Blade Movement in Tuuk LS Edge Holders

[start_today 770]

Wanted to top this thread, and maybe move the discussion out of the Flare thread, since it’s well away from that brand of steel. 

What can I look at at home to see if steel is loose in Edge holders? My vices are both vertically mounted, so I can’t hold hold horizontally by the steel. Is there a feeling/experience I can look for on the ice that might point to loose steel? 

I’ll ask my sharpener next time I’m there, but it helps me to see things with my own eyes. 

[Vet88 674]

Clamp the steel in the vice then push firmlyish on the side of the skate. You are looking for the holder to move from an upright position and deviate to the side. If it is loose enough you will clearly see the holder go on a lean.

[psulion22 402]

Similarly, how much play is normal for any holder?  Forget a vice or clamp, if I push with my fingers the steel in my Edge moves slightly.  There is definitely a little play.  Is that normal?  Are the issues we're talking about more severe than that?  Obviously they can be, but is any flex in the steel enough to create a loss of acceleration, edge control, and efficiency?  Unfortunately I don't have any skates with an older holder lying around to test against.

I'm asking because I have noticed a marked decrese in my acceleration and efficiency.  A large part is my skates, I believe.  They're MX3's that I got new and have seen a lot of use.  The foam and liner inside is pretty worn and flat, and rubbed through in some spots.  So, my foot is slipping a little bit.  I can also feel flexion in the joint between the toe cap and quarter meaning that joint, the rivets, and/or the outsole is compromised.  SO I'm wondering if the play in the steel is also included in this.  Overall, the skates are feeling sloppy and not as precise as they once did.

[BenBreeg 493]

I still have Turk Custom+ and I cannot get the blade to move at all.  I don’t think you would have to be a pro level skater to notice, but I could be wrong.  I can’t imagine my blade shifting and not being aware.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

1 hour ago, psulion22 said:

Similarly, how much play is normal for any holder?  Forget a vice or clamp, if I push with my fingers the steel in my Edge moves slightly.  There is definitely a little play.  Is that normal?  Are the issues we're talking about more severe than that?  Obviously they can be, but is any flex in the steel enough to create a loss of acceleration, edge control, and efficiency?  Unfortunately I don't have any skates with an older holder lying around to test against.

I'm asking because I have noticed a marked decrese in my acceleration and efficiency.  A large part is my skates, I believe.  They're MX3's that I got new and have seen a lot of use.  The foam and liner inside is pretty worn and flat, and rubbed through in some spots.  So, my foot is slipping a little bit.  I can also feel flexion in the joint between the toe cap and quarter meaning that joint, the rivets, and/or the outsole is compromised.  SO I'm wondering if the play in the steel is also included in this.  Overall, the skates are feeling sloppy and not as precise as they once did.

If they're that old they were done 18 months ago. No they are done holder wise. Even if the boot was in good shape. 

[psulion22 402]

3 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

If they're that old they were done 18 months ago. No they are done holder wise. Even if the boot was in good shape. 

Under further inspection, they are definitely done. The entire outsole is separated from the boot on both skates. The steel definitely moves too. Maybe the damage to the boot was caused by the lack of rigidity and extra torsion in the steel. Oh well. I guess I need new skates now. Maybe I’ll think about switching to XS holders of Flare makes steel for them the next time I need a set. 

[Sniper9 529]

7 hours ago, psulion22 said:

Similarly, how much play is normal for any holder?  Forget a vice or clamp, if I push with my fingers the steel in my Edge moves slightly.  There is definitely a little play.  Is that normal?  Are the issues we're talking about more severe than that?  Obviously they can be, but is any flex in the steel enough to create a loss of acceleration, edge control, and efficiency?  Unfortunately I don't have any skates with an older holder lying around to test against.

I'm asking because I have noticed a marked decrese in my acceleration and efficiency.  A large part is my skates, I believe.  They're MX3's that I got new and have seen a lot of use.  The foam and liner inside is pretty worn and flat, and rubbed through in some spots.  So, my foot is slipping a little bit.  I can also feel flexion in the joint between the toe cap and quarter meaning that joint, the rivets, and/or the outsole is compromised.  SO I'm wondering if the play in the steel is also included in this.  Overall, the skates are feeling sloppy and not as precise as they once did.

It's normal for edge holders to have movement, but it's not normal 🙃. I've never had any movement in my ls2 holders or my SB 4.0. My experience with Edge was a nightmare I'll never go through again. 

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

8 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

It's normal for edge holders to have movement, but it's not normal 🙃. I've never had any movement in my ls2 holders or my SB 4.0. My experience with Edge was a nightmare I'll never go through again. 

Hummm interesting.... I'm not the only one??

[Sprungdownunder 18]

I have a opportunity to buy some LS edge holders with step black steel second hand but in good condition but after reading  this thread I am having second thoughts.

Will all LS edge holders eventually end up with this problem? 
Need some advice before I drop some decent coin on them.

[Lihp8270 5]

On 2/23/2015 at 8:05 AM, x-track said:

I have seen steel 3,03 mm tick as well as 2,88 mm thin

This seems reasonable to be honest. 
 

It’s likely that these are initially cut from stainless steel shit, assuming a 3mm nominal thickness the tightest tolerances would be +/- 0.13mm. With the tolerance getting larger as the stock sheet size gets larger. 

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

I have never had an issue.

[stick9 890]

17 hours ago, Sprungdownunder said:

I have a opportunity to buy some LS edge holders with step black steel second hand but in good condition but after reading  this thread I am having second thoughts.

Will all LS edge holders eventually end up with this problem? 
Need some advice before I drop some decent coin on them.

I think it depends on what you use for steel and how often the blades are removed and reinserted. I have some prostock skates with holders that are pretty beat but the steel is locked in. I have another set of holders on diffetent skates where steel moves a bit more freely.

Edited February 10, 2020 by stick9

[BureKovy 20]

17 hours ago, Sprungdownunder said:

I have a opportunity to buy some LS edge holders with step black steel second hand but in good condition but after reading  this thread I am having second thoughts.

Will all LS edge holders eventually end up with this problem? 
Need some advice before I drop some decent coin on them.

From what I understand this was a problem initially when LS edge came out, which hasn't been a problem in years.  I read this thread but still got them 2.5 years ago on my True skates and haven't had an issue.

[Leif 161]

I have custom Bauer 2S Pro skates with the Edge holders and LS5 black steel blades. I recently noticed the blades clicking when walking rink side. On inspection I can see the left blade moving up and down perhaps 2 mm at the front when pushed. The right blade moves but less so, maybe 1 mm. I can still do skating drills such as forwards three turns, crossovers and power pulls. I’m a decent skater but a low level rec player, only play drop in games and training sessions plus 3 public skating practices a week. 

I skate typically 6 hours a week, the boots are 3 and a half years old, with long skating breaks during covid lockdowns. I rarely change blades, these are the second or third set. I don’t remove the blades and sharpen them at home once a week on a Sparx machine. These blades are 6 to 12 months old, loads of steel still left. This issue wasn’t present when I first got these blades, or with the previous blades. As an aside, Sparx seems to prolong the blade life compared to the LHS sharpen.

It seems from this thread that the movement will noticeably slow me down during sprints. I will try some PTFE tape, or copper tape, I assume the latter is best. Or should I get new holders? Fortunately my LHS is very good, and I trust Mark, the tech guy. I believe it’s a quick job to swap out holders since no new holes are needed. Amazing skates, not so great holders. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Leif

[Sniper9 529]

14 hours ago, Leif said:

I have custom Bauer 2S Pro skates with the Edge holders and LS5 black steel blades. I recently noticed the blades clicking when walking rink side. On inspection I can see the left blade moving up and down perhaps 2 mm at the front when pushed. The right blade moves but less so, maybe 1 mm. I can still do skating drills such as forwards three turns, crossovers and power pulls. I’m a decent skater but a low level rec player, only play drop in games and training sessions plus 3 public skating practices a week. 

I skate typically 6 hours a week, the boots are 3 and a half years old, with long skating breaks during covid lockdowns. I rarely change blades, these are the second or third set. I don’t remove the blades and sharpen them at home once a week on a Sparx machine. These blades are 6 to 12 months old, loads of steel still left. This issue wasn’t present when I first got these blades, or with the previous blades. As an aside, Sparx seems to prolong the blade life compared to the LHS sharpen.

It seems from this thread that the movement will noticeably slow me down during sprints. I will try some PTFE tape, or copper tape, I assume the latter is best. Or should I get new holders? Fortunately my LHS is very good, and I trust Mark, the tech guy. I believe it’s a quick job to swap out holders since no new holes are needed. Amazing skates, not so great holders. 

Just get new holders if you have a trustworthy LHS. 

[Leif 161]

8 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Just get new holders if you have a trustworthy LHS. 

Does the up and down movement matter? I’m reluctant to spend over £100 if it is not needed. 

And I suppose the other issue is how long the skates will last! 

[stick9 890]

On 3/26/2022 at 4:17 AM, Leif said:

I have custom Bauer 2S Pro skates with the Edge holders and LS5 black steel blades. I recently noticed the blades clicking when walking rink side. On inspection I can see the left blade moving up and down perhaps 2 mm at the front when pushed. The right blade moves but less so, maybe 1 mm. I can still do skating drills such as forwards three turns, crossovers and power pulls. I’m a decent skater but a low level rec player, only play drop in games and training sessions plus 3 public skating practices a week. 

I skate typically 6 hours a week, the boots are 3 and a half years old, with long skating breaks during covid lockdowns. I rarely change blades, these are the second or third set. I don’t remove the blades and sharpen them at home once a week on a Sparx machine. These blades are 6 to 12 months old, loads of steel still left. This issue wasn’t present when I first got these blades, or with the previous blades. As an aside, Sparx seems to prolong the blade life compared to the LHS sharpen.

It seems from this thread that the movement will noticeably slow me down during sprints. I will try some PTFE tape, or copper tape, I assume the latter is best. Or should I get new holders? Fortunately my LHS is very good, and I trust Mark, the tech guy. I believe it’s a quick job to swap out holders since no new holes are needed. Amazing skates, not so great holders. 

Does the runner move when the skates are cold? I always found it harder to remove and insert runners when the skates are cold like during use. They're much easier at room temp.

[Leif 161]

On 3/28/2022 at 5:27 AM, stick9 said:

Does the runner move when the skates are cold? I always found it harder to remove and insert runners when the skates are cold like during use. They're much easier at room temp.

Yes. I could with my hand move the front of the blade up and down by 2mm easily. 

Well I had the holders replaced, and the difference is significant. The blades feel much sharper, and my edge control when for example doing power pulls is noticeably better. So, do loose blades impact skating? Very definitely. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 4/15/2022 at 2:13 PM, Leif said:

Yes. I could with my hand move the front of the blade up and down by 2mm easily. 

Well I had the holders replaced, and the difference is significant. The blades feel much sharper, and my edge control when for example doing power pulls is noticeably better. So, do loose blades impact skating? Very definitely. 

Edge holders are notorious for having this issue. Use some tape or other material to create a shim, problem solved. Another option is to replace the holder.

 

On 3/26/2022 at 1:17 AM, Leif said:

I skate typically 6 hours a week, the boots are 3 and a half years old

The holders are three years old, so you should replace them. All holders have a limited life span regardless of your level and how often you skate/play.