The 2009-2010 Suspension Thread

[chippa13 1844]

If they are similar players that is fine but I don't want to see David Krejci squaring off with Colton Orr anytime soon.

[Law Goalie 147]

The problem is that if you've just taken a headshot, the last thing you're going to do is start a fight. Apart from risking another blow to the head that might compound the injury, your balance is off, which means you may get your skull cracked on the ice in a takedown.

So if it's not the guy who got hit, who steps up? Unless you happen to have Jarome Iginla on your team, and it's in his contract that he's allowed to fight whenever he wants, or someone like Max Talbot who can handle himself and is a huge emotional asset for the team, no coach will let useful players stick themselves in the box. That means the job usually falls to the fourth-line guys.

Given the current degree of athletic specialisation, dedicated fourth-liners are almost always either 1) fast guys who are either tiny or just 'play small' but are great defensively, or 2) monstrous goons. I really don't see Ricard Wallin throwing down any time soon, it falls to Colton Orr to start the fight. Now, given that The Code says, more or less, that Orr can't fight guys who are way below his weight class, and that the opposing coach will try to get his target off the ice immediately and replace him with someone who can handle Orr, bingo - goon on goon action.

Would I like to see more guys below cruiserweight answering the bell? Sure. Thing is, fighting isn't easy, and more often than not you'll just break your hand against the guy's helmet or skull if you're not very experienced. I'd also like to see the odd pure fighter teach a lesson to someone who takes liberties - Chara on McCabe was a borderline example, but I'm thinking more of Jon Scott taking on Sean Avery. But the problem there is that there are rules AND suspension guidelines AND coaching conventions AND any number of other circumstances that make it practically impossible for a goon to fight anyone other than another goon.

[chippa13 1844]

Well, if you've just been knocked on queer-street then you're obviously not going to be dropping the gloves right away. In those instances, a teammate should be exacting justice right quick and, I believe, those fights should not carry the instigator penalty but that will never fly with the league office.

[Chadd 916]

Well, if you've just been knocked on queer-street then you're obviously not going to be dropping the gloves right away. In those instances, a teammate should be exacting justice right quick and, I believe, those fights should not carry the instigator penalty but that will never fly with the league office.

I agree completely. I like the idea of team toughness and not just one guy who sits on the bench until it's time to fight and ends up with more PIMs than minutes played. You have to love Olli Jokinen for dropping the gloves the other night when Beauchemin ran his linemate. He failed miserably, but he was willing to go out of his comfort zone in order to stand up for one of his guys.

[Law Goalie 147]

That's an excellent example. Did Jokinen in fact get the instigator call?

Observed dispassionately, you really don't want to trade 5min of Olli Jokinen's playing career for 5min of Beauchemin's; I'm sure most coaches would argue against his stepping up, however much the players would admire it in the heat of the moment.

In a case like Toews', of course, he could barely operate his own eyes let alone fight Willie Mitchell. But even with a borderline hit where the guy pops right back up, medically speaking, he's the last guy on the ice you want risking another blow to the head. That's the only dispassionate argument I can come up with for having a linemate jump in - at least they're saving the guy who got him from himself. And for every one of those, there's the image of Dean McAmmond unconscious on the ice with people's skates stepping all over him while his teammates tried to get Downie out of his turtleshell.

I'm in absolute agreement that this is a league office issue. They decided at some point that they didn't want players policing themselves, on the theory that they could hold out until hockey culture came to regard fighting as something undesirable. It hasn't worked and I don't think it will. Instead, they've nearly extinguished the culture of respect in hockey that kept injuries to a minimum, and turned fighting from an effective check against dangerous play into a sideshow.

[Chadd 916]

I'm in absolute agreement that this is a league office issue. They decided at some point that they didn't want players policing themselves, on the theory that they could hold out until hockey culture came to regard fighting as something undesirable. It hasn't worked and I don't think it will. Instead, they've nearly extinguished the culture of respect in hockey that kept injuries to a minimum, and turned fighting from an effective check against dangerous play into a sideshow.

It could be managed from the league office, but they have to be willing to suspend people. Colin Campbell is not.

[Law Goalie 147]

They'd have to be willing to suspend people, and to have the guts not to suspend others in situations that were only subtly different. That would involve either close cooperation with the PA to go along with it, or a willingness to fight the PA's grievances.

This just highlights how wrong the people in place currently are.

[psh 25]

Well, if you've just been knocked on queer-street then you're obviously not going to be dropping the gloves right away. In those instances, a teammate should be exacting justice right quick and, I believe, those fights should not carry the instigator penalty but that will never fly with the league office.

I agree completely. I like the idea of team toughness and not just one guy who sits on the bench until it's time to fight and ends up with more PIMs than minutes played. You have to love Olli Jokinen for dropping the gloves the other night when Beauchemin ran his linemate. He failed miserably, but he was willing to go out of his comfort zone in order to stand up for one of his guys.

Speaking of this event, I was surprised to see Beauchemin refuse to take off his helmet. The guy has a visor for crying out loud. Poor Olli never even had a chance to take a swing as he waited for Beauchemin to remove his helmet and Beauchemin, adding insult to injury, got in 3 or 4 free shots and bloodied Jokinen's eye. I thought that leaving a visored lid on in a fight was a two minute minor. Apparently not, though, unless you are the instigator. Since the instigator penalty is never called, this rule is utterly worthless.

[CAmmon 2]

I think a monkey throwing darts at a wall of punishments could do a better job handling suspensions than Colin Campbell.

[K9 Unit 1]

I think a monkey throwing darts at a wall of punishments could do a better job handling suspensions than Colin Campbell.

lol maybe we should unretire that maggie the monkey from tsn or whatever her name was

[RadioGaGa 162]

Bravo to whoever did that flow chart...very well done.

[Drewhunz 3]

2 games for Neal.

[Krev 86]

Blegh. Mo needs to keep up his production now that Nealers gone for 2. Ribs isn't doing jack, and Morrows been sleeping the past 5 games.

[RadioGaGa 162]

Laraque facing potential discipline for his hit on Kronwall

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=299574

I saw the replay...and yes, that could be a suspendable hit...but what I don't like about it is this:

"The league called me (Saturday night)," Holland told the Detroit News. "Obviously, they are looking into it. They told me they saw the hit and they requested that I let them know the extent of Nik's injury."

Another case of suspending the result...not the action itself.

So, if Nik doesn't miss a shift...all is forgotten?

[camhockey16 5]

i was kind of curious whether the matt cooke vs. sean donovan hit would make it into here as well since it was knee to knee - but i couldn't find a replay of it so far

[RadioGaGa 162]

http://m.tsn.ca/site?t=-Lb17zQRGsOJzzLCbZnsPA&sid=tsn

5 games for Laraque.

[camhockey16 5]

haha - found a video with both

[reyno2ac 0]

http://m.tsn.ca/site?t=-Lb17zQRGsOJzzLCbZnsPA&sid=tsn

5 games for Laraque.

I completely agree with this suspension. The intent to injure was obviously there. The guy was playing like a ass, he managed to get 6 penalty minutes in one shift, the hit to Kronwall and the high stick at the other end.

I think that even if Kronwall had not been injured that a suspension should have been handed down. They NEED to punish the intent, not the outcome.

[RadioGaGa 162]

http://m.tsn.ca/site?t=-Lb17zQRGsOJzzLCbZnsPA&sid=tsn

5 games for Laraque.

I completely agree with this suspension. The intent to injure was obviously there. The guy was playing like a ass, he managed to get 6 penalty minutes in one shift, the hit to Kronwall and the high stick at the other end.

I think that even if Kronwall had not been injured that a suspension should have been handed down. They NEED to punish the intent, not the outcome.

5 games still seems high when ramming a guy head first into the boards seems to get 3 games. Its just the inconsistency. It's like the league holds knee/leg injuries in higher regard than head injuries, because they are obviously using injuries in the decision making process.

And I'm not just saying that because I'm a Habs fan...Hell, having George out of the lineup may actually help the team.

[camhockey16 5]

i think it's hard to say that laraque was trying to injure him - i think its more a case of kronwall making a good move after laraque had committed to the hit and laraque had nothing else left to hit - still dont have any problem with him getting 5 games though

[reyno2ac 0]

http://m.tsn.ca/site?t=-Lb17zQRGsOJzzLCbZnsPA&sid=tsn

5 games for Laraque.

I completely agree with this suspension. The intent to injure was obviously there. The guy was playing like a ass, he managed to get 6 penalty minutes in one shift, the hit to Kronwall and the high stick at the other end.

I think that even if Kronwall had not been injured that a suspension should have been handed down. They NEED to punish the intent, not the outcome.

5 games still seems high when ramming a guy head first into the boards seems to get 3 games. Its just the inconsistency. It's like the league holds knee/leg injuries in higher regard than head injuries, because they are obviously using injuries in the decision making process.

And I'm not just saying that because I'm a Habs fan...Hell, having George out of the lineup may actually help the team.

5 games seems a bit high when you compare the minimal suspensions head hits are getting, I do agree with that. But, I still take the stand that realistically 5 games is reasonable and hits to the head should receive 5+ hits.

[Chadd 916]

http://m.tsn.ca/site?t=-Lb17zQRGsOJzzLCbZnsPA&sid=tsn

5 games for Laraque.

I completely agree with this suspension. The intent to injure was obviously there. The guy was playing like a ass, he managed to get 6 penalty minutes in one shift, the hit to Kronwall and the high stick at the other end.

I think that even if Kronwall had not been injured that a suspension should have been handed down. They NEED to punish the intent, not the outcome.

5 games still seems high when ramming a guy head first into the boards seems to get 3 games. Its just the inconsistency. It's like the league holds knee/leg injuries in higher regard than head injuries, because they are obviously using injuries in the decision making process.

And I'm not just saying that because I'm a Habs fan...Hell, having George out of the lineup may actually help the team.

I agree completely. Perhaps Colie has had knee injuries but never had a concussion.

[camhockey16 5]

I'd be more than happy to help him out with that.

[RadioGaGa 162]

i think it's hard to say that laraque was trying to injure him - i think its more a case of kronwall making a good move after laraque had committed to the hit and laraque had nothing else left to hit - still dont have any problem with him getting 5 games though

I'd rather see the knees get 3 and the headshots get 5!

[Chadd 916]

i think it's hard to say that laraque was trying to injure him - i think its more a case of kronwall making a good move after laraque had committed to the hit and laraque had nothing else left to hit - still dont have any problem with him getting 5 games though

I'd rather see the knees get 3 and the headshots get 5!

And Belak get ten for the attempted spear to the groin.