VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

4 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

CCM and Bauer pro spec skates are usually heavier. From the ones I have owned I would say about 35+ grams per skate. I had a pair of FT1 recently with integrated shot blockers and some other additions and they weigh about 120 grams per skate over retail. Very close to True. 

Well for one McDavids are as heavy as a pair of NHL Trues. McDavid and Strome similar size and if anything Stromes were lighter. Jack Hughes custom CCM is atleast 50 to 75g heavier than Ture skates his size. 

[jared9356 39]

56 minutes ago, smu said:

I would make sure that your holders are on straight looking at your rivets to see if hey are parallel as well make sure the heel is not too large and they too long. Check inside the toe to see id there has been any extra material to make them feel as if they fit better making you toes seem to touch near the end of the toe box. If you have these inserts it makes you boots longer and you have to overcome that extra length that you don't want to have just for normal crossovers. This extra length should not be there for you own sake. The skate should be made to fit without and extra long toe!

Look them over carefully, please, it might surprise you. You want what you pay for, not just a easy way out for True to hide their mistakes.

I’ll be going over them thoroughly. I dropped a g and I expect to get a comfortable skate. My feet are pretty standard so as long as they can address the few minuscule issues I have, I’ll be happy. So far they have been easy to communicate with and I think I’ve gotten my “vision” across to them.

[Sniper9 530]

1 hour ago, smu said:

I would make sure that your holders are on straight looking at your rivets to see if hey are parallel as well make sure the heel is not too large and they too long. Check inside the toe to see id there has been any extra material to make them feel as if they fit better making you toes seem to touch near the end of the toe box. If you have these inserts it makes you boots longer and you have to overcome that extra length that you don't want to have just for normal crossovers. This extra length should not be there for you own sake. The skate should be made to fit without and extra long toe!

Look them over carefully, please, it might surprise you. You want what you pay for, not just a easy way out for True to hide their mistakes.

Those inserts are not necessarily a bad thing. What if someone's feet are so different that it would cause two diff holder sizes?  In this case I would rather have inserts and two same size holders. Everyone has been wearing skates that have identical size pairs anyways. Why would they need to relearn how to skate with two skates that are the same size? If anything it would be extremely difficult to learn to skate with two completely different sized skates that had diff sized holders. Sure you can have the same size holders on two different size skates but even then that might not work if the one skate can't take a longer (or shorter) holder. 

[Vet88 674]

If your feet were 2 different sizes by a significant amount (ie a size 6 and a size 7) then making a longer boot and padding it in the toe is a valid way to address the length differential. What smu is saying the boots should fit your feet, not be too long or too wide or have too much volume. They should not have padding in the toes because they were made too long or extra thick soles to try and take out volume because they were made too large or need heel inserts because the heel pocket is too big.

[smu 29]

2 hours ago, Vet88 said:

What smu is saying the boots should fit your feet, not be too long or too wide or have too much volume. They should not have padding in the toes because they were made too long or extra thick soles to try and take out volume because they were made too large or need heel inserts because the heel pocket is too big.

This is exactly it! I have first hand knowledge of this. My feet are the same length, but I could not feel the toe box even to feather my toes when put on initially, then when laced up my toes seemed to be halfway back in the toe box. All kinds of other issues that were wrong as well and I will mention below. I tried them on the ice just to say that I did  and they were were huge. My LHS was great and sent the skates back to be redone completely with the host of other issues that will become apparent. I get them back without anything being changed except I could feel my toes very slightly in the toe box.  Thinking my skates had been fixed as I could feel the toes slightly in the toe box I felt very happy, but, not so! What I discovered when I got the skates home was True just added dense foam material 6 mm taped (looked like masking tape) to the front toe box to make it feel as if my skates had been made to fit and also given a thicker red bottom sole to try and fix issues of volume perhaps, who knows? Only a remake should have been done with all the other issues that were completely wrong.

I am completely unsatisfied, skates too large, and crooked rivets (not parallel)leaving crooked holders, leading to bent steel and the rivets were wrongly placed, but still in the exact same position. They could not even bother to fix this. The heel pocket is most important as it is at least two pencil sizes too large in the lower heel area my old Superfeet slide from side to side., how would that make you feel when you asked for a tight heel pocked and this was 1/2" wider than my original Bauer skates! This issue was a problem expressed to True originally, that I have a narrow foot and need a tight heel pocket.  Nothing fixed what-so-ever. I did not want to post this, but you talk about frustration. I take a boot that dwarfs the True. I don't mind the weight, but not their second "remake" as nothing was done except some but in my toe box with skates that are way too long for me to begin with, along with double the thickness underlay for the insole to make up for my volume issue, I guess. My heel area is 2" across in my Bauer skates the True must be 2.5" or more just where I had said my problems lie.Having pronation my ankle would roll around a skate that was too large in this area and any posting I would do would move with with the ankle in the large ankle area. With my pronation problems and the only reason of going with True (and the video that Scott Van Horne has on YouTube says he was a pronator and wanted to make a skate that could suit all people) I thought this skate would be perfect. Well. I can't get a "true answer of what they actually do for you other than make a stiff or stiffer boot! Far cry from what I was told before True took over.

Less than two years ago you could even have VH send you foam boxes to be sent back like what you do when you go to the podiatrist for orthotics to make sure the foot bed was perfect. I see nothing like this anymore, you take what you get and tha't it! There was a time that VH would do a heck of a lot better and do whatever you needed.

Now I am into round two and the skates will be going back again demanding a complete remake. I have everything photographed as to the first pair to the second remake and there is absolutely no change in all of the glaring mistakes except for the cheap filer of the toe box that I did not want in the first "remake" and the thicker red pad for under the insole? I cannot believe it!

I did not want to post this whole thing, but I am so upset I am beside myself. When I first got the skates I was told that I was no longer a junior size so $200 more as they go by the size of the holder or I should say blade that fits on the boot that they make!

So I have a skate blade that is a about 1/4" longer and because of the toe box that is at least 1/2" - 3/4" longer, I go over the junior size, what a co-incidence, especially after they are returned indicating all the troubles and really fixing nothing.

If I could get a pair of skates that would fit properly I would not care what I paid. But, to a True skate stuffed in the  toe box and the silly thicker foot-bed seem ridiculous.

It seems like the Monkeys are running the show, not the original founder and his dedicated people for sure.

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by smu
Punctuation, left out phrases

[Vet88 674]

24 minutes ago, smu said:

I take a boot that dwarfs the True.

I think what you meant here is that you skate in a Bauer X60 that is nearly 2 sizes smaller than the skate True have supplied you with. Put side by side the True skate is nearly 1/2 an inch longer (and wider and with more volume). All in all a boot that doesn't fit you anywhere and their attempt to fix it the 2nd time round was to pad the toe caps and put in a sole filler??? wtf. Come on True, this isn't good and a True rep who reads this should be getting someone to reach out to smu and help fix this because something, somewhere has gone wrong about as bad as it can possibly get........

[z1ggy 81]

How can smu's skates be that off if he got the 3D print? I could see if you did the stencil because of user error but a 3D scan seems pretty fool proof. Now I'm questioning if I want to go through with it...

[smu 29]

On 11/7/2018 at 8:47 AM, z1ggy said:

How can smu's skates be that off if he got the 3D print? I could see if you did the stencil because of user error but a 3D scan seems pretty fool proof. Now I'm questioning if I want to go through with it...

I have no idea, but I am sure I will find out (the second time), perhaps it is just me, but why have no fix on the holders or adding 6 mm of fill to the toe just so I can barely feel it when they are first put on. Then the twice as thick red material for under the foot-bed. All this, along with the look of my heel pocket that is finger width wider on the base inside the skate when it it is known to True that I do not have a D with foot and need a narrow fit. I get something that my D with Superfeet will slightly slide from left to right when I should have a narrower foot-bed that would have the holder not move at all and actually be too large as I take a narrow skate and the Superfeet were a D width!

Edited November 8, 2018 by smu
spelling and changes + better ending

[smu 29]

10 hours ago, jared9356 said:

I’ll be going over them thoroughly. I dropped a g and I expect to get a comfortable skate. My feet are pretty standard so as long as they can address the few minuscule issues I have, I’ll be happy. So far they have been easy to communicate with and I think I’ve gotten my “vision” across to them.

Have you been dealing directly with True or your LHS?

Thanks

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Well if it makes you feel better smug ibhave had 2 customers one with one of the other 2 custom brands and one with the other. One plays extremely high end hockey and will be drafted next year in the NHL and one will be drafted in the OHL. Both top picks. And both had skates fitting in a similar fashion. The latter in the OHL was far worse than yours and caused a bone calsification in just a week and a half of wear! And those were 1500 including tax!!!

Oh and they wont remake them unless they send them back.  Kinda hard when your AAA and in your draft year. Oh and both blades were bent and one mounted all the way forward and the other all the way back.  

 

[JJP2222 1]

3 hours ago, z1ggy said:

How can smu's skates be that off if he got the 3D print? I could see if you did the stencil because of user error but a 3D scan seems pretty fool proof. Now I'm questioning if I want to go through with it...

I haven't been on here in a while but I'll add my two cents when I got my VH's (pre-True).  I have two different sized feet, by almost an inch. This is why I went the custom skate route.  My feet were 3D scanned at West Side in NYC (who are great btw), so you'd think the scan would pick up the differences. I got my skates and there was a ton of room in the skate for the smaller foot, it seemed to me that both were built off the same last.  We eventually solved it with foam, footbeds and multiple clampings but it's still not 'great' relative to the price.  If I go this route again (most likely) I'm expressly going to say that if you send me back two boots that are the same length I'm not taking delivery, I want two truly custom boots....  

[CigarScott 132]

3 hours ago, z1ggy said:

How can smu's skates be that off if he got the 3D print? I could see if you did the stencil because of user error but a 3D scan seems pretty fool proof. Now I'm questioning if I want to go through with it...

I got 3D scanned for mine and my first pair was way too small and nothing being done for my pronation after expressing countless times that I had bad pronation along with really bad hot spots in my bunions and corner of my big toes. The second pair was bigger and the holders were moved inwards so the pronation issues were corrected but I still had issues with the hot spots. Rob offered to provide a shipping label to return the skates to have them worked on or punched out but I didn't want to be without them for two weeks or more when you factor in the shipping time to and from and whatever time it takes for them to getting around to fixing them. So I borrowed a boot punch from a friend at the rink and keep playing Macgyver on them to try to fix my hot spots.

@smu - Did you contact Rob Thompson directly at True? I had to do that to cut through the red tape to get mine remade.

[smu 29]

6 hours ago, Vet88 said:

I think what you meant here is that you skate in a Bauer X60 that is nearly 2 sizes smaller than the skate True have supplied you with. Put side by side the True skate is nearly 1/2 an inch longer (and wider and with more volume). All in all a boot that doesn't fit you anywhere and their attempt to fix it the 2nd time round was to pad the toe caps and put in a sole filler??? wtf. Come on True, this isn't good and a True rep who reads this should be getting someone to reach out to smu and help fix this because something, somewhere has gone wrong about as bad as it can possibly get........

LHS agrees with the decision to send skates back a second time, making sure they listen to instructions this time.

[jared9356 39]

3 hours ago, smu said:

Have you been dealing directly with True or your LHS?

Thanks

I exchanged a couple emails with a customer service rep at True. Just added some additional notes. 

[strosedefence34 175]

Just out of curiosity (I am not trying to start a war) why are people still choosing to go with True over CCM and Bauer?  Is True's custom process/ scanning that much different than the other two?

I have a friend who had the option to go with custom True or CCM this was right before Bauer announced their custom program and he went with CCM because of all of the quality control issues with True and he is extremely happy with his CCMs.  FWIW my friend went through roughly 4 pairs of retail skates in a year nothing quite fit him perfectly he was constantly tinkering with foot booties and different things to improve the fit of his skates so it wasn't someone going with custom skates just for the hell of it he had fit issues.

[Sniper9 530]

2 hours ago, strosedefence34 said:

Just out of curiosity (I am not trying to start a war) why are people still choosing to go with True over CCM and Bauer?  Is True's custom process/ scanning that much different than the other two?

I have a friend who had the option to go with custom True or CCM this was right before Bauer announced their custom program and he went with CCM because of all of the quality control issues with True and he is extremely happy with his CCMs.  FWIW my friend went through roughly 4 pairs of retail skates in a year nothing quite fit him perfectly he was constantly tinkering with foot booties and different things to improve the fit of his skates so it wasn't someone going with custom skates just for the hell of it he had fit issues.

I think it depends what you're looking for. My experience with true has been decent. Not great but decent. I'm happy with my skates but it took me a few mths to get used to them. Mind you I only play once a week at most so the adjustment would've been sooner if I played more regularly. 

I'll admit their QC isn't the best. Which is unacceptable when you're paying top dollar. Even if it's only glue or cosmetic stuff. This isn't a deal breaker for me but I know it is for others. 

The fit for me has been good. My left skate definitely fits 100% perfect. My right is 90%. But for me I broke it down to my over pronation of my right foot. When I was scanned I positioned my right foot in a way that it cause me arch to completely collapse, therefore the scan assumed I had a flat arch. Due to this the fit on my right skate isn't as dialed in, but I don't notice it when skating, only when walking on it. I may try throwing in some SP2 insoles which may help with the arch issue since it'll mold to my actual arch. 

I think some of the issues people have fit wise may be attributed to the scans. The person doing the scans really needs to know what they are doing and the scans aren't as dummy proof as one would hope. Ccm scans seem way more fool proof as you are sitting and aren't forced to stay in a lunge position which can lead to the customer not being in their true optimal scan stance. 

For me if and when I decide to get a new pair of trues, I will definitely be cognizant of my right foot position and make sure arch isn't collapsed. 

I'll be interested to see how custom skates are like in about 3-4 years when I start thinking of getting new skates. 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Sniper9

[VegasHockey 1280]

10 hours ago, strosedefence34 said:

Just out of curiosity (I am not trying to start a war) why are people still choosing to go with True over CCM and Bauer?  Is True's custom process/ scanning that much different than the other two?

I have a friend who had the option to go with custom True or CCM this was right before Bauer announced their custom program and he went with CCM because of all of the quality control issues with True and he is extremely happy with his CCMs.  FWIW my friend went through roughly 4 pairs of retail skates in a year nothing quite fit him perfectly he was constantly tinkering with foot booties and different things to improve the fit of his skates so it wasn't someone going with custom skates just for the hell of it he had fit issues.

True still builds their skates from scratch and from the inside out. Bauer and CCM pick a last off a shelf and then customize the last. The way the skates are built is entirely different between True vs others. In fact, most True skates will last you many seasons compared to other brands which just aren't built with the same materials that would allow for such longevity. 

For example, take a look at a pair of FT1 or Vapor 1X skates after a season of playing high-level hockey and then compare them to a pair of True skates. It will be clearly evident which skates are built with more durable materials. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

11 hours ago, JJP2222 said:

I haven't been on here in a while but I'll add my two cents when I got my VH's (pre-True).  I have two different sized feet, by almost an inch. This is why I went the custom skate route.  My feet were 3D scanned at West Side in NYC (who are great btw), so you'd think the scan would pick up the differences. I got my skates and there was a ton of room in the skate for the smaller foot, it seemed to me that both were built off the same last.  We eventually solved it with foam, footbeds and multiple clampings but it's still not 'great' relative to the price.  If I go this route again (most likely) I'm expressly going to say that if you send me back two boots that are the same length I'm not taking delivery, I want two truly custom boots....  

To be honest, you should not have accepted them if they were to your liking. True will either try and fix the issue or make you a new pair of skates if they cannot correct the fit issues of the first pair. They have been very easy for us to work with. 

[gosinger 122]

It might be a kinda stupid question, but are there significant differences in construction between the VH player skates with shotblockers and the VH goalie skates other than the missing tendon guard? (obviously the goalie skates have cowlings and this leather loop in the back)

Reason for asking, I might be able to score some cheap VH goalie skates regionally and remembered that some goalies removed the tendon guard from the Mako and used them as goalie skates, so maybe it would work the other way round as-well if one adds their own tendon guard?

Edited November 8, 2018 by gosinger

[Leif 161]

5 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

True still builds their skates from scratch and from the inside out. Bauer and CCM pick a last off a shelf and then customize the last. The way the skates are built is entirely different between True vs others. In fact, most True skates will last you many seasons compared to other brands which just aren't built with the same materials that would allow for such longevity. 

For example, take a look at a pair of FT1 or Vapor 1X skates after a season of playing high-level hockey and then compare them to a pair of True skates. It will be clearly evident which skates are built with more durable materials. 

Are you sure? Bauer and CCM claim that they use 3D scans to make custom lasts for each customer. They even have videos on YouTube showing the lasts being machined on CNC mills. According to discussions on this forum True do not make a custom last, but use an existing last, chosen from a large selection, which most accurately matches the customer's feet. 

As to longevity, a friend has Easton skates made from carbon fibre which he replaced when they started cracking after 8 years of heavy use. Before that he used cheaper skates which wore out after a year or two. Can others confirm that for example Bauer 1S skates only last one high level season, whereas Trues last much longer? 

[smu 29]

18 hours ago, CigarScott said:

 

@smu - Did you contact Rob Thompson directly at True? I had to do that to cut through the red tape to get mine remade

The last time I talked to Rob I could not afford the skates yet! Then True took over and things changed. I also was waiting for a scanner to come to town when they were available in places I have never heard of before. I live in the Halifax, Nova Scotia area all within 20 miles of the birthplaces of Crosby, MacKinnon and Marchand yet we did not qualify for a scanner until late last year, go figure!

When you could talk to Rob, there were more things offered to customized tour skates than now. For pronation, you could have your holders moved medially and adding more to the medial side of the skate-bed (like a built in orthotic) as well and the stiffness alone was supposed to help those that were not too bad off. Rob even offered to send some "form boxes" to me, like the kind the podiatrists use when they take impressions of your feet for getting orthotics. The cost then was $80, but worth it if you wanted the skates perfect. . Also you could get you choice of steel, holders or just buy the boot and have the rest done at your LHS and more.

Now there seems to be no personal input from the buyer when the scanner is used, the LHS would have directed True of your specific problems and hopefully convey the proper understanding of what is needed. I am sure my LHS did give all of my information as he knew me well. But, with all this I still got someone else's skates and they were returned with another scan. The same pair of skates came back with stuffing in the toe! To my worst surprise, even if they did fit, all the issues with the rivets, crooked holders and width were not even addressed and returned as if they were new skates! 

They are going back now for a second time and asking True, to please read the instructions attached to our third scan!

 

Edited November 8, 2018 by smu
Spelling and added minor fixes

[strosedefence34 175]

16 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

I think it depends what you're looking for. My experience with true has been decent. Not great but decent. I'm happy with my skates but it took me a few mths to get used to them. Mind you I only play once a week at most so the adjustment would've been sooner if I played more regularly. 

I'll admit their QC isn't the best. Which is unacceptable when you're paying top dollar. Even if it's only glue or cosmetic stuff. This isn't a deal breaker for me but I know it is for others. 

The fit for me has been good. My left skate definitely fits 100% perfect. My right is 90%. But for me I broke it down to my over pronation of my right foot. When I was scanned I positioned my right foot in a way that it cause me arch to completely collapse, therefore the scan assumed I had a flat arch. Due to this the fit on my right skate isn't as dialed in, but I don't notice it when skating, only when walking on it. I may try throwing in some SP2 insoles which may help with the arch issue since it'll mold to my actual arch. 

I think some of the issues people have fit wise may be attributed to the scans. The person doing the scans really needs to know what they are doing and the scans aren't as dummy proof as one would hope. Ccm scans seem way more fool proof as you are sitting and aren't forced to stay in a lunge position which can lead to the customer not being in their true optimal scan stance. 

For me if and when I decide to get a new pair of trues, I will definitely be cognizant of my right foot position and make sure arch isn't collapsed. 

I'll be interested to see how custom skates are like in about 3-4 years when I start thinking of getting new skates. 

@Sniper9 I agree that the True scan seems odd.  I have seen videos of people getting scanned.  However, I don't think 3D scans are 100% foolproof.  I have done the Bauer scan and it told me I should be in 8.5 which is half a size too long.  I know JR said when he was testing the machine if you stood straight up and down it usually added a half size.  You even with not being 100% happy with your skates you would still go back?  Why?  I agree within the next few years as technology increases I think the scans will get better.

8 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

True still builds their skates from scratch and from the inside out. Bauer and CCM pick a last off a shelf and then customize the last. The way the skates are built is entirely different between True vs others. In fact, most True skates will last you many seasons compared to other brands which just aren't built with the same materials that would allow for such longevity. 

For example, take a look at a pair of FT1 or Vapor 1X skates after a season of playing high-level hockey and then compare them to a pair of True skates. It will be clearly evident which skates are built with more durable materials. 

@Nicholas G I have seen the 'demo' pair or whatever you want to call it at the local Pure I will admit they are tanks so I can see that being a benefit.  I do disagree though I have been in the same pair of Supreme 190s (MX3 season) for the last 3 years.  Up until this year, I was playing in the highest level of men's league in my area and I am a former ACHA player.  I am not going to say I am some sort of an elite skater or anything like that, but I think I skate pretty well.  I usually play 2-4 times a week and my 190s are still in great condition.  Maybe I am not as hard on my skates as others but as far as I am concerned the durability of my Bauers have met my expectations and I would say I should get at least another 3 years out of them.

Also as @Leif stated are you sure Bauer and CCM are picking as last off the shelf because they are both claiming to making the skates off of a 3D print out of your foot.  I heard it was True that was picking a last that was closest to peoples scans.  I know True has more than 3 last maybe they have 1,000 I don't know so I am not saying they are closing their eyes and just hoping for the best but it is still not built off of a 3D print out of your foot.

I know part of the issue with my original question is VH/True skates used to be the easiest way to get customs before the 3D scanning came into play.  With Bauer and CCM you needed to find a shop with a fitter that you trusted and to be honest I don't even know how the process went.  Bauer and CCM have only been building custom skates off of a 3D scan at retail for a few months so its tough to gauge them this early on all I know is what my friend has said about his custom CCMs.  I mean this thread alone has 160+ pages so there is a lot of dialogue about these skates so there is just a ton of info. 

 

Anyone else on why they decided True over Bauer or CCM?

[Leif 161]

I decided on Bauer rather than True for the rather prosaic reason that the Bauer custom shop is 25 miles away, whereas the True shop is 200 miles away, and fitting requires two journeys, one for the scan, and one for the heat moulding. I also have a very good opinion of the people at the local shop and quality of service is important when you spend that sort of money. I suspect many people in the south of England have made the same decision, certainly some friends who said they would buy True skates subsequently opted for Bauer customs after the local shop started doing them. 

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

5 hours ago, Leif said:

Are you sure? Bauer and CCM claim that they use 3D scans to make custom lasts for each customer. They even have videos on YouTube showing the lasts being machined on CNC mills. According to discussions on this forum True do not make a custom last, but use an existing last, chosen from a large selection, which most accurately matches the customer's feet. 

As to longevity, a friend has Easton skates made from carbon fibre which he replaced when they started cracking after 8 years of heavy use. Before that he used cheaper skates which wore out after a year or two. Can others confirm that for example Bauer 1S skates only last one high level season, whereas Trues last much longer? 

As a happy True skate user, I have heard this as well.  From my understanding, CCM & Bauer 3D scanned customs are generally more expensive than True, due to the fact that they build a 3D last off of the scan.  Maybe a rep for the companies on the board can chime in here?

[stick9 890]

11 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

True still builds their skates from scratch and from the inside out. Bauer and CCM pick a last off a shelf and then customize the last. The way the skates are built is entirely different between True vs others. In fact, most True skates will last you many seasons compared to other brands which just aren't built with the same materials that would allow for such longevity. 

For example, take a look at a pair of FT1 or Vapor 1X skates after a season of playing high-level hockey and then compare them to a pair of True skates. It will be clearly evident which skates are built with more durable materials. 

Meh…. I'm not buying it. A statement like that (bolded) gives one the impression that every facet of the skate is custom made to specs of each individual customer. That sort of process would take months and the cost would be astronomical. I highly doubt they operate like that.

I'm also not buying they'll last longer. There is no real way to prove that.