Stoopid Release Cycles

[Jbear 113]

Ridiculous product release cycles. Nice to have options but wasteful to dump new products every ten minutes. Nobody needs this, but marketing talks people into buying new gear with the promise of "harder shots," "quicker release," "more agility," ad nauseum.  I like gear but it's just not responsible. 

There...now I feel better 👍🏒🇨🇦🥅🤣

[Stewie 721]

To be honest, this isn’t a manufacturer problem, but more a consumer problem. Manufacturers have to use buzz words to sell the new products, but very few consumers are happy with just using the same product year in and year out, and sales end up lagging. It’s across all industries really, hockey isnt unique here. 

[Beerleaguebumhockey 16]

Is it your money? Your time? Your company? The world changes literally daily. Can you imagine if cars were still on ten year cycles? Or medication? Or food Products? Or clothes? Or electronics? Or anything anymore? Companies can’t leave products for two or three years anymore. Consumers get bored. This is the world luckily you don’t have to participate because last years stuff is always on sale or available. It’s silly to think companies can’t release and try new products yearly. This post is old school thinking and sounds bitter for no reason other than you can’t handle change like a baby boomer. It just doesn’t affect you if you don’t want it to

Edited August 18, 2022 by Beerleaguebumhockey

[Jbear 113]

Maybe take a basic logic course cuz the ad hominem component doesn't show you in a particularly good light.  I'm not bitter, I'm making an observation.  It also sucks for any small LHS cuz they lose $ on inventory as they have to keep up with the cycle.   Also...it's hockey gear...not medical technology or transportation. And you could have made all of your points (which aren't without merit) without being  d-baggy about it.  But...I guess that's your choice. 

[Hills 712]

33 minutes ago, Jbear said:

Maybe take a basic logic course cuz the ad hominem component doesn't show you in a particularly good light.  I'm not bitter, I'm making an observation.  It also sucks for any small LHS cuz they lose $ on inventory as they have to keep up with the cycle.   Also...it's hockey gear...not medical technology or transportation. And you could have made all of your points (which aren't without merit) without being  d-baggy about it.  But...I guess that's your choice. 

From what I heard from shops, they actually like the yearly releases more than the 2 year cycles as it means they have less of the inventory of the old models so they don't have to clear them out. They also don't have to book as much product from the get go since it doesn't need to last a 2 year cycle.

I hate the yearly releases as I don't think there are big enough improvements year over year to actually make significant updates and you end up with gear that was changed just for the sake of it. But I totally understand why they do it and why stores like the yearly cycles.

[nutters 218]

I have to say I like what CCM is doing with their stick releases. Roll out a full line of sticks at every price point then only Elite level the following line. People who are willing to pay $350+ (or $250+ on sale) usually play high level hockey and have greater stick turnover. Opposed to people who buy entry or mid level who hand on to sticks longer.

[Jbear 113]

My guys don't, but they are the only ones local, so admittedly...that's not representative. 

Definitely agree on the "improvements" reality.  Every once in a while...something awesome happens. More often the changes seem trivial in practice. And yes, I'm gear ho, so...I'm being a bit hypocritical. But it's because I try so much of it that have made this observation. 

[BenBreeg 493]

Mmm, as a product manager I have a hard time criticizing because I have no data that the hockey companies have.  I also get sick of people with the tired "marketing" attack.  It's marketing's job to try and present any given product in a certain light, period.  You can't say it doesn't work.  All I hear are people insisting that stiffer boots are better, arguing the minutiae of stick feel when 99% have hands like me, bricks, that .0007 oz heavier shin guards are antiquated.  I would say in a lot of sports, with the way people are into gear, it's the people are driving things. 

[Jbear 113]

There's definitely a consumer-producer relationship.  And I understand that it's some people's jobs to convince people that they need things...whether they do or not.  The consumer has responsibility too for sure.  But just because it works...don't make a good thing though.  It's just my opinion. As a player, and a coach, and a consumer for a long time...I believe I'm qualified to have one...as are you.

[stick9 890]

If you aren't releasing new products at a regular cadence you risk becoming irrelevant. Just ask Graf.

[218hockey 50]

6 hours ago, Beerleaguebumhockey said:

 Can you imagine if cars were still on ten year cycles? Or medication? Or food Products? Or clothes? Or electronics? Or anything anymore? Companies can’t leave products for two or three years anymore. Consumers get bored.

That would be great. It's a lot of change just for changes sake. Stupid really.

[Beerleaguebumhockey 16]

19 minutes ago, 218hockey said:

That would be great. It's a lot of change just for changes sake. Stupid really.

Human progress would come to a complete standstill by you do you 

[krisdrum 233]

The singularity.  Look it up.  Everything is accelerating.  There will be lulls in there, but overall everything is exponentially increasing.  Maybe right now hockey has optimized performance in the materials available.  Maybe it hasn't.  Sometimes a breakthrough doesn't feel like one until you look back at it in history.   

[Jbear 113]

Boys...chill...it's not an all or nothing scenario. You can still progress in medical technology, transportation, agriculture, etc. and not release a new hockey stick every ten minutes (that's hyperbole lest anyone be tempted get there breeders in a wad).  And true...we may look back in history someday and realize how the CCM Trigger 45 and Bauer HyperQuadraMicro-Lite (coming June 2024) brought peace, harmony, and a foolproof COVID vaccine to the world.  But...also...maybe not. 

And can we maybe discuss it without calling each other names?  Hockey players are already different animals so...we could be the first people who do that.

[Beerleaguebumhockey 16]

7 hours ago, Jbear said:

Maybe take a basic logic course cuz the ad hominem component doesn't show you in a particularly good light.  I'm not bitter, I'm making an observation.  It also sucks for any small LHS cuz they lose $ on inventory as they have to keep up with the cycle.   Also...it's hockey gear...not medical technology or transportation. And you could have made all of your points (which aren't without merit) without being  d-baggy about it.  But...I guess that's your choice. 

These posts are tiresome and all over hockey forums Reddit etc. the world changes. It’s weird that people are so upset about it, but yes I was douchey apologize for that my bad should have worded it better. I should have made it for more constructive. I will say I really enjoy the releases because in the end they make it for consumers that like the latest and greatest and sometimes it’s junk and went no where.

but I still buy it because It’s aimed at me. But others like you don’t and it’s fine. But they won’t stop doing it that’s for sure !

Edited August 18, 2022 by Beerleaguebumhockey

[Jbear 113]

I appreciate your response and for the record...I  also try just about everything that comes out...as you do.  I play in two leagues (at a high level) and coach, so I'm on ice just about 7 days a week.   With two artificial hips, I need to rotate skates with different flex profiles to avoid overuse injuries.  I use a lot of different gear out of necessity (at least some of it).

I'm not whining about this though (maybe it sounded that way).  I'm just saying...it's not necessarily a good idea...holistically. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Jbear

[VegasHockey 1280]

12 hours ago, Hills said:

From what I heard from shops, they actually like the yearly releases more than the 2 year cycles as it means they have less of the inventory of the old models so they don't have to clear them out. They also don't have to book as much product from the get go since it doesn't need to last a 2 year cycle. 

I hate the yearly releases as I don't think there are big enough improvements year over year to actually make significant updates and you end up with gear that was changed just for the sake of it. But I totally understand why they do it and why stores like the yearly cycles.

Most stores actually lose money on the CCM aggressive release cycle as compared to Bauer and TRUE.

For example, I have 275 Trigger 6 / Trigger 6 Pro sticks in stock. They all just went on sale for 20% discount because the Trigger 7 /Trigger 7 Pro is releasing. Thats a significant loss in profit. 

 

[Beerleaguebumhockey 16]

14 hours ago, Jbear said:

I appreciate your response and for the record...I  also try just about everything that comes out...as you do.  I play in two leagues (at a high level) and coach, so I'm on ice just about 7 days a week.   With two artificial hips, I need to rotate skates with different flex profiles to avoid overuse injuries.  I use a lot of different gear out of necessity (at least some of it).

I'm not whining about this though (maybe it sounded that way).  I'm just saying...it's not necessarily a good idea...holistically. 

Guess the challenge will always be these companies have mandates from the top for development, and throw in long manufacturing lead times and maybe they are ahead of the game sometimes. I’ll give you one, the trigger 7 showed up in stores but was supposed to be November. The trigger 6 was just released.

 

[Cavs019 708]

The issue is that it’s really hard in any industry to conjure up significant innovation on a yearly release cycle (it’s really more like 10 months when you factor in holidays, shipping lead time, et al). Most of the improvements are incremental to non existent at best and of course there are the anecdotes of NHL players like P. Kane using a 13 year old O33 Total One build muddying the waters further. That said - I do like what Bauer is doing in releasing stuff like the Sling, ADVs, etc in parallel to their standard lines, or the ODIN project from a few years back (as cheesy as some of those releases and concepts might be). The “think big” type work that looks 3-5-7 years out in conjunction with the annual releases to please the masses (and slowly integrating some of that future tech into the main lines) seems to be a logical approach to me. 

All that said - the biggest improvement in stick tech by far in the last few years has been the recoil on lower flex sticks (in my case a senior 70). They used to just lag and fold on me like a pool noodle up until around the Trigger 2 vintage when shooting or battling for loose pucks - but now they recoil and kick like a performance hunting bow which has led to real improvements in quick release power and velocity.  @stick9 @psulion22 have had similar experiences and maybe want to chime in. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Cavs019

[Hills 712]

8 hours ago, PBH said:

Most stores actually lose money on the CCM aggressive release cycle as compared to Bauer and TRUE.

For example, I have 275 Trigger 6 / Trigger 6 Pro sticks in stock. They all just went on sale for 20% discount because the Trigger 7 /Trigger 7 Pro is releasing. Thats a significant loss in profit. 

 

Perhaps you are doing something different than the stores that have been talking to me. None of them have the inventory to actually put on sale.

[VegasHockey 1280]

22 minutes ago, Hills said:

Perhaps you are doing something different than the stores that have been talking to me. None of them have the inventory to actually put on sale.

Do you live in Canada? How many AA/AAA or higher level programs do you have within a 50 miles radius that operate constantly, 365 days? How many rinks are within 50 miles? How many registered players do you have within 50 miles? 

Hockey equipment sales cycles in the US are significantly different than Canada. 

 

[stick9 890]

1 hour ago, Cavs019 said:

The issue is that it’s really hard in any industry to conjure up significant innovation on a yearly release cycle (it’s really more like 10 months when you factor in holidays, shipping lead time, et al). Most of the improvements are incremental to non existent at best and of course there are the anecdotes of NHL players like P. Kane using a 13 year old O33 Total One build muddying the waters further. That said - I do like what Bauer is doing in releasing stuff like the Sling, ADVs, etc in parallel to their standard lines, or the ODIN project from a few years back (as cheesy as some of those releases and concepts might be). The “think big” type work that looks 3-5-7 years out in conjunction with the annual releases to please the masses (and slowly integrating some of that future tech into the main lines) seems to be a logical approach to me. 

All that said - the biggest improvement in stick tech by far in the last few years has been the recoil on lower flex sticks (in my case a senior 70). They used to just lag and fold on me like a pool noodle up until around the Trigger 2 vintage when shooting or battling for loose pucks - but now they recoil and kick like a performance hunting bow which has led to real improvements in quick release power and velocity.  @stick9 @psulion22 have had similar experiences and maybe want to chime in. 

Yup yup. 67 flex intermediate sticks were way too flexy and never felt right. 75 flex seniors stick felt way too stiff after cutting. Being able to get a senior in a 70 flex was perfect. Switching to the proper flex and a pattern that better suited my playing style and ability was one of the better things I have done. 

51 minutes ago, PBH said:

Do you live in Canada? How many AA/AAA or higher level programs do you have within a 50 miles radius that operate constantly, 365 days? How many rinks are within 50 miles? How many registered players do you have within 50 miles? 

Hockey equipment sales cycles in the US are significantly different than Canada. 

 

I would say, certain parts of the US. The stick market in the north east is brutal right now. Right now, I couldn't walk into a shop and buy a stick. I tried online and there is nothing available in my specs. Luckily I picked up a second FT3 when they went on clearance. 

In all honesty, a two year lifecycle is a little short....three seems about right to me. If you can plan it right you can release a new twig every year, 

[VegasHockey 1280]

16 minutes ago, stick9 said:

I would say, certain parts of the US. The stick market in the north east is brutal right now. Right now, I couldn't walk into a shop and buy a stick. I tried online and there is nothing available in my specs. Luckily I picked up a second FT3 when they went on clearance. 

In all honesty, a two year lifecycle is a little short....three seems about right to me. If you can plan it right you can release a new twig every year, 

Thats wild. I have about 2600 sticks in stock right now! Those must be smaller stores?

[caveman27 208]

10 hours ago, PBH said:

Most stores actually lose money on the CCM aggressive release cycle as compared to Bauer and TRUE.

For example, I have 275 Trigger 6 / Trigger 6 Pro sticks in stock. They all just went on sale for 20% discount because the Trigger 7 /Trigger 7 Pro is releasing. Thats a significant loss in profit. 

How do you guesstimate the demand for left hand sticks versus right hand sticks of the same model? Or is that a secret you keep?

I've noticed the larger the store, there's almost an equal number of left and right hand sticks. And the smaller the store, there are more right hand sticks than left hand sticks. And with goalie sticks, I see way more left sticks than right sticks almost all of the time as there are more right-handed people.

Edited August 19, 2022 by caveman27

[noupf 42]

19 minutes ago, caveman27 said:

How do you guesstimate the demand for left hand sticks versus right hand sticks of the same model? Or is that a secret you keep?

I've noticed the larger the store, there's almost an equal number of left and right hand sticks and the smaller the store, There are more right hand sticks than left hand sticks. And with goalie sticks, I see way more left sticks than right sticks almost all of the time as there are more right-handed people.

To my understanding, ( I used to work for a sporting goods company that sold entry level and the lower end models of hockey equipment ), the percentage of left vs right is now like 60/40 with left being the more dominant stick usage now.  Curious what PBH sees though.

Edited August 19, 2022 by noupf