oldtrainerguy28

Who is replacing there helmets now? What helmet will be the new one?

No. Fit is the key thing here. While any improvement to testing to reduce injury where possible is a fantastic (CSA and HECC are both working with rotational injury reduction and have been for 2 years) idea even with the results of the VT testing much more research is needed. Even more so with what causes the severity in some and the lesser in others. There is so much to be learned, to base the VT results as gospel is not a good idea. While the helmet makers in all sports would love to have a helmet that fits and performs well and passes the mirror test its pretty difficult task. It is all about finding that materiel that will absorb the most like a Poron from Bauer and finding something that works with it for comfort fit and weight.

Well what has been the impact the rest of the week on helmet sales?

I agree. Very well written and backed up response.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-01-28/the-controversial-safety-ratings-that-sell-football-helmets This is actually a very good article on the page on the right. Publicity for the STAR (Summation of Tests for the Analysis of Risk) ratings has helped attract money and students to Virginia Tech’s engineering college, Duma says. “Everybody involved in every sport has come to talk to us,” he says. The program doesn’t take donations from helmet makers, though the university requires it to charge fees when manufacturers seek testing for their own development purposes. Duma forbids his staff from testifying in helmet litigation. “I could stop right now and be a millionaire doing that,” he says.

JR can you put the link up? I cant find that page?

This is sad. Now with improper fitting helmets the first person to get blamed will be the fitter because they didn't sway them away from the improper fit. I think it is time now all companies, Warrior especially should stand up and say only buy our helmet if it fits you properly and consult with your store expert. But as you said the Damage is done now.

They have to be on the board. But there are way to many people that can out vote a change they wish to make if we all don't agree. I really do not appreciate your tone and saying that I would let a company influence if I think a product is unsafe.

I have always like the 5100 and felt it was the most comfortable and fit the majority of heads. Both my kids use this helmet and neither have been injured at all so far. However that says they haven't been hit hard enough yet maybe?

Let us see if we can agree on a few main points. 1. Any testing that would result in a better product is good. 2. The manufactures while aiming to make profit are doing so with the intention and the knowledge and the R and D to make a safe product. 3. There is at this time no way a hockey helmet will prevent, or lesson the possibility of a ROTATIONAL impact concussion. (IE the Crosby hit in the outdoor game). I think everyone here is an agreement on this.

Yes you are 100% correct. Hence that is why you are seeing less "we have a better fit" to the safety features themselves and more you should buy the best fit. The headform issue in my mind is very key. When your doing rotational impact testing there is no way a hockey helmet will do well at the present state. But the way VT wants to fix it is to make the helmet the size and style of a football helmet. Well that is were you run into neck issues. Helmets can not be bigger for neck strength issues. And again the companies have been working on this for years now. We have worked on headforms that would possibly work better for rotational testing and tons more. PS all the above are my own opinions and do are not the thoughts of the CSA in anyway shape or form. Some general information may have been learned by CSA but are public record.

well this academic study is putting fear in people to possibly buy a product that does not fit and could cause further injuries. They use one singular headform for all studies. last time I checked everyone's head is different!!

Nobody at CSA or HECC is against outside testing being done. It is the way it is being done and how it benefits the consumer. In another thread I was accused of having an agenda against a company. Now here I am sticking up for that company because I KNOW what is being done to improve the safety and safe testing practices of CSA and HECC. and I know from the U of Ottawa how the VT tests do not correlate with the way the game is being played. I helped TSN and the brain injury awareness people in Toronto produce the first helmet fitting video 6 years ago so to say I am anti fitting or anti testing is just ridiculous. As for the "money trail" I simply look at the work I and many others in the industry and meetings and conferences on it all done for FREE! While he is making thousands to say all the work that has been done is BS? Last time I checked Bauer or Reebok has not cut me a check for 1 cent! Yet I have spent almost 10 years working on the issue. If VT and the Helmet Testing group is so amazing.....Instead of testing to prove things are bad why haven't they showed or shared the data with the companies to help improve the products? Seems to me VT has the agenda not me. I am on the consumers and manufacturers side on this one.

As I have said from the start the VT testing is not realistic to the sport. The testing is very flawed and all of the companies know it. HECC NOCSAE and CSA are all working together to make things better and are working on rotational impact testing along with all manufacturers. VT is all about the money folks. Although the idea is valid and the initial plan was good now it is all about the funding and the talks the Prof is doing. He is getting rich while HECC and CSA are volunteer positions along with the manufactures that sit on the boards. If you think for a second Bauer and Reebok are not working extremely hard to solve rotational impact injuries you're dead wrong. When it comes to this topic all companies are working together as are the governing bodies as well as the government's safety councils.

Actually your first 40 sharpenings on the original wheel (If you are doing the 6 passes) would cost you 14.97 not including tax and shipping of the machine. So probably more towards $16 per sharpening. After that you would then go down to the $1.66 and better to air on the side of caution and say that its a $1.75 with hydro and so on. And while the original 40 would be very expensive the savings down the road would be a decent amount. IMO you still need a good pro shop to get you set up to start for sure though even if you had one of these. And most likely a couple visits to fix the odd thing here or there. I can't see someone buying this for doing any more than their own skates at home.

While doing the same business as NO-Icing in Canada I have come to realize you just can not worry about people that have their own machines. They aren't going to pay tax and nobody is going to do a thing about it here. There has been a recent law not being enforced in the GTA that will now be enforced in the upcoming season. That being no personal skate sharpeners in The City of Toronto Arenas. And some of the private facility's have banned people using them as well. Even Jr Teams. But if you're sharpening is that good people will take the time or find an alternative way to get to you. I personally until this weekend was on the same thoughts as jimmy but now I couldn't be bothered as I am to busy, to be worrying about others. This machine looks pretty decent. My issue would simply be you need a new wheel every 40 pairs? So if you're doing more than your family skates then it is not much different than going to a Pro Shop. And what happens when you have deep knicks? Again you will need a Pro Shop. So while this may do for the average family with 2-4 players in the household more or less it just ends up you will have to go to your regular less often but still go. And when little johnny or susy says I like X-s sharpening better??? But there is a spot for this machine at this price for a small family in the middle of no where. Nothing beats a quality sharpening with a qualified sharpener. That being said a better machine as I said above could even me on a busy day so I would rather work with the company then against it. Good Luck Russ.

Overall like the idea. Think it has some merit. If there was a heavier duty use one down the road I could see this as an add on to my present business!

I spoke with Bauer at the Source show about it. And all though there was not widespread issues as JR had said there was some issues and mainly in the pro's oops and Jr skates from my personal situations. The one I had sent back was 3 months old and was almost falling right out. MY understanding as was explained is there was some slight running changes in the mold and it seems to have solved some of the issues I had mentioned. I was told they will continue to monitor it but there was no plan to NOT continue with the "trigger" holder. I can honestly see how it can be an advantage but I still prefer the LS2 with Step blade. But the newer holder I will admit do seem to be fitting tighter and not loosening up as much. I just put some clear tape on the blades of the ones that are loosening. And the others just take them back to get new ones put on. One girl on our team is on her 3rd set of holders and 2 others on their 2nd each.

I did PM and have not received a reply.

Actually all retailers my clients dealt with were told (as of I believe but will check that as of last march) it is now only 90 days even if the skate was of a later model. And only a few had the holders replaced at no cost. In fact one lady did contact Mississauga and was sent a letter saying her skates that were 6mths old roughly maybe 8 ( and this is a 40'ish year old lady playing once a week) that her holder would not be replaced as per the 90 day warranty that is now applicable. I can send you a copy of that if you wish. As for the other person with the comment about me telling people they should go with LS2 (yes that is correct) but I never have said i used vice grips, I do not have a pair in my shop. Listen I am being respectful and giving Bauer the opportunity to correct issues and have not come on here and told anyone that they are garbage and they should go to something completely different. I have said I prefer the LS2 as I FEEL IMO that is a better product and Step Steel is a better quality blade and much easier to sharpen. I have had much better success with the JR, OHL, NCAA, AHL, and NHL players I work with using the LS2 and Step combination. Period.

Well that would explain it. So I was not wrong for the most part as there must be a fair bit of flushing to be done because I have not seen any LS2 that looks comparable. Most I see is on mid price point skates that a year old to the customer or were purchased as older inventory on sale. I do not sell skates at my shop but do help clients get fitted at other stores and we always go LS3 or Step anyway. This would explain why I have not seen this improved steel. I personally feel that the LS2 is still too short in height and has been for a while even back in LS2 Holders. I was glad to see the LS3 and even more glad to see the LS4 steel. I am also much happier with the new Edge holder making the channel tighter. Still having issues with some JR ones but I am sure that will be fixed down the road. I would however like to be able to purchase the trigger hard ware to do the repairs on them instead of selling a customer a new holder when it is only 6 months old. That is frustrating.

I really don't think I have to? Look at the blades side by side and tell me they are the same? Then sharpen both.

That would be correct LS2 is not the same quality as the LS3. Its very easy to tell by sharpening it. I am very much looking forward to getting the LS4 so I can get all my clients out of the 3's and 2's they are in now. Still prefer Step and regular LS2 Holders but not much choice now.

Very disappointed they kept the fusion steel. Should have gone LS3 and 4 on higher end skates and LS2 on lower and just got rid of that Stainless what ever steel. Love the fact they have seemed to fix the Sr holder for tightness with the trigger still have issues with JR. Really like the Prodigy line of gear! Probably the best part of the whole catalog. We need to get more kids in the game!

It will be different but that is a personal decision. With Profiling and pitch adjustments (using the pitch holder as well as profiling) you maybe able to get it to feel similar. I only go with longer holders when there is a balance issue. I wont just do it for the fun of it. I know you can go with more blade on a shorter holder but all my clients that have balance issues that I change the holders for prefer the longer holder shorter profile. Example: Had a player get new skates at school at RMU. they are a grinder type player and need the balance to battle. The old 5.5 skates they had had 254 stock holders. The new skates had a 246 but looked good on the skates. However no matter what they did profile wise they didn't feel right and the player hasn't used them at all in games. They came home for the break switched to the 254 and it was like a light switch and they feel perfectly fine. It is all about making the player perform the best with the best amount of blade for that player!