Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[IniNew 53]

Just had to make a fast comment on here. I have been saying since page one this was a great idea......some did believe some werent to keen...then there was the people that have stores around the stores I work with that said it was terrible and would never fly and now I see 5 of them on the Blackstone sight.

Wow to funny.

I believe what he is saying is, "I told you so..."

[87vert 0]

Anyone in the Pittsburgh area looking to get the FBV sharpening, Hockey'n at in Aspinwall, PA (Not House of Hockey) has a Blackstone with a FBV wheel, with plans on getting more wheels shortly. Going to take my Graf's down there next week.

Sweet came into this thread to see if Pittsburgh had a place. Will get my next sharpening there

Edited October 6, 2009 by 87vert

[jimmy 194]

Just had to make a fast comment on here. I have been saying since page one this was a great idea......some did believe some werent to keen...then there was the people that have stores around the stores I work with that said it was terrible and would never fly and now I see 5 of them on the Blackstone sight.

Wow to funny.

Very funny indeed. I had some ME a-hole email me and demand to know why the FBV was so good. I asked him if he skated on it. Nope. Enough said.

[RadioGaGa 162]

Found another place in town that does it for the same price as a normal sharpen (Sportchek - Ancaster for those in the area). Went out there after work...the kid behind the counter said he hadn't done it yet...but could try on a pair of the trade in skates first, before doing mine.

I opted to go back tomorrow when the guy who has trained in the FBV is in.

[jeffg 13]

I recently had my skates sharpened with the v- cut. Seem to like the sharpening. I was told that every time you go from a v- cut the old way of sharpening the skates must be cross cut/grind first in order to properly sharpen them. Is this true?

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

Nah

[Jarick 5]

Hadn't heard about this until Monday (don't know why), so I did some reading and found a shop right down the street that does it. Picked up a lifetime sharpening sticker too...that should save some cash.

Normally I'm an 11/16 guy, went up to 3/4 with the soft summer ice and some weight gain, and as I try and cut a bit for winter league and work on my balance and edges some more, I was considering going back to 5/8. So I went with the 90/75. It looks practically flat, with a tiny ridge on either side. The edge itself feels sharper though.

Got a practice tonight, pretty excited to try it out. I still have a ton of work to do with my skating, by far my weakest part, but I found some good ice to work on it and hopefully this will give me a nice edge this winter.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

Not sure if you guys have been following but David Perron has settled into a FBV hollow.

We were talking about it before the regular season started about how he wanted to try it so he asked me quite a bit of questions about it. He skated on a 1" ROH so we all agreed (him/Blues EQM/me) that 90/50 would be a good starting point. I had warned him that he would feel a bit of lateral slide at slow speeds/full stop as you aren't as deep in the ice.

He tried it and loved the glide but had a genuine concern which really doesn't apply much to us non-professionals and that was being pushed around in the crease and being able to hold his ground. Luckily Blackstone is doing custom shapes for pro teams and he was able to get on an 80/75.

[CAmmon 2]

Wouldn't that be a shallower cut though? I would think that would make it worse.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

No, the edges are 75 as opposed to 50

[Jarick 5]

Sorry if this has been explained already, but it's the angle of the edges that's the key in determining how "sharp" they feel when cornering, correct? So 80/75 has "taller" edges but the 80 means the angle of the edges is flatter (than say 90 or 100)? And is the reason for dropping to 80 in Perron's case to maximize the surface area of the edge itself to provide lateral stability?

[Polarlight 0]

Sorry if this has been explained already, but it's the angle of the edges that's the key in determining how "sharp" they feel when cornering, correct? So 80/75 has "taller" edges but the 80 means the angle of the edges is flatter (than say 90 or 100)? And is the reason for dropping to 80 in Perron's case to maximize the surface area of the edge itself to provide lateral stability?

Bite is a function of both depth to flat bottom of "V" and angle of "fangs" (both numbers are needed to determine bite). 80/75 would offer bite between 90/50 and 90/75. 80/75 would have same depth to bottom of "V" as 90/75, but less aggressive fang angle.

[Jarick 5]

Okay, skated last night with the new FBV 90/75 coming from 11/16. It was more subtle than I expected, but I'm a pretty godawful skater. I noticed a bit more glide, edges seemed slipping out from me at first but after warmups they felt good. Not night and day, but a better sharpening. One thing I noticed was the "crunch" sound on corners, a lot more than I normally get, and possibly more importantly, the lack of "crunch" sound on my weaker edges (where I need a lot of work). So maybe this isn't a performance tool for me as much an education tool. By the end of the skate I felt more confident on my edges, so I'm excited to hit Saturday morning skates and get to work on some skating exercises.

I did however skate pretty much the whole practice without breaks and while I was pretty tired at the end, I wasn't hacking and coughing as much as normal. So there could have been a bit less fatigue but there wasn't much gliding going on (small area practice).

Edited October 15, 2009 by Jarick

[Hockeyman11385 1]

You were skating on a very shallow hollow already so I don't think that you would notice much more glide. What you should notice is better bite when you are turning and really have to count on your edges. Once you learn to trust that the edges will be there for you, you should notice better performance in tight turns, etc.

[Chadd 916]

I wouldn't call 11/16 "very shallow" but I do agree that the more shallow you go the less you will notice the benefits.

[Jarick 5]

Would a 100/50 be worth a shot? Am I supposed to want quite a bit of bite on my skates (again, I'm not a great skater and will be doing a lot of work on my edges on the weekends)?

I should re-word that, would 100/50 have a better glide due to the longer flat spot?

Edited October 15, 2009 by Jarick

[automorph 0]

tried 90/50 last night.....fell in love glide was incredible, felt more smooth and graceful

100/75, 100/50 way too sharp

skating on 90/75 last 6 months

[Chadd 916]

Would a 100/50 be worth a shot? Am I supposed to want quite a bit of bite on my skates (again, I'm not a great skater and will be doing a lot of work on my edges on the weekends)?

I should re-word that, would 100/50 have a better glide due to the longer flat spot?

Sorry, I only meant that the more shallow you were with ROH, the less you will notice the benefits of the FBV. The guys that use 3/8 that suddenly get the glide of a more shallow hollow without losing their bite in the turns are the ones that will notice the biggest benefit.

[furlanitalia 1]

I can second that. Going from FBV 100/75 to 3/8 ROH it always feels like my blades are sticking to the ice.

[rdhockeyguy59 0]

Guy's,

when you cut a blade edge on an angle it's weak! The edge won't hold up! You would never support a bridge with an angle support. You would support it with an arch. It's PHYSICS. NOT MAKE BELIEVE..

[AfftonDad 88]

For those of you that didn't use JR's tip of putting a piece of tape on the bottom of your magnetic edge checker... I made a replacement from some aluminum right angle extrusion and magnets from Home Depot. Just cut the extrusion to length and super glue a magnet on to it in the middle. I used two on top of each other for stronger magnetic pull. Enough magnets and extrusion to make several of them cost less than $8.

I also tried to make the other piece (the one that sits on the side of the blade by cutting of a short piece of the extrusion and attaching it to the bottom of another length of the right angle extrusion. I attached a magnet to the side and I thought I was in business. Unfortunately this didn't produce a "true enough" right angle. I guess thats ok though since the only piece that I'll be wearing out is the one that sits on the edges of the skate blade and that piece works fine.

If anyone can come up with a way to make the piece that sticks to the side of the blade with a true right angle using only ordinary home power tools, let us know.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

Guy's,

when you cut a blade edge on an angle it's weak! The edge won't hold up! You would never support a bridge with an angle support. You would support it with an arch. It's PHYSICS. NOT MAKE BELIEVE..

Old bridge -

New bridge -

Ah, the irony in the shapes.

Thanks for playing.

[AfftonDad 88]

And those damn triangle shaped pyramids don't stand up for s***!

I thought the triangle was the strongest geometric shape. That's why roof trusses (and just about everything else needing strength) is constructed from triangles.

[furlanitalia 1]

Whether it's stronger or not, the first fbv I got I did roll the edge. Lost it completely. Hasn't happened since though, I have a feeling it was a fluke.

[camhockey16 5]

Guy's,

when you cut a blade edge on an angle it's weak! The edge won't hold up! You would never support a bridge with an angle support. You would support it with an arch. It's PHYSICS. NOT MAKE BELIEVE..

Old bridge -

New bridge -

Ah, the irony in the shapes.

Thanks for playing.

ziiiiiiiiiing!

im pretty sure from what i remember that triangles are supposed to be the strongest shapes as well - i think most people are just opposed to change and dont want to believe it is better. hey i even managed to not quote the pictures.

Edited October 16, 2009 by camhockey16