Stick flex: any downside to going lower?

[SolarWind 23]

I’m going to preface this by stating that stick flex and length are totally subjecting to personal preferences (style of play, bio mechanics etc) and any attempts to generalize based on height and weight is just a starting point for experimentation. 
with that said I’m curious if there is any way to generalize Cons of going Lower from your “recommended” flex (most commonly formula out there is half of the body weight in pounds, further adjusted lower if someone is much shorter than average for that weight) is?

Personally as I’m getting older and play less and less it’s becoming more labours to flex sticks I used to play with a decade ago. I used 87 cut down to 100 flex (as per marking on the shaft) but after trying 77 cut down to maybe 80 it feels like the shots have more velocity, but the stick itself feels a bit more like wet noodle so on hard passes I’m wishing for a more stiffer twig... 

has anyone been able to rationale all this?! Lol

[swede 49]

Back in the -90’s when i played in the swedish junior leagues (14-18yrs),  i used to play with super xxstiff wood sticks from Bauer. Back then i was the same length as now (5’11”), but weighed like 160lbs.

now i weigh around 245lbs, and use 85flex sticks cut down to the same length as with the wood sticks in the -90’s.

can’t understand how i was able to play and shoot with such stiff sticks back then. I tried shooting with one of my old sticks last winter, and it allmost ruined my left elbow 😂😂

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

Trying using a stick with a lower flex than you're used to but with a stiffer blade.  It won't completely get rid of the "wet noodle" feel, but it might help a bit.

[xstartxtodayx 343]

I agree with the above... blade construction can play a part in that feel, also there's going to be a transition period where you'll have to adjust and get used to the different feel.  When I went from 85 flex to 75 flex there was a bit of a transition but after a while I got used to it and it felt great.  

Also, I've never heard that "recommended flex" formula before, I grew up with stiff wood sticks and then even stiffer aluminum shafts, no wonder we couldn't shoot worth a damn.  It wasn't until the Z Bubble came out while I was in college that I paid attention to flex and found an 85 was better than a 100 for me.

[start_today 770]

That weight/flex “formula” has been debunked for years and years. Kessle and Ovechkin are using 80ish flexes and are 220+ and they do ok shooting the puck. 

Flex trends over the past years have to drop down in flex and let the stick do the work. Sounds like you got good results after one try. You’ll dial in the pass reception. 

[SolarWind 23]

Re the Formula: never suggested it’s the right way to go about it, but it’s been a de facto standard for many years, and still is it seems:

https://www.bauer.com/en-CA/Sticks-StickFitChart.html

https://www.purehockey.com/c/pure-hockey-stick-flex-guide

so my question was re the cons but everyone is commenting on the pros instead.

so to rephrase: what am I potentially going to miss out by dropping down in flex?

 

[Vet88 674]

Cons - the stick will load differently to what you are used to so this generally means a slight change in technique to get the most out of the lighter flex and your accuracy back ie it's more a let the stick do the work. Slapshots lose a bit of zing. Receiving hard passes requires softer hands, the stick doesn't absorb the pass as well.

[xstartxtodayx 343]

If you're a center a lesser flex is not as good on faceoffs from what I hear, a stiffer stick works better to outmuscle the opponent (I'm a D-man 99% of the time so I'm in no way an expert on faceoffs, just what I heard).  

[VegasHockey 1280]

52 minutes ago, xstartxtodayx said:

If you're a center a lesser flex is not as good on faceoffs from what I hear, a stiffer stick works better to outmuscle the opponent (I'm a D-man 99% of the time so I'm in no way an expert on faceoffs, just what I heard).  

I have a different flex stick when playing center than when I play wing. 

 

7 hours ago, Vet88 said:

Cons - the stick will load differently to what you are used to so this generally means a slight change in technique to get the most out of the lighter flex and your accuracy back ie it's more a let the stick do the work. Slapshots lose a bit of zing. Receiving hard passes requires softer hands, the stick doesn't absorb the pass as well.

With a lower flex you are able to keep your hands higher on the stick and closer together when loading. Look at how Matthews shoots for example. 

 

13 hours ago, start_today said:

That weight/flex “formula” has been debunked for years and years. Kessle and Ovechkin are using 80ish flexes and are 220+ and they do ok shooting the puck. 

Flex trends over the past years have to drop down in flex and let the stick do the work. Sounds like you got good results after one try. You’ll dial in the pass reception. 

Stores need to stop advertising those out of date recommendations. 

[krisdrum 233]

So many factors to weigh out.

I've seen a few videos with a guy who recommends 1/3 body weight, but also recommends the stick be under the chin on skates (so shorter than the generic chin to nose recommendation). 

In the Matthews video you can see he likes a shorter stick, so I assume uses a lower flex to get the action he needs/likes as cutting a higher flex stick down would make it too stiff.

I'm a small guy (5-6, 175lb) and still definitely working on my technique (I'm a beginner), but at the moment using a 60 flex that is cut down about 2 inches (so pretty close to that 1/3 recommendation).  Seriously considering picking up a 55 flex.  Took a look at some in the LHS and I could probably use uncut or maybe just take an inch or less off.  I think my shooting might be better and maybe the lesser flex would help me develop technique.

[VegasHockey 1280]

27 minutes ago, krisdrum said:

So many factors to weigh out.

I've seen a few videos with a guy who recommends 1/3 body weight, but also recommends the stick be under the chin on skates (so shorter than the generic chin to nose recommendation). 

In the Matthews video you can see he likes a shorter stick, so I assume uses a lower flex to get the action he needs/likes as cutting a higher flex stick down would make it too stiff.

I'm a small guy (5-6, 175lb) and still definitely working on my technique (I'm a beginner), but at the moment using a 60 flex that is cut down about 2 inches (so pretty close to that 1/3 recommendation).  Seriously considering picking up a 55 flex.  Took a look at some in the LHS and I could probably use uncut or maybe just take an inch or less off.  I think my shooting might be better and maybe the lesser flex would help me develop technique.

I am about 5'10" and 185lbs and toggle between 65 and 70 flex sticks. I also use a very short stick, close to laryngeal prominence (adams apple) when on skates. I have found that a stick with a mid or variable kick point seems to complement my shooting style better as opposed to a low kick stick. I think specific kick points are better suited to shorter sticks with a lower flex since hand placement changes significantly. 

[stick9 890]

As bunk as those flex guides are. It does put me in the flex I am currently using and feel the most comfortable with...

[Miller55 333]

6'1" and 190 lbs (dropped about 25 lbs this spring, feel great) and I use 77 flex cut down a couple inches, so I'm at about 82 flex. Used to use 85/90 at full length, and I also prefer shorter and whippy as it let's the shots fly pretty smooth. I don't take clappers because I'm not trying to be a beer league MVP at the expense of someone else's day job. But I agree, stiffer is better on faceoffs, and I cannot use a low kick stick that whippy or short. Also cannot use a toe curve with a high lie at that flex and height

[Sniper9 530]

2 hours ago, PBH said:

I have a different flex stick when playing center than when I play wing. 

 

With a lower flex you are able to keep your hands higher on the stick and closer together when loading. Look at how Matthews shoots for example. 

 

Stores need to stop advertising those out of date recommendations. 

Matthews stick is pretty short so he's kind of forced to have his hands closer together vs a longer stick. 

At the end of the the day stick flex is whatever you are used to. You can train yourself to adapt to use a stiffer or whippier stick. So the pros and cons are essentially not that important. I would say it's more important for a younger player to start out with a stick that can actually load properly and then it's all preference once they have built the foundations. 

[puckpilot 312]

There are people who like stiff sticks. I'm on the opposite end of that spectrum. I use extremely whippy sticks. I'm 5'5 175lbs. I use a 50 flex. At this extreme, the construction of the stick affects how much the CONS come into play. With lines like the Supreme and Tacks, they have reinforced hosles, which makes catching hard passes and taking faces offs a lot easier, because there's less give to the bottom of the stick. Opposite of that are lowkick sticks like the Ribcor or QRE. I find you need softer hands when catching passes, and depending on the other center, it can be tougher winning face offs. 

Yes, there can be a wet noodle feel to it at first, but I've gotten use to the feel--which did take time and patience--so for me, the only real consistent CON, I find is with face offs. A good face off man will just power through my stick, which is why I bring stiffer sticks to games for the tougher match ups, or else I really have to out think them. But if I'm going against a weaker face off man, the CON doesn't usually come into play.

Other than that, I've found that for just pure shot release, velocity, and accuracy, these all improved significantly the instant I went to a whippy stick for all my shots.

Just before the world ended, Martin Frk took the hardest shot ever recorded in pro hockey using a 70 flex stick in the AHL all-star game. So it doesn't appear that a lower flex will limit shot power if one's mechanics are sound. 

[flip12 714]

2 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Matthews stick is pretty short so he's kind of forced to have his hands closer together vs a longer stick. 

At the end of the the day stick flex is whatever you are used to. You can train yourself to adapt to use a stiffer or whippier stick. So the pros and cons are essentially not that important. I would say it's more important for a younger player to start out with a stick that can actually load properly and then it's all preference once they have built the foundations. 

His stick is long compared to a lot of 90’s stars, and they managed to shoot with hands closer and further apart (see Coffey, Sakic, Bure, Kovalev, and Fedorov amongst many others). There are too many variables to just look at stick length relative to height and say how one’s hands are forced to be when shooting. Matthews has a rather upright stance, for example, which probably contributes to his hand offset.

[Miller55 333]

Matthews also uses a retail p92 with a lie 6, which should allow him to actually drop his bottom hand a bit more than a lower lie...

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

I think the 1/2 your weight formula isn't bad for those who've never picked up a hockey stick before...  you need some sort of starting point.  But of course, finding optimal flex is way more nuanced than that, especially now with all the different types of sticks, release points, etc.

I grew up playing with aluminums which were like 100 flex (I didn't know any better and those aluminums sure looked nice!), and I could shoot hard, but I would have to put an insane amount of effort into the shot.  I now play with an 80 flex.  Anything whippier, catching passes is too loosey-goosey for me and I can't deal with it; just annoys me too much.  I was trying out a 70 flex for a while, and I could rip really nice wristers with minimal effort, but I hated the feel of catching a hard pass or taking a one timer, just too much flex.  So 80 is where I land for the "feel" I want.

With that said, the only time I change my flex is if I play forward (I'll drop to a 75 flex), or I'm playing against higher level players who are better with their sticks/puck battles, where I might bump my flex up to 85.  But typically, I stick with 80.

Over time you figure what works for you.  That's really the only way to do it.  And yes, you'll have to spend money on lots of sticks to try out, but then again, this is MSH, where everyone owns like 50 sticks anyway...lol.

[MyBoxersSayJoe 133]

In the '90s it was like the higher the flex, the more manly you were.  Aluminum sticks, 100 flex, etc.  Completely ignored flex in some search of ego or something.

I think stick technology has evolved so much that you can now let the sticks do the work for you.  Takes some adjustment depending on the sticks and your body type, mechanics.  Over the years I've gone from nose height on skates to chin height.  And I've dropped from 77 flex to flipping between 65 and 55 Gaudreau pro stocks.  I'm 5'7", 145 lbs.

[VegasHockey 1280]

Honestly, this is why all stores should have a shooting area for players to test sticks before buying them. We set an area up in our store and also have the CCM Stick Fitter as well. The combination of these factors helps a ton for players who have no idea what flex they should be using. 

 

[flip12 714]

16 minutes ago, PBH said:

Honestly, this is why all stores should have a shooting area for players to test sticks before buying them. We set an area up in our store and also have the CCM Stick Fitter as well. The combination of these factors helps a ton for players who have no idea what flex they should be using.

Does any shop have this set up where you can shoot with your skates on?

[VegasHockey 1280]

23 hours ago, flip12 said:

Does any shop have this set up where you can shoot with your skates on?

I looked into doing this but there was some concern about liability and such. 

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

9 minutes ago, PBH said:

I looked into doing this but there was some concern about liability and such. 

There's got to be a safe and quick way to simulate the height of skates on dry land, no?

[VegasHockey 1280]

2 minutes ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

There's got to be a safe and quick way to simulate the height of skates on dry land, no?

Yes, there is "shooting boxes" which players can stand on to put them at the same height. 

[krisdrum 233]

2 minutes ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

There's got to be a safe and quick way to simulate the height of skates on dry land, no?

I've seen video of places that has you on an elevated platform with the synthetic ice tiles on the floor.  Platform is big enough to allow most folks to get a full weight transfer and simulate the leg movement of being on ice.