VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[IPv6Freely 2092]

1 hour ago, Skate Mod said:

Flip12… you have a lot to learn on skate engineering and bio-mechanics before making ridiculous statements.

Lets go ahead and tone is down on the personal comments. Everyone here is entitled to providing their viewpoint. 

[VinDeez 3]

I'm looking forward to being able to grab a pair one day soon.

Anyone here from Winnipeg? They opened their new showroom here where the skates are made and you can get fitted.

[Fletch 219]

1 hour ago, VinDeez said:

I'm looking forward to being able to grab a pair one day soon.

Anyone here from Winnipeg? They opened their new showroom here where the skates are made and you can get fitted.

That's nice and convenient for you, haha.  Is the showroom nice?

[VinDeez 3]

16 minutes ago, Fletch said:

That's nice and convenient for you, haha.  Is the showroom nice?

I've just seen pictures, I think the grand opening was last week, but apparently that's where all the skates are going to be made. I just wish I knew someone that worked there and could get me a discount lol. Van Horne was in the old office I worked at talking about marketing a few years ago, really nice guy, amazing how far they have come.

[Vet88 674]

5 hours ago, Skate Mod said:

Graf initially was engineered by a speed skater not a hockey player, with one goal in mind speed. Graf went out of business because of aggressive boot pitch, low cut boot, soft boot and lack of understanding what works in hockey, they dominated because at the time no one knew too much what works in hockey.

Players are injured today because they are fixated on speed and nothing else with 13-foot profiles and flat spots; those that skate on smaller radius and no flat spot are less prone to injury.

True is engineered by a speed skater (Scott), so with your Graf comments in mind do you expect True to go the same way because they don't know what "works in hockey"???

There is a countering and growing argument to the high cut, ultra stiff, limited forward flexion, rigid ankle lock design that some of todays manufacturers are pushing in the desperate search for more speed and this is what some suspect is leading to more injuries. Lets take a common training technique in Europe and that a lot of professional players still use today, skate and train with no laces. Regardless of what skate you are in, now everything you said about graf (and I won't dive into the murky world of corporate and player sponsorship here as a reason for them going out of business) comes into play (low cut, soft boot, balanced forward on the balls of your feet) yet players are not getting injured from this? 

ParkseY - your boot was built to your foot shape (if you used the 3D scan) so adding superfeet is going to change that. Zac covers this in earlier posts. I don't know if this will work for you but you may want to try a reprofile on your blade with a +2 pitch (get the center moved forward). This will put you more onto your heel. Changing boots is activating different muscles in your skating technique, if you want to simulate a True fit in your Bauer skates then try dropping an eyelet or 2 and skate this way in your Bauer skates for a couple of months. The increased forward flexion and ankle roll you will get will help activate those muscles you are struggling with when you skate in True skates. Then try your True skates again.

[215BroadStBullies610 435]

On 9/23/2017 at 6:41 PM, Fletch said:

Spotted a linesman using the skates with the Step holder, looks like he tried to (had to?) black out the outside silver panel.  

I'd imagine he wanted to. From guys I know who work minor league hockey, they are usually given buckets, sweaters and pants. Could be wrong though...

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

19 hours ago, Skate Mod said:

 

 

Graf initially was engineered by a speed skater not a hockey player, with one goal in mind speed. Graf went out of business because of aggressive boot pitch, low cut boot, soft boot and lack of understanding what works in hockey, they dominated because at the time no one knew too much what works in hockey.

 

Players are injured today because they are fixated on speed and nothing else with 13-foot profiles and flat spots; those that skate on smaller radius and no flat spot are less prone to injury.

 

Graf went out of business because the new CEO spent way to much on trying to "redesign" the whole thing instead of continuing with the skates that got them there and working on new liners and outers nothing more nothing less. I am baffled on how you think everyone here knows nothing about hockey and skates and boot and pitch and biomechanics??? YOU HAVE 8 FING POSTS!!!!

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

On 9/25/2017 at 1:42 PM, dougie360 said:

Had my VH skates for just over a year now, skating 2-3 times a week.  Had been great until recently.  Now all of a sudden, just after I lace up, I feel this edge cutting into the top of my right inside ankle.  When I start walking to the ice, it hurts a lot and I feel the top edge just above the last eyelet really cutting in.  I'm thinking that no way I can last a whole game.  I re-lace, adjust, but it's still there.  So I skate and luckily it goes away.  But its been coming back every time I lace up.  

I got these Pre-True, so I emailed one of the sales people I bought my skates from VH who forwarded my email to True.  They suggested I purchase the Metatarsal tongues as a replacement  for $80 USD.  (I already paid for my skates last year in USD at full price expecting some good exchange rate - but learned it wasn't going to happen). 

Hope this fixes it.

Take a heat gun and warm the area and gently roll that section back out the opposite way. Put a water bottle full in the skate and let sit over night standing straight up. Sometimes if the skate is really warm laying in the sun or in a trunk and it pushes say that spot in it could have curled it inward and nothing more than rolling it back out. try that and see how it goes!

[dougie360 1]

2 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Take a heat gun and warm the area and gently roll that section back out the opposite way. Put a water bottle full in the skate and let sit over night standing straight up. Sometimes if the skate is really warm laying in the sun or in a trunk and it pushes say that spot in it could have curled it inward and nothing more than rolling it back out. try that and see how it goes!

Thanks.  I probably should have done this before ordering the new tongues.  

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

On 9/26/2017 at 1:29 PM, Skate Mod said:

 

 

 

 

Graf initially was engineered by a speed skater not a hockey player, with one goal in mind speed. Graf went out of business because of aggressive boot pitch, low cut boot, soft boot and lack of understanding what works in hockey, they dominated because at the time no one knew too much what works in hockey.

 

Players are injured today because they are fixated on speed and nothing else with 13-foot profiles and flat spots; those that skate on smaller radius and no flat spot are less prone to injury.

 

Ice skates from swiss production

Graf & Co. was established in Kreuzlingen in 1921 by Karl Graf’s grandfather. Graf then produced a wide range of all kinds of sport shoes: from soccer, -bike, -hiking, up to tennis boots, etc. From 1937 the first ice skates were introduced into the range of products and from 1974 became specialists in ice hockey and figure skating boots.

Since 1997 GRAF CANADA LTD. has produced high -quality hockey- and figure skating boots for the Canadian and North American market. GRAF SKATES AG, Kreuzlingen exports approximately 85% of its production world wide except to USA and Canada. Main markets amongst others are Russia, Scandinavia and Germany. For the Japanese market ice skates are produced on particular lasts (shape of foots).

 

Huummm nothing about speed skates here??

[Skate Mod 4]

I apologize I did not realize that post count is the main deciding factor on level of expertise.

And Yes I stand behind my statement 100% not only Scott, so is anyone one else from the speed skating industry has no clue about what works in hockey and what doesn’t. Because the speed skating industry is build on Hobby approach, Olympic athletes use guys that build skates in their small shops with almost zero R&D.

There is no money in speed skating industry at a high level and there is no low level, so no one will invest millions of dollars in R&D without any returns, for this reason it’s a hobby approach with exception of Bont that started in the 70’s. Everybody else copied Bont and their ideas including Scott, so I repeat he has zero knowledge on skate engineering, skate development or R&D when it comes to hockey.

Jeff if you want to get personal, you don’t know me, but I know you, you have zero credibility in my book because I saw you skate once and this told me everything I need to know about your level of expertise.

To give proper advice you must be able to relate to the person you are giving advise too because hockey is as much about feel as science, so if you call yourself an expert with high post count, you must be at least at a decent skating level to test any technology that comes your way and formulate an intelligent opinion.

If you sit in your office and formulate opinions based on this guy came in liked it and this guy came in didn’t like it, you are not an expert you are a “Poll Conductor”.

For some reason you are still unable to put forward an engineering argument for True skate and why it is better.

At the risk of very cheesy self promotion click on my profile then click on my webpage and read in the section of “ Skate Fit vs. Skate Function”. You will understand why things the way they are.

[Skate Mod 4]

Vet88, it all goes back to my original statement R&D they are pushing it because at a high level skates break down much faster then at a consumer level, so they over engineer on purpose to test how much adaption is there from pro players, if they go too far they dial it down in the next model. Without proper and intelligent  R&D process you wont find that fine line where to push it. At this point comparing True's R&D to Bauer is comparing a 12 year old boxing against an adult heavy weight.

Technology is never built for a superior athlete go back to manual transmission vs automatic, it's built to take an average athlete and move him or her to a much higher level. This is where smart R&D is critical.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Skate Mod

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

51 minutes ago, Skate Mod said:

I apologize I did not realize that post count is the main deciding factor on level of expertise.

 

And Yes I stand behind my statement 100% not only Scott, so is anyone one else from the speed skating industry has no clue about what works in hockey and what doesn’t. Because the speed skating industry is build on Hobby approach, Olympic athletes use guys that build skates in their small shops with almost zero R&D.

 

There is no money in speed skating industry at a high level and there is no low level, so no one will invest millions of dollars in R&D without any returns, for this reason it’s a hobby approach with exception of Bont that started in the 70’s. Everybody else copied Bont and their ideas including Scott, so I repeat he has zero knowledge on skate engineering, skate development or R&D when it comes to hockey.

 

Jeff if you want to get personal, you don’t know me, but I know you, you have zero credibility in my book because I saw you skate once and this told me everything I need to know about your level of expertise.

 

To give proper advice you must be able to relate to the person you are giving advise too because hockey is as much about feel as science, so if you call yourself an expert with high post count, you must be at least at a decent skating level to test any technology that comes your way and formulate an intelligent opinion.

 

If you sit in your office and formulate opinions based on this guy came in liked it and this guy came in didn’t like it, you are not an expert you are a “Poll Conductor”.

 

For some reason you are still unable to put forward an engineering argument for True skate and why it is better.

 

At the risk of very cheesy self promotion click on my profile then click on my webpage and read in the section of “ Skate Fit vs. Skate Function”. You will understand why things the way they are.

 

My expertise has zero to do with post count. It has to do with an eye for seeing people having an issue and being able to adjust that skate to accommodate them on the ice. If you look way back on one of the first posts I saw an issue with the original 190 supreme and the negative pitch. I did some modifications and the proof was in the video of the player skating in them. Since that time I have worked with hundreds of players and have been hired by many to asses the skates they are wearing and make the adjustments. 

 

Listen I am not hear to make it a personal thing and I could really care less if you think I suck at skating. But seeing as I have not skated since 2004 as a player then hey glad you remember all the way back then when I skated. Anything since then is a pretty poor attempt at it. I pretty much suck on the ice now. Well except coaching in my VH skates I actually look like I can skate now!

 

I was looking for your degree's or anything on your website but I do not see anything personal on there. All the people I have worked with and so on are clearly marked on mine. If your going to hide in the shadows all the power to ya. Have a great day!

[the_game 452]

Hey @Skate Mod I read you’re manifesto, I mean website...gotta say some real great info, other stuff, a little head scratching. I need to give it another tons of info!

I’m with @oldtrainerguy28 and am kind of curious of your background here. Biomechanics phd? Former R&D at one of the big companies? Pro skate rep?

My post count or 23 second of a men’s league shift where I can actually skate halfway decent don’t make me an expert, but I’m of a mindset where I’ll trust someone based on their background, etc.

I’ve been around the block a little and your site is fascinating, but I’ve never seen anyone skating with a ‘H’ notched out of their boot. That said, I’m curious to know more and hear some more info from you.

[VegasHockey 1280]

6 hours ago, the_game said:

Hey @Skate Mod I read you’re manifesto, I mean website...gotta say some real great info, other stuff, a little head scratching. I need to give it another tons of info!

I’m with @oldtrainerguy28 and am kind of curious of your background here. Biomechanics phd? Former R&D at one of the big companies? Pro skate rep?

My post count or 23 second of a men’s league shift where I can actually skate halfway decent don’t make me an expert, but I’m of a mindset where I’ll trust someone based on their background, etc.

I’ve been around the block a little and your site is fascinating, but I’ve never seen anyone skating with a ‘H’ notched out of their boot. That said, I’m curious to know more and hear some more info from you.

I am literally stumped looking at the H Cut. Before I go on a rant saying "you ruined a pair of $800+ skates for why!?" I would also like to hear more about this. I have never once seen a pro or novice with such and I have played at all levels of hockey. 

[chocks86 82]

10 hours ago, Skate Mod said:

I apologize I did not realize that post count is the main deciding factor on level of expertise.

 

And Yes I stand behind my statement 100% not only Scott, so is anyone one else from the speed skating industry has no clue about what works in hockey and what doesn’t. Because the speed skating industry is build on Hobby approach, Olympic athletes use guys that build skates in their small shops with almost zero R&D.

 

There is no money in speed skating industry at a high level and there is no low level, so no one will invest millions of dollars in R&D without any returns, for this reason it’s a hobby approach with exception of Bont that started in the 70’s. Everybody else copied Bont and their ideas including Scott, so I repeat he has zero knowledge on skate engineering, skate development or R&D when it comes to hockey.

 

Jeff if you want to get personal, you don’t know me, but I know you, you have zero credibility in my book because I saw you skate once and this told me everything I need to know about your level of expertise.

 

To give proper advice you must be able to relate to the person you are giving advise too because hockey is as much about feel as science, so if you call yourself an expert with high post count, you must be at least at a decent skating level to test any technology that comes your way and formulate an intelligent opinion.

 

If you sit in your office and formulate opinions based on this guy came in liked it and this guy came in didn’t like it, you are not an expert you are a “Poll Conductor”.

 

For some reason you are still unable to put forward an engineering argument for True skate and why it is better.

 

At the risk of very cheesy self promotion click on my profile then click on my webpage and read in the section of “ Skate Fit vs. Skate Function”. You will understand why things the way they are.

 

Sir, I think it's time for you to step back, take a break and a deep breath. It is really not a bright idea to come on to a forum as a brand new person and start ruffling feathers, making claims that you know everything, are an expert, and others are wrong. It will not be well received. Your tone and personnel attacks to some are definitely not needed and will likely not be tolerated. I'm not a moderator on here, but just take this as a friendly advice and a fair warning, or your time here might be short.  

Edited September 28, 2017 by chocks86

[Fletch 219]

Skating for the third time tonight on my Trues, I will write up some thoughts eventually... lol.  Overall I really like them so far.

[Monty22 833]

44 minutes ago, Fletch said:

Skating for the third time tonight on my Trues, I will write up some thoughts eventually... lol.  Overall I really like them so far.

Glad to hear you were able to overcome the lack of R&D and all that speed skating tech to make them work...

[Fletch 219]

1 hour ago, Monty22 said:

Glad to hear you were able to overcome the lack of R&D and all that speed skating tech to make them work...

First skate was a pretty fast private pickup and I scored 7 goals... give me lack of R&D and speed skating tech from now on, please ;)

[boo10 323]

@Skate Mod I'm always interested in the opinions of others, as I believe that's how we learn and make progress.  I am a little confused by your post though, as I've interpreted your comments to be, Graf was inferior because they were too soft and low cut....Bauer is superior for hockey because they are stiff and high cut.  That in itself is fine, (though I would not agree).  What confuses me is you offering solutions (H-cut, etc.) which seem to only serve to bring the performance of the stiff boot back closer to that of the softer boot. 

 

[Kgbeast 195]

watch preseason game yesterday ando noticed that more Blue Jackets added to True ranks. Matt Calvert is a new one this year from old line, plus a handful of new commers. It looks like Bobrovski is looking into a change. He was in VH boot and CCM cowling last year, but it looks like he is sporting a one piece VH goalie now.

[AfftonDad 88]

All those stupid professional hockey players using them. How foolish they are. They must only be using them because of the sponsorship deals.

Edited October 2, 2017 by AfftonDad

[Larry54 243]

Call me an idiot, but I bought a pair of custom-made skates that fit me from the get-go instead of buying a pair of big-name skates that despite being backed by millions of dollars of R&D have to be customized by some unknown self-proclaimed expert with an @yahoo.com e-mail. 

[AfftonDad 88]

21 minutes ago, Larry54 said:

Call me an idiot, but I bought a pair of custom-made skates that fit me from the get-go instead of buying a pair of big-name skates that despite being backed by millions of dollars of R&D have to be customized by some unknown self-proclaimed expert with an @yahoo.com e-mail. 

And a Weebly (free) website whose domain was registered just 7 days ago (the same time he started posting here). Interesting business model... piss off your potential customers. I guess he follows the "there is no bad publicity" philosophy.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

41 minutes ago, Larry54 said:

Call me an idiot, but I bought a pair of custom-made skates that fit me from the get-go instead of buying a pair of big-name skates that despite being backed by millions of dollars of R&D have to be customized by some unknown self-proclaimed expert with an @yahoo.com e-mail. 

With all that R&D money you'd think they could make me something that didn't hurt my feet.