flip12

I've been on the lookout for tech mesh HyperLites. Do you have any pictures/image links? If you look for game used HyperLites, it appears Bauer has a grey and black outsole variant with a similar if not the same construction as the neon retail version.

High end boots had TPU outsoles until Bauer started reinforcing theirs with composite inlays and then full composite outsoles in the mid-90's. If you look carefully, pros still used skate TPU outsoles instead of composite, like Bure did on his first Vapor 8s. I think I even spotted a pair of TPU one90s but I can't remember who had them. Marleau skated on TPU until he ran out of his downspec'd 9Ks.

In the words of Fiona Apple, "so's everything." Kidding aside, looking at his performance over the years, I wouldn't rock that boat either. If his mental picture of what he's in is that solid that even a reskinned skate occupies even an iota of awareness, I'd say ditch it. His team needs all he can give and more. I don't doubt he could fly in any skate. Prior to his NHL days he successfully rocked RibCors, RBZs, and Tacks. For whatever reason, JetSpeed is where he sticks. Maybe it was the Goldilocks combination for him, and fussing with it just compromises his flow. Best performance flow in the world? Let it be. It looks like he tried one-piece ASiVs in preseason practices, but once the regular season rolled around, it looks like he was in his old JetSpeeds dressed as ASiVs. If you look back at the pictures you can see the same boot pattern as he usually wears--that short, almost LEGOish blocky look of JetSpeed boots--as well as a visible separate outsole, foxing, and distinct JetSpeed toe cap. He's tried original JetSpeeds skinned to appear current in previous generations, but he's never stuck with anything else for more than a few weeks. Around All-Star Weekend last year he did wear a one-piece ASiVish pair, but he switched back shortly after the All-Star Game. Back to your original question, I haven't followed the particulars of Bauer and CCM skate evolution over the last ten years so closely, but both brands have tended back towards less stiff, especially in the facing, as they seemed to conclude they went too far with stiffness (maybe the boots were simply lasting too long?) My thought was maybe it was in attempt to head off Scott Van Horne boots. Each time Bauer and CCM softened up a bit to provide more forward flex, they stole back some players who had gone over to SVH/True boots. Hyperlites (very Makoish) have gotten a lot of former Bauer wearers back, including Berniers, Wright, and Bedard.

Skates don’t improve year after year like that. What you’re picturing sounds like linear improvement. That’s the message that marketing departments try to sell, but it’s not that clear what an improvement actually is when you think about it. Sure, there are changes from year to year, and the messaging from the company’s marketing campaigns will always and only ever be positive about these, but there’s not objective measure to quantify “improvement.” Some improvements are actually missteps, which is usually clearest after in-depth reviews following actual product use start coming in. Once in a while there can be big jumps in product quality, from the Bauer Supreme 8090 to the one90 for instance. But there were still plenty of players who longed for the 8090 after it was gone. Similarly, lots of players who loved Vapors up to the X60 didn’t like CURV Vapors like the APX. Bauer accomodated that for a while, but those days are numbered. So even in cases when it seems as clear as possible that a product “improved” you’ll never get everyone to agree to jump to the new model ship: improvement is very individual and imprecise.

Which Tacki-Macs are thin? The few I've tried have all been quite thick. I actually like the thickness because I have pretty big hands, but they tend to kill the balance of my lighter sticks. They work well with old standard shafts and blades for me though.

Does Bauer still offer tech-mesh as an option in custom Vapors? I haven't seen a recent Vapor model dressed like that in the last few years. I've been nostalgicurious about Vapors lately. My last pair of Bauers were the original generation Vapor 8s. I loved how they got soft around the top 3 eyelets. The only pro I know of still wearing the tech-mesh build (was it called Mosoca towards the end of the glorious '10s? (Before the CoronApocalypse...)) is Thrill Kessel. Are there any others out there?

It's hilarious with the skates. He's tried them dressed as FT2s, FT4s, ASiVs, where he's only worn them in a couple-few games at most, then right back to the trusty old OG JetSpeed graphics package. How many iterations of this will they go through? They might as well just give him the Modano treatment and let him keep the exact same boot and look until he retires.

Out of their various alterations of the top 60% of steel from the Vapor 8 on, was the original Vapor 8 steel the best? Every other iteration seems to run into major issues related to structural compromises at the top.

Is the parabolic shape only at the top of Fly steel or all the way through? I.e. does it have a parabolic shape at the bottom where it contacts the ice or only at the top where it engages the holder? I wonder how that steel shape (whether only at the top or all the way through the) will fare in practice. That seems like a potential weak point, just like with Fusion and CarbonLite runners. What’s the idea? Flex in the blade (will the bend more readily as well in case of a bad holder mount?), manipulating effective longitudinal radius, weight savings? How will these play in Edge holders? Durability issues would seem to be exasperated by space between the blade and the holder.

CCM doesn’t call theirs comfort edge but they still have their own equivalent of that feature right? They’re referred to as “oversized ankle pads” in IW’s review video (@ 2:04):

The graphics on the quarter panels look atrocious. Like budget Adidas indoor football boots.

It's crazy this happens. Isn't it right where the "comfort edge" is?

I have the CCM bubble (FV1) and I can’t ever go back to a cage. If I remember to wipe it off before hitting the ice I have this moment where my brain is doubting whether I have any protection in front of my face. Vision is amazing. Fog has only occurred once on the bench and it was gone in 15 seconds. It’s worth it to me to have perfect visibility and full protection, so if it gets overrun by scratches eventually I’ll certainly buy a new one.

Minimum number of skate lines makes sense for suppliers. I think it’s the wrong fit for users though.

McD hasn’t used short sticks in the past. It’s possibly just the angle of the camera and a rather relaxed moment with him standing almost completely upright.

If the size you tried on was too big, the size a half size down could also be too big. It sounds like a lot of people get good results buying a size that doesn't seem quite big enough until it gets baked. Baking gives a touch more room, and with such a precise fit the goal, that's all you usually need. If you go the Catalyst route, try on all the sizes around where you started: regular and wide, until you find out which ones are definitely too small. Hot spots are usually eliminated by baking True boots and can be spot treated if still present after baking.

Looks like McDavid's back in his trusty old OG JetSpeed build, dressed up to appear ASVish: Boot pattern looks like before, can also see foxing and hints of a separate outsole. He's (probably) never leaving that build for good.

It's still a little confusing, because they try hard to map the old fits to the new ones, for obvious reasons. It doesn't always work. John Davidson, Bauer's skate guru calls fit 1 "very very similar to a Vapor D width skate." This one has some visuals of the dataset and how the fit system roughly maps to it. It's interesting to me how they decide to show the borders between the three fits (2:05) as discrete lines, as though right around the line a particular foot is clearly meant for fit 1, but just nudged a little bit in proportions and it's destined for fit 2. A spray painted fuzzy border seems more appropriate, but maybe not as confidently convincing, as nuance isn't typically welcome in the mainstream of anything. Another interesting visual would have been plotting the actual lasts themselves. They should be representable as distinct points in that scatter plot, and then we could actually see how "very very similar" they actually are. Funnily enough, that concrete comparison isn't readily discovered. Since this is a True thread, it's nice to think about how these relate: True comes along with their highly adaptive molding technology, Bauer's adapts not by improving their skates' moldability but instead by creating more bins (3 instead of 2 per line) to fit as many feet as possible. True, on the other hand, has that nice moldability, and is tuning the feel of their skates, but it's not user-friendly. The struggles recently mentioned by @bl4 and @Hills in his video review remind me of my process with two pairs (first too big, then the right size) of MLX skates. I've tried a lot, and finally have come close to a very hacked solution. Most people are not patient enough to do that experimentation, and there isn't much information to help them anyway. When dropping several hundred dollars on a purchase that has a small regret window, it's no wonder people don't want to try that much. The future of skates seems really promising, but for now, there are some apparent growing pains. I have a feeling they'll be over soon, though.

Fits 1, 2, and 3 are completely new lasts. Vapor lasts from before don’t correspond to the new system. There have been quite a few people on here posting that they don’t fit any of the new fit numbers as well as they did their old Vapors. I think some confusion comes from Bauer’s old 3 fits—Vapor, Supreme, and Nexus, and a lot of people thinking those were now renamed 1, 2, and 3. That would allow you to get a Vapor built on a Supreme or Nexus last, or a Supreme built on a Vapor or Nexus last, as well as their ‘native’ lasts, but instead Bauer created 3 new fits to best suit the data they collected with their 3D foot scanning app.

He wore AS-Vs that looked a lot closer to the retail version than anything he’s previously worn in competition; last year around all-star weekend. Maybe he’s giving that route another try.

@bl4 do you have any other tongues you could try in your boots? Trying a thicker classic felt tongue could help, as long as it's not too stiff (usually tendon protection in tongues tends to be quite stiff). You might be able to get better lace tension and heel lock without having to crank down on the tongue too much. I don't know the Cat tongue yet, but tongues with too much stiffness can impede proper forward flexion when cranked down with tight lacing.

I see I mistyped in the post you quoted, the Kovalev stick I have doesn't have a plug, it has a Tacki-Mac that weighs about 36g.

I didn't cut it. We're about the same height and he used sticks about 1/2" shorter than my sticks from the 90's-early 2000's. I can measure it tomorrow, but I know offhand it's a 48" shaft and the blade has a longer hosel than retail standard blades did. His pro AK27 shafts that I have are the same length as a retail AK27, just with a different build--boxy shaft shape, tackier grip, and heavier. I only have one other pro standard blade (Easton E28) and it's the same hosel length, so I wonder if that wasn't somewhat the norm for standard pro blades. As a follow up, I've since gotten used to the 425g stick. I can go from either my heavy sticks (650g+) or light sticks (425g is the lightest I have), and while I feel a difference, it doesn't affect my play. My hands are a bit out of whack for dangling at the moment, but I plan on working on it 🙂

Thanks for the pics. They look interesting. Can’t wait to see them in person but that might be a while because the two shops in CPH don’t stock new True stuff. Mostly what I'd like to know is how they compare to other outsoles.

Quoted wrong.