening too much to Bjugstad. He was apparently behind the push for P92-5 but it wasn’t 5 by the old E4 standard. Easton had more pressing issues at the time so worrying about lie measurement consistency could easily have been an oversight. Long story short, P29 is lower than a lot of other patterns on the market these days. CCM has always just measured stuff on the high end of the lie scale.

Do you still have your old VH or True boots?

Interesting they’ve changed the eyelet pattern to Graf’s classic skip to the top. Makes sense for their concept.