Sparx Skate Sharpener - At home sharpener

[rh71el2 3]

9 minutes ago, 218hockey said:

I sharpen skates for one other family and both pairs of their skates are the cheapest, non removable steel. They're always gouged up pretty bad, especially of they've been outside. To get rid of these imperfections completely you'd be cross grinding a mm off every time.

Also, not sure if this is my imagination but I think the Fire edge is more prone to contact damage. ???

I guess that's what I'm asking as far as how much to sharpen until they're acceptable.  Do you just do a specific number of passes and call it a day regardless of how it looks?

[hockeydad3 51]

Make the thumbnail test. If it's not sharp, than you have to do more passes. 

[rh71el2 3]

Turned out to be completely trouble-free on the ice.  Go figure.

[JV23 12]

18 hours ago, rh71el2 said:

I guess that's what I'm asking as far as how much to sharpen until they're acceptable.  Do you just do a specific number of passes and call it a day regardless of how it looks?

I’m probably paraphrasing a bit of an earlier post and adding my own experiences here...  for me it’s all about size and location.  One nick near the back and meh, stone it before you sharpen and let it ride if the rest of the blade is sharp.  An inch long lost edge right in the middle or in the back of the front third of the blade (right about the third of the blade mark from the front), and I make sure it’s gone.  A small one in that range is a bit more judgment but I’d be inclined to stone it and then let it go too.  Probably got through at least half a game with it there.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

14 hours ago, hockeydad3 said:

Make the thumbnail test. If it's not sharp, than you have to do more passes. 

You do realize the "thumbnail test" has zero correlation to whether or not the skate is properly sharpened?

[hockeydad3 51]

3 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

You do realize the "thumbnail test" has zero correlation to whether or not the skate is properly sharpened?

You are right. But if the rest of the blade is sharpened properly, you could get an impression of how much of the nick has been removed.

[Leif 161]

8 hours ago, JV23 said:

I’m probably paraphrasing a bit of an earlier post and adding my own experiences here...  for me it’s all about size and location.  One nick near the back and meh, stone it before you sharpen and let it ride if the rest of the blade is sharp.  An inch long lost edge right in the middle or in the back of the front third of the blade (right about the third of the blade mark from the front), and I make sure it’s gone.  A small one in that range is a bit more judgment but I’d be inclined to stone it and then let it go too.  Probably got through at least half a game with it there.

As above. Small nicks don’t do much harm, but an inch or so of damaged edge probably isn’t good. Mind you, I’ve seen worse damage done by some sharpeners. 

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

10 hours ago, Leif said:

As above. Small nicks don’t do much harm, but an inch or so of damaged edge probably isn’t good. Mind you, I’ve seen worse damage done by some sharpeners. 

Wow  where do you live?

[Leif 161]

2 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Wow  where do you live?

England. I saw one skate with a step along the length of the blade hollow. The skate wasn't high enough in the holder when sharpened, so the wheel created a step. It's not uncommon to see a BAT gauge tilt significantly one way at the front of the blade, and the other way at the back of the blade. A few nicks in a blade are insignificant in comparison. I used to only go to sharpeners I could trust, before getting a Sparx of course.

[Giltis 116]

COVID has made the sharpener closest to me close down, and the only other guy that I trust is 45 mins away without traffic. I think I'm ready to take the plunge. 

Any quick tips or Discount code available? As extras I'm thinking of getting the cover, the edge checker and the Goalie Blade holder (would this work on normal blades too? As I am usually a player and play goalie only on occasion).

[marka 526]

Howdy,

Original machine here vs. the current one, but I would assume this all still applies...

Absolutely make sure to get an edge checker.  I do skates for friends, some of which have been sharpened by a Sparx prior to me and its very common to have them have uneven edges.  The alignment tool gets to somewhere near, but without an edge checker you can't actually know for sure if your edges are level.  So my main tip is to actually check the level after you run a pair of skates and adjust based on what you see.  For me, the adjustment will stay true for the same grinding wheel and most others.  I've definitely had a wheel where I needed to make 3 to 4 clicks of adjustment when I used it however.  I assume the center of that wheel was slightly off the center of the other wheels.

As to the Sparx edge checker vs. others... I have both a cheapo ebay one as well as the Sparx.  I would say that both do a reasonable job, but the Sparx one "feels nicer" and is easier to use.  The spring loaded clamp is easier than a thumbscrew and the crossbar is a little longer, which highlights height differences slightly better.  But it also costs $100 or whatever more than the ebay one so...

I have the cover and like it.  Its nothing magical but it fits well and I didn't have to break out the sewing machine.  Again, on a budget a pillow case laying on the machine will do the same job, just a little more finicky to put on and won't look as good.

One non-Sparx accessory I really like is the Speed Skate that Wissota sells.  https://wissota.com/product/speed-skate/
This helps get a more mirror finish and while I've not scientifically tested, does indeed seem to help glide.  You can't do a "finish pass" on a Sparx like a good sharpener can with a manual machine and I feel like this gets you closer to that type of finish.

Mark

[marka 526]

Howdy,

One other tip... I actually ran a pair of older cheapo skates the other day that apparently had the sides of the runner not perpendicular to the edge / parallel to each other.  I didn't think to use machinist tools to actually measure the difference, but the edge checker read way out with the skate facing one way and pretty good with the skate facing the other (and no, this doesn't happen with other skates).

So my general tip is that when you see something wonky, question your assumptions a bit and do things like (in my case above) measure with the skate in the other direction / using the other side of the blade as the reference point.  Stuff like that often SHOULDN'T matter, but QC is a thing that can vary.  Similarly, it took me way too long to figure out that the center of one grinding wheel I had was slightly off the others and that's why I was having to adjust the machine to get level edges...  I initially thought the skates I was using that wheel on were different in some way, which didn't make any sense.

Mark

[Leif 161]

Haven’t you read all of the posts in this thread? Please do so. 🤣

Being serious, I second Mark’s comments apart from the Wissota polisher remarks as I haven’t tried it. I have the original machine, and I do two passes each week to refresh the hollows, skating about 7 hours a week. Wheels are pricey, the starter pack might be worth trying, although in my case I skate on 7/16” and 5/8” included in the starter pack is too shallow. Your Black Friday holiday is coming soon, perhaps they’ll have a Black Friday deal. Then again, it might be best to just buy now given the distance of your sharpener from your home.

I was given some wheels including two 5/16”, I don’t see myself trying those ones.

[218hockey 50]

4 hours ago, Leif said:

 Wheels are pricey,

Are they ever. And just went up in price too. Wow. No aftermarket, no bundle deals, nothing.

[Leif 161]

2 hours ago, 218hockey said:

Are they ever. And just went up in price too. Wow. No aftermarket, no bundle deals, nothing.

They are even more spendy in the UK and Europe. 

[krisdrum 233]

@Giltis Take my comments with a grain of salt, I haven't used a Sparx. However, I do use a ProSharp Home on a regular basis (not mine, but a family member has one, so my only investment in this so far is a single grind wheel that my son and I share).  Based on the recent comments (expensive wheels, needing to adjust after wheel swaps in some cases), you might want to explore the ProSharp option.  Now, their wheels are expensive as well, but you get way more sharpenings out of them (I did the math a few years ago and if memory serves the Sparx was more expensive to own and maintain after 3 or 4 wheel changes than the ProSharp was thanks to more sharpenings per wheel) and if Sparx just raised their prices, the value likely leans even more towards ProSharp.  I've also never had any issues swapping between wheels and needing to re-align as long as I make sure the newly installed wheel is all the way on the spindle.  And we share the machine, so I am swapping my wheel in every time I need to sharpen and putting their wheel back on after I finish.  No complains of bad edges on our end or theirs that I am aware of.  I usually do 2 passes and then hone with a course stone, fine stone and strop on high end standard finish stainless runners (Step).

Now I can't comment on the quality of the sharpening by both, but will say I have been impressed with the ProSharp machine.  Honestly, the honing takes more time and effort than the sharpening.    

[Leif 161]

I find it hard to believe that the Prosharp Home works out cheaper after 3 or 4 wheel changes. In the UK it is a bit over £1600 including tax and shipping. The Sparx is £787 including shipping and tax. We pay £70 for a wheel, so the difference is more than ten wheels. And the Sparx is cheaper in the US due to lower shipping costs. I bought the original Sparx which cost me £1200 including shipping. 

One Sparx wheel lasts me 18 months, one two pass sharpen per week. 

The reason the Sparx is cheaper is because it’s made in China, the ProSharp is made in Sweden. 

[Giltis 116]

Thanks @krisdrum for your insight, but I am in Canada, and it's the reason why I'm considering the Sparx at the moment.

[krisdrum 233]

14 hours ago, Leif said:

I find it hard to believe that the Prosharp Home works out cheaper after 3 or 4 wheel changes. In the UK it is a bit over £1600 including tax and shipping. The Sparx is £787 including shipping and tax. We pay £70 for a wheel, so the difference is more than ten wheels. And the Sparx is cheaper in the US due to lower shipping costs. I bought the original Sparx which cost me £1200 including shipping. 

One Sparx wheel lasts me 18 months, one two pass sharpen per week. 

The reason the Sparx is cheaper is because it’s made in China, the ProSharp is made in Sweden. 

 

12 hours ago, Giltis said:

Thanks @krisdrum for your insight, but I am in Canada, and it's the reason why I'm considering the Sparx at the moment.

Ok, sorry, don't want to derail this thread, but I ran the numbers again for my own curiosity and unless I am missing something the units are much closer in price to operate to the same amount of sharpenings, at least from my US-based perspective.  YMMV in your location.

	ProSharp Home	Sparx Pro	Sparx adjusted to equal 500 sharps
Machine	1400	900	900
Wheels, each after initial purchase	100	65	520
Claimed sharpenings per wheel	500	60	8 Sparx wheels = 1 ProSharp
Total	1400		1420

 

If you are looking at the newer Sparx, you are saying $200, which is about 3 wheels worth of saving.  Granted the upfront costs of the ProSharp are higher and not everyone can drop $1400.  Just food for thought for those looking at the long term value of the two machines.   

[marka 526]

Howdy,

1 hour ago, krisdrum said:

 

Ok, sorry, don't want to derail this thread, but I ran the numbers again for my own curiosity and unless I am missing something the units are much closer in price to operate to the same amount of sharpenings, at least from my US-based perspective.  YMMV in your location.

	ProSharp Home	Sparx Pro	Sparx adjusted to equal 500 sharps
Machine	1400	900	900
Wheels, each after initial purchase	100	65	520
Claimed sharpenings per wheel	500	60	8 Sparx wheels = 1 ProSharp
Total	1400		1420

 

If you are looking at the newer Sparx, you are saying $200, which is about 3 wheels worth of saving.  Granted the upfront costs of the ProSharp are higher and not everyone can drop $1400.  Just food for thought for those looking at the long term value of the two machines.   

Are you accounting for the (apparently) different definitions of "sharpening" each company uses?
 

I'm not in a position to validate any of these claims.  I will say that as a home user, these break-even analysis things have a much lesser importance to me as compared to machine reliability, ease of use, support, etc. etc.  I don't know exactly how many sharpens I have total over the 3.5 years I've owned it, but I would be pretty surprised if its remotely close to 500. 

Btw, another benefit of (relatively) less expensive grinding rings is that its not the end of the world to me to have a bunch, so that I can sharpen friend's skates to whatever they prefer.

edit:  This page also seems to indicate that ProSharp grinding wheels are $130 and you'll get between 100 to 167 complete sharpens for the ProSharp.
https://prosharp.us/collections/consumeables/products/ep-wheel-fine-100mm

edit again:  That link apparently isn't for the right wheels.  This one is, and it matches the #'s you talk about.  Sorry about that!
https://prosharp.us/collections/consumeables/products/sharpening-wheel-home

Surprised that the home wheel would last longer than the 100mm wheel but ??

Anyway, I've been really happy with my Sparx, but there are plenty of ways to skin this cat.

Mark

Edited August 27, 2021 by marka

[krisdrum 233]

58 minutes ago, marka said:

Howdy,

Are you accounting for the (apparently) different definitions of "sharpening" each company uses?
 

I'm not in a position to validate any of these claims.  I will say that as a home user, these break-even analysis things have a much lesser importance to me as compared to machine reliability, ease of use, support, etc. etc.  I don't know exactly how many sharpens I have total over the 3.5 years I've owned it, but I would be pretty surprised if its remotely close to 500. 

Btw, another benefit of (relatively) less expensive grinding rings is that its not the end of the world to me to have a bunch, so that I can sharpen friend's skates to whatever they prefer.

edit:  This page also seems to indicate that ProSharp grinding wheels are $130 and you'll get between 100 to 167 complete sharpens for the ProSharp.
https://prosharp.us/collections/consumeables/products/ep-wheel-fine-100mm

That's way different than the numbers you have above.

Anyway, I've been really happy with my Sparx, but there are plenty of ways to skin this cat.

Mark

My analysis is based solely on product claims easily found on each of their websites.  If there is additional information on either/both, that is great to know, but it was not part of my breakdown. Update: After reading through Russ' response... I think you have to take it with a grain of salt, unless he wants to share the results of those head-to-head tests.  I'm sure both units a good machines, with their pros and cons.  It would be nice if someone would do a head-to-head to assess long-term value in a controlled unbiased environment.

As I mentioned earlier, I am not in the market for a machine, I have access to one already and the $100 grinding wheel entry price was more than reasonable for me.  My son and I have been sharing it for the last 18+ months with great results.  Well worth the price considering we've only had a handful of times his blades were damaged enough to necessitate a trip to our LHS to get it sorted by a trained professional. 

As for the product page you linked to, not for the Home version, for the SkatePal.  The Home machine wheels are $99.99 USD.  No clue what the difference is or why 1 is more expensive for seemingly less sharpenings. 

Reading through the recent responses, I saw a few issues mentioned that I haven't experienced with the Home machine I have access to.  If those issues are deal breakers or something that is giving folks pause, I figured I'd mention my experience with the ProSharp.  Nothing more, nothing less, I've got no skin in this game.  My son and I and our extended family (3 serious players in that household) have been very happy with the results the ProSharp provides.  YMMV.

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by krisdrum
Read the additional information offered by Russ aka ZamboniFever

[Leif 161]

I agree with your comments that we need a proper comparison by a disinterested party. I assumed the ProSharp claim of 500 sharpenings meant cycles, but they say 2-3 cycles per sharpen, and 500 pairs of skates per wheel. Assuming 2 cycles per sharpen, that means 2 * 2 * 500 cycles per wheel ie 2000, which compares to 320 cycles per Sparx wheel ie roughly 6 times as many cycles per ProSharp wheel. If only ProSharp stated the number of cycles per wheel! Assuming my figures are right, here in the UK a Sparx wheel is about £75, so one ProSharp wheel compares to £113 for a ProSharp wheel. Six Sparx wheels cost  £450, which would last me 9 years, and an extra £337 over ProSharp. So for me in the UK the ProSharp Home is about £800 more expensive than a Sparx, it would take me over 20 years to start saving with the ProSharp. For a team of 20 players, they would save in one year assuming all use the same wheel. In practice you might need 4 or 5 wheels, so it’d take maybe 5 years to save. I think you need less time in the US to save as prices are much lower eg no VAT at 20%. 

I worked  out that the Sparx paid for itself in three years, and I paid £1200, as I save on car use to and from the LHS at £10, and the cost of the sharpen at £8.

Added later:

I found further details about ProSharp wheels in a PDF here: https://www.prosharp.eu/pub_docs/files/Engelska/SkatePal-EP-wheels.pdf

This states that for fine wheels, which hockey players will use, each wheel gives 1,000 cycles, so roughly 3 times as many sharpens as a Sparx wheel assuming 2 cycles per skate. The 500 sharpens figure from ProSharp must assume 1 cycle per sharpen, which IMO is inadequate unless you sharpen before each skate. In any case, my earlier figures are wrong, it’d take me 40 years to start saving with the ProSharp. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Leif

[helmet91 15]

We've had our Sparx just over two years... I bought it while we were still in the US when my oldest boys were playing Squirt AA.  My youngest two also skated, albeit with nowhere near the frequency of the other two.  I also played a little old man hockey in the summer.  We were a good hour to our "home" rink pro-shop or any of the big box hockey shops - the Sparx saved so much time and allowed me to avoid the crap shoot of who is actually doing the sharpening.

Now that we're in the NL the Sparx is a godsend.  Throw in COVID, goofy shop hours or even trying to track down a reliable person to do the sharpening and the Sparx has been worth its weight in gold.  I honestly don't care about crunching the numbers - the reliability and convenience were worth every penny.

[start_today 770]

13 hours ago, helmet91 said:

I honestly don't care about crunching the numbers - the reliability and convenience were worth every penny.

I feel like when some people do hardcore number crunching on purchases, they leave out the value of personal time and mental energy. 

Not having to stress and worry about something is a huge win. Even if a Sparx is only 90% as good as a perfect sharpening, how often do you get that perfect sharpening. 

For me, I don’t want the stress of doing the Sparx wrong, and getting through the learning curve, haha. That’s why I go to a shop I trust. But, if I didn’t have that shop, I’d opt for the “good enough” option that creates the least headache. 

[Leif 161]

2 hours ago, start_today said:

I feel like when some people do hardcore number crunching on purchases, they leave out the value of personal time and mental energy. 

Not having to stress and worry about something is a huge win. Even if a Sparx is only 90% as good as a perfect sharpening, how often do you get that perfect sharpening. 

For me, I don’t want the stress of doing the Sparx wrong, and getting through the learning curve, haha. That’s why I go to a shop I trust. But, if I didn’t have that shop, I’d opt for the “good enough” option that creates the least headache. 

Even my good LHS never did a perfect sharpening. In my experience the Sparx does the closest you’ll ever get. The profile is  preserved, the edges are level, what’s not to like? Before I got one I drove 25 miles to get a sharpening. 50 miles round trip, a morning written off, petrol and car to pay for, and sharpening to pay for. There’s almost no learning curve with a Sparx. But do buy the edge checker ie BAT gauge.