Ellipse Profiles – The next revolution in skate profiling?

[HockeyTactics 0]

5 hours ago, Ric_Flair said:

FWIW I love the ellipse.

true but just scrolling through the 8 pages i got the impression  that the quad seems to be more popular

[VegasHockey 1280]

36 minutes ago, HockeyTactics said:

true but just scrolling through the 8 pages i got the impression  that the quad seems to be more popular

Quad is absolutely more popular.

Out of all the profiles we do, about 600 per year, I only have one customer who has stuck with the Ellipse. All of the others changed back to a Quad, Triple or dual radii profile either immediately or soon after trying the Ellipse.

The higher the level of player, the more they disliked the Ellipse. 

[Ric_Flair 4]

27 minutes ago, PBH said:

Quad is absolutely more popular.

Out of all the profiles we do, about 600 per year, I only have one customer who has stuck with the Ellipse. All of the others changed back to a Quad, Triple or dual radii profile either immediately or soon after trying the Ellipse.

The higher the level of player, the more they disliked the Ellipse. 

Wow, interesting. I'll be this week trying a Quad XS on a 254mm holder; I'll report back then.

[Ric_Flair 4]

1 hour ago, HockeyTactics said:

true but just scrolling through the 8 pages i got the impression  that the quad seems to be more popular

Yea, but they are not you. If you can get your hands on an ellipse, give it a shot! 

[kkskate 12]

46 minutes ago, PBH said:

Quad is absolutely more popular.

Out of all the profiles we do, about 600 per year, I only have one customer who has stuck with the Ellipse. All of the others changed back to a Quad, Triple or dual radii profile either immediately or soon after trying the Ellipse.

The higher the level of player, the more they disliked the Ellipse. 

Facts are facts so I can't disagree with other findings though I've had a lot of players stick with the Ellipse.  Most players who are already happy on the Quad end up sticking with the Quad over the Ellipse.  As @PBH mentioned the higher level players love the Quad.  It seems to offer maximum quickness and agility.  On the flip side many skaters who were trying profiles for the first time preferred the Ellipse over the Quad.  It's possible the Ellipse is a slightly more balanced profile than the Quad and works better for certain players.

[Ric_Flair 4]

6 minutes ago, kkskate said:

Facts are facts so I can't disagree with other findings though I've had a lot of players stick with the Ellipse.  Most players who are already happy on the Quad end up sticking with the Quad over the Ellipse.  As @PBH mentioned the higher level players love the Quad.  It seems to offer maximum quickness and agility.  On the flip side many skaters who were trying profiles for the first time preferred the Ellipse over the Quad.  It's possible the Ellipse is a slightly more balanced profile than the Quad and works better for certain players.

Hi @kkskate. Yea, that's the boat I fall into. I've just in past few months discovered profiling (been away from the game for 15+ years) and have been doing a lot of alternating. Found the Quad great as well, though have been leaning towards the Ellipse when considering my last 6-8 hours have been on it. I will very soon have both profiles on a 254 holder, will try them often interchangeably and will certainly be sharing all my opinions here; this stuff is so much fun! 

And you folks who have more experience with them, yourself, @PBH and some others' opinions are so very much appreciated. Thanks again to you all.

[mojo122 535]

2 hours ago, PBH said:

Quad is absolutely more popular.

The higher the level of player, the more they disliked the Ellipse. 

Interesting.  Was there common consensus as to what they disliked about it?  

[VegasHockey 1280]

15 hours ago, mojo122 said:

Interesting.  Was there common consensus as to what they disliked about it?  

They felt like they lost too much agility due to surface area contact between the ice and steel.

Basically, the Ellipse felt too long. Many players commented that the Ellipse felt more similar to a Zuperior than a Quad. 

[Ric_Flair 4]

13 minutes ago, PBH said:

They felt like they lost too much agility due to surface area contact between the ice and steel.

Basically, the Ellipse felt too long. Many players commented that the Ellipse felt more similar to a Zuperior than a Quad. 

Interesting. Because Pro Sharp claims that the Power Profile (ie. Quad) has the most blade in contact with the ice at all times throughout whole stride (albeit I think that claim may have been made prior to the birth of the ellipse). I can't remember if I read it, or was on one of their YouTube vids.

[VegasHockey 1280]

21 hours ago, Ric_Flair said:

Interesting. Because Pro Sharp claims that the Power Profile (ie. Quad) has the most blade in contact with the ice at all times throughout whole stride (albeit I think that claim may have been made prior to the birth of the ellipse). I can't remember if I read it, or was on one of their YouTube vids.

Not sure how that could be the case as 10/20 or Zuperior M would have more steel in contact with the ice than a Quad 1. The "working area" of of those profiles has a longer combined average. 

[Ric_Flair 4]

12 minutes ago, PBH said:

Not sure how that could be the case as 10/20 or Zuperior M would have more steel in contact with the ice than a Quad 1. The "working area" of of those profiles has a longer combined average. 

Yes, the specs would tell us so. Maybe it was something like "optimal amount of blade in contact at all times."

Here's a quote from @kkskate webpage, maybe this is what I am remembering, tho I thought I read/heard as I stated above:

"Quad profiles are designed with four different radii's which are strategically placed on the same blade profile to provide perfect blade contact with the ice in ALL situations."

Maybe I'm confusing "perfect blade contact" with "most...."?

In any event, thanks again PBH.

[kkskate 12]

1 hour ago, Ric_Flair said:

Yes, the specs would tell us so. Maybe it was something like "optimal amount of blade in contact at all times."

Here's a quote from @kkskate webpage, maybe this is what I am remembering, tho I thought I read/heard as I stated above:

"Quad profiles are designed with four different radii's which are strategically placed on the same blade profile to provide perfect blade contact with the ice in ALL situations."

Maybe I'm confusing "perfect blade contact" with "most...."?

In any event, thanks again PBH.

Correct.  Perfect blade contact for different situations is not necessarily the most ice contact.  The shorter radius in the front of many of the profiles gives less ice contact though enables you to move much quicker.  "Perfect" is obviously very subjective and will vary based on the skaters skill, style, and size.

[Ric_Flair 4]

2 minutes ago, kkskate said:

Correct.  Perfect blade contact for different situations is not necessarily the most ice contact.  The shorter radius in the front of many of the profiles gives less ice contact though enables you to move much quicker.  "Perfect" is obviously very subjective and will vary based on the skaters skill, style, and size.

Well said @kkskate, makes "perfect" sense. Thanks for ringing in! 

Have an awesome day everyone.

[Ric_Flair 4]

Update:

Just went with the stock Power Profile on 254mm (Quad XS, 17mm PP/pitch) in my True Customs this morning for 1.5 hours. Tho I didn't feel a HUGE diff from the Ellipse 0 (on a 263mm), perhaps too early to tell(?), there was a noticeable diff, specifically with how my feet felt "lighter" when doing button-turns and coming out of all swings/crossovers in general. Even in fwd-backward transitions tho I didn't do a lot of those today.

Next mission now will be to try maybe a Ellipse XS or even XXS on a 254. Anyone care to weigh-in on what size Ellipse would be closest to the Quad XS in 'feel'?

Early assessment, comparing the two mentioned, I like the quad more; more agile and didn't feel any/(very minimal, if so) loss of straight line speed, and was compensated for with linear-crossover ease. 

I'll be back with more updates as I continue to experiment... this is so much fun!
 

[Ric_Flair 4]

On 10/28/2021 at 10:34 AM, Ric_Flair said:

Update:

Just went with the stock Power Profile on 254mm (Quad XS, 17mm PP/pitch) in my True Customs this morning for 1.5 hours. Tho I didn't feel a HUGE diff from the Ellipse 0 (on a 263mm), perhaps too early to tell(?), there was a noticeable diff, specifically with how my feet felt "lighter" when doing button-turns and coming out of all swings/crossovers in general. Even in fwd-backward transitions tho I didn't do a lot of those today.

Next mission now will be to try maybe a Ellipse XS or even XXS on a 254. Anyone care to weigh-in on what size Ellipse would be closest to the Quad XS in 'feel'?

Early assessment, comparing the two mentioned, I like the quad more; more agile and didn't feel any/(very minimal, if so) loss of straight line speed, and was compensated for with linear-crossover ease. 

I'll be back with more updates as I continue to experiment... this is so much fun!
 

@kkskate, @PBH, @Hockeydad03, @mojo122, @pgeorgan

Are most guys here suggesting at least 1 size down then in ellipse from what is 'liked' in Quad? 
Really like the stock Power Profile (254mm) Quad XS; Ellipse XXS should be a fair trial? What you guys think?

Thanks.

[hockeydad3 51]

The quad profiles are towards agility, the zuperior profiles are more towards speed and stability and the ellipse profiles are somewhere in between. Going up one size should give you more speed/stability and going down one size should give you more agilty/acceleration.

Following the recommendations from Prosharp, you can try 9 multiradiusprofiles for your runner size 😉

Edited October 31, 2021 by hockeydad3

[Ric_Flair 4]

5 minutes ago, hockeydad3 said:

The quad profiles are towards agility, the zuperior profiles are more towards speed and stability and the ellipse profiles are somewhere in between. Going up one size should give you more speed/stability and going down one size should give you more agilty/acceleration.

Following the recommendations from Prosharp, you can try 9 multiradiusprofiles for your runner size 😉

Thanks @Hockeydad03.

My question is about me going from a quad XS to a ‘what’ ellipse? 
There’s been a lot of info on here about how the ellipse relates to the quad. If I really like Quad XS, should I try to drop down a size, and try a ellipse XXS? 
thanks 

[hockeydad3 51]

If you want to try something similar to the Quad XS, go down one size for the Ellipse.

If you want to try something different, try the Ellipse XS, the Quad Zero or the Quad XXS.

Or stay with the Quad XS if you like it. 🤣🤣🤣

[mojo122 535]

3 hours ago, hockeydad3 said:

The quad profiles are towards agility, the zuperior profiles are more towards speed and stability and the ellipse profiles are somewhere in between. Going up one size should give you more speed/stability and going down one size should give you more agilty/acceleration.

Following the recommendations from Prosharp, you can try 9 multiradiusprofiles for your runner size 😉

Wonder if there's some disconnect between ProSharp US and ProSharp Sweden?  ProSharp Sweden always pitched the Quads as "power profiles" and the Zuperiors as "agility profiles.

ProSharp Profiles

[BenBreeg 493]

I think they just needed to come up with descriptors, they aren’t based on evidence.  The real disconnect is between the average player and any understanding of how the hell to choose a profile.  

[Ric_Flair 4]

5 hours ago, BenBreeg said:

I think they just needed to come up with descriptors, they aren’t based on evidence.  The real disconnect is between the average player and any understanding of how the hell to choose a profile.  

Agree. As many have sentimented here previously, the Quad sounds more like the agility profile and the Zup the "power". 

[Ric_Flair 4]

10 hours ago, hockeydad3 said:

If you want to try something similar to the Quad XS, go down one size for the Ellipse.

If you want to try something different, try the Ellipse XS, the Quad Zero or the Quad XXS.

Or stay with the Quad XS if you like it. 🤣🤣🤣

Thanks. And yes, I really like the Quad XS; just want to try its 'equivalent' in a Ellipse... XXS it will be then. 

[noupf 42]

Curious if any of the hockey shop owners here who do the pro sharp profiles can show me some pics of what the difference is in templates for the Ellipse 1 vs. Quad 1. 

I am on my first ever profiled set of blades ( 288 step steel ) and I went with the ellipse 1.  I absolutely love everything about the profile except that the front 1/3 of the blade feels "long".  Meaning, when I want to get up onto my toes to dig in, crossover and accelerate, the blade just feels a little too big in its radius ( the "long" feeling ). and I really have to concentrate or try too hard to utilize the toe for quick acceleration.

I am curious if the Quad 1 would be a better choice.  I am very very happy with the middle / rear section of the ellipse 1, as I have never felt more stable on my blades while playing, I just feel like I could use a little more of a short radius up front to maximize my first couple push offs with the toe.

I wish pro sharp had specs published about the ellipse profiles....it would make this a whole lot easier.  🙂

Edited November 24, 2021 by noupf

[Ric_Flair 4]

13 minutes ago, noupf said:

Curious if any of the hockey shop owners here who do the pro sharp profiles can show me some pics of what the difference is in templates for the Ellipse 1 vs. Quad 1. 

I am on my first ever profiled set of blades ( 288 step steel ) and I went with the ellipse 1.  I absolutely love everything about the profile except that the front 1/3 of the blade feels "long".  Meaning, when I want to get up onto my toes to dig in, crossover and accelerate, the blade just feels a little too big in its radius ( the "long" feeling ). and I really have to concentrate or try too hard to utilize the toe for quick acceleration.

I am curious if the Quad 1 would be a better choice.  I am very very happy with the middle / rear section of the ellipse 1, as I have never felt more stable on my blades while playing, I just feel like I could use a little more of a short radius up front to maximize my first couple push offs with the toe.

Sounds similar to what I experience on an ellipse, albeit its an XS (recommended for my 254 blade). Try a quad if you have chance, I love it! 

 

[noupf 42]

5 minutes ago, Ric_Flair said:

Sounds similar to what I experience on an ellipse, albeit its an XS (recommended for my 254 blade). Try a quad if you have chance, I love it! 

 

did you have the same set of steel profiled multiple times or did you get separate blade sets with only one profile on them....and then just switch them in and out to compare?