Winter Classic 5

[burrn 0]

Leaves a blatantly obvious question that no one at head quarters prepared for: Who plays in 2012? They won't have the foresight to showcase talents in the year and a half, so they'll probably just put Ovechkin right back in it for some name recognition and a high profile player.

That's a really good point. I'm sure it will draw good ratings, but Pens-Caps should be the "finale"(if you know what I mean). It's just as though they've confirmed that next year's WC won't be as good, for the random viewer that is.

And as for the caps jersey, I'd rather see them in the old red/white/blue ones, although I know they aren't the "coolest" jerseys around.

[Trooper 8]

Take a deep breath and look at it from a business standpoint (that's all hockey is, not a sport with some intrinsic value). They are not marketing Crosby or AO, they are using them to market the game. They are far and away (nobody else is even close) the biggest brands the NHL has. Second, you think they are going to pander to "real hockey fans" who already watch? People criticize Bettman and in the same breath suggest he do something that makes no economic sense. The NHL should absolutely pander to people who know nothing about hockey, to do otherwise is to admit defeat. There are lots of other good players, but they aren't stars like AO and Crosby.

[IniNew 51]

If you're going to watch the game because of Crosby or Ovechkin, you're not going to lose many viewers if you don't have both Crosby and Ovechkin. The league is missing a great opportunity to expand then faces of the NHL outside of those two teams. I believe Chad touched on it earlier, if the league does nothing but push Crosby VS Ovechkin nationally, that's the only games the average joe is going to watch. Not good for the league in a long-term aspect.

[raganblink 82]

Take a deep breath and look at it from a business standpoint (that's all hockey is, not a sport with some intrinsic value). They are not marketing Crosby or AO, they are using them to market the game. They are far and away (nobody else is even close) the biggest brands the NHL has. Second, you think they are going to pander to "real hockey fans" who already watch? People criticize Bettman and in the same breath suggest he do something that makes no economic sense. The NHL should absolutely pander to people who know nothing about hockey, to do otherwise is to admit defeat. There are lots of other good players, but they aren't stars like AO and Crosby.

+1 on the money.

I'm sure there are quite a few real hockey fans (everyone on this board) who are sick of ovi and crosby being advertised. Fact is you can go to someone in America and ask who they are, and you'll get a correct answer (a hockey player at least). Whereas if you ask who is Staal, Kopitar, Backstrom, Pronger, etc, and unless they are hockey people, or live in the same town as that player, they wont know who you are talking about.

This event is still vulenerable to failure. Sadly it could still fail if they get careless in who they put in the game. Once the NHL can get away from the gemmic of the event, and not have to have a big draw (either event location or players) then we'll be stuck to have this game played in big market cities, or have big name players staring, or have the game played in a historic place.

We've had Pitt VS Buffalo, the big draw, Crosby. Chicago VS Detroit, the big draw, Defending Stanley Cup champs , Chicago big market, and Wrigley. Philly VS Boston, the big draw, Fenway. Pitt VS Wash, the big draw, Ovi, Crosby, Ovi VS Crosby, and the "rivarly" between the two teams.

Here are the american teams that could host the classic that havent: Colorado, Minnesota, Detroit, Columbus, Philly, NYR, NYI, NJ, Washington.

LA, Anaheim, SJ, could host a game in Seattle.

Of these teams, the only teams that are in a big market city or have the star power to host it, or have some sort of attraction to host it are: Detroit at Ann Arbor or at Tigers Field, Columbus at Ohio State (unlikely), Philly hosting in Philly or Penn State, NYR at Yankees, Washington at home. Colorado can't right now because no star power and no attraction, Minnesota couldn't until this season because of no outdoor arena locally and while a big market, no star power, and LA/Anaheim/SJ *could* host it or atleast play in it, however, since they have been doing home and homes with this event, they would have to adjust the schedule for two different conference teams to play each other twice, or simply just get rid of that silly home and home standard they have had in place.

The teams (US) that have not been mentioned that can play in this game due to their star power: None. Currently the only teams that can host are Colorado, Minnesota, Chicago, Detroit, Columbus, Philly, Pitt, Buffalo, NYR, NYI, NJ, Boston, Washington (all in home city or region). Anaheim, SJ, LA can host due to star power or big market capabilities in Seattle. These are the only teams that really can play in the game and draw a crowd (on TV, which this is really all about).

That leaves generouslly 8 Western teams, and 8 Eastern teams, however realistically, there are only 4 Western teams that can host, while there are 8 Eastern that can. This means we are probably going to see either a 3 to 2 or possibly even 2 to 1 hosting by the East. What would be nice to have happen is if we can get to the point where its an all day event. Have eastern team play game at noon eastern, have a western/central game starting at 4 eastern. Have outdoor hockey 12-7.

And as for the Heritage Classic, I sincerly hope this works. As it is a shame canadian cities probably wont ever host a classic anytime soon. There are 3 eastern and 3 western canadian teams, ideally it would be awesome if they alternated cities throughout conferences and cities so each canadian city hosts once every 6 years. And each canadian city will play on the road in 1 game every 6 years.

Anyways I know I feel your pain, I'm sick of crosby and ovi, but realize that while we might feel this thing is solid and we don't need to have them everywhere we see hockey, especially this event, it is still capable of folding if we have Colorado play LA, then Islanders VS Rangers, or whatever. Saying this, I would like to see East VS west in this event and would love to see non-rivalry games being played, instead of this pitt/wash, chi/detroit shit. Like Anaheim VS NYR or something. You don't need to be isolated within a tight region to have a rivalry with someone. You have rivalries ofcourse with your closest geographic neighbors, however, the best rivalries sometimes come from playoff or just epic games between clubs. NHL needs to follow in the NBA standard, and have every one play each other, and only have 4 divisional games instead of the 6 we have now. Every team should host every other team atleast once during the season. No reason it takes every 3 years for Crosby to visit Western Canada.

[Quintin 16]

I'd rather take Habs vs Leafs plus Oilers vs Flames over that ANYDAY

[hockeyfreak7 0]

+1 on the money.

I'm sure there are quite a few real hockey fans (everyone on this board) who are sick of ovi and crosby being advertised. Fact is you can go to someone in America and ask who they are, and you'll get a correct answer (a hockey player at least). Whereas if you ask who is Staal, Kopitar, Backstrom, Pronger, etc, and unless they are hockey people, or live in the same town as that player, they wont know who you are talking about.

Thats exactly the thing though. They know who Ovechkin is, so they WILL watch the game. Then why not market a Staal or a Kopitar or a Parise against him? If one of those guys could have a big game against Ovechkin and the Caps, then that's a lot of new fans for a NEW market. Maybe they dont get the same ratings for the single game, but over time, the league gains fans, and NBC gets better numbers from the new fans of New Jersey or Los Angeles or Carolina.

The Caps and Pens are not gaining any more fans. The bandwagon is full. No more room. You get nothing out of additional marketing of these two teams. But advertise the New Jersey wagon. Or the Los Angeles wagon. Get them more fans and youll get even more money.

[raganblink 82]

I agree on that. They should market LA/Anaheim and their stars and Parise with the Devils with crosby/ovi.

Irregardless, I hope the Steelers suck this year so the ice isn't crappy. I get why they do it in football stadiums, for more $$, but if that will mean there is the possibility that the ice sucks, its not worth it imo.

[Speedz98 15]

People who don't follow hockey might know who Crosby/Ovechkin are because of how much they are shoved down their throats. Promote another star with that much tenacity and I'm sure there would be similar results.

Why not promote some of the greater american players in the USA? I'm sure there would be much more affinity for them.

[Fire0nIce228 1]

Steelers last reg season home game this season is December 23rd. They're final game of the season (Jan 2nd) is an away game so that gives the NHL some time to leave the ice surface up and I'm sure there will be lots of local Pittsburgh stuff going on.

As a Pens fan I'm of course really excited but I also understand what is being said about marketing the other players and the bandwagon being full for these two teams. However, if I think from a casual perspective, if I'm not a big hockey fan and I hear a hockey team from Tampa Bay or California is playing in an outdoor hockey game I may just assume the worst because of the area they come from, IDK, maybe thats some type of reasoning. Really though I would think the main decision is all about sponsorship/TV dollars for the game and I am willing to bet that this WC will have the highest ratings out of all of them thus far.

For whomever asked about tickets, WC tickets last year in Philly were going on ebay anywhere from 600-1300 when I had checked so I'm planning on saving around 1000 for my ticket.

I also think the Pens won't be in another one for 10 years or so, they'll probably get Sid in 1 more before his retirement. Pens/Flyers in Beaver stadium would be nice.

At any rate the countdown is on, January 1 cant come soon enough!

[IniNew 51]

Hell, as long as Ovechkin is in it you can still advertise with both Crosby and Ovi. "Crosby had his chance to shine, will Ovi compare?" There, and you still get a new team in there.

[Ewhitz94 0]

Should be intresting for Ovi haha. Pretty sick for the Pens that allready did it having the chance to go at it again

[Trooper 8]

Guys, the game is a novelty. It will do nothing to spark long-term growth for hockey. Considering how many games are played, do you really think one game is going to be the turning point? Revenues are up under Bettman, yet people keep slamming him. He is the CEO of the league for all intents and purposes, and he is doing his job.

[17D1998 1]

Thats exactly the thing though. They know who Ovechkin is, so they WILL watch the game. Then why not market a Staal or a Kopitar or a Parise against him? If one of those guys could have a big game against Ovechkin and the Caps, then that's a lot of new fans for a NEW market. Maybe they dont get the same ratings for the single game, but over time, the league gains fans, and NBC gets better numbers from the new fans of New Jersey or Los Angeles or Carolina.

The Caps and Pens are not gaining any more fans. The bandwagon is full. No more room. You get nothing out of additional marketing of these two teams. But advertise the New Jersey wagon. Or the Los Angeles wagon. Get them more fans and youll get even more money.

Hilarious, sorry I just had to quote it.

[MLSman 22]

Thats exactly the thing though. They know who Ovechkin is, so they WILL watch the game. Then why not market a Staal or a Kopitar or a Parise against him? If one of those guys could have a big game against Ovechkin and the Caps, then that's a lot of new fans for a NEW market. Maybe they dont get the same ratings for the single game, but over time, the league gains fans, and NBC gets better numbers from the new fans of New Jersey or Los Angeles or Carolina.

The Caps and Pens are not gaining any more fans. The bandwagon is full. No more room. You get nothing out of additional marketing of these two teams. But advertise the New Jersey wagon. Or the Los Angeles wagon. Get them more fans and youll get even more money.

I tend to agree with your logic completely...but not the choice of specific teams. New Jersey? Please. They can't sell out the Rock during a playoff game. I would put all 29 NHL teams before NJ for a winter classic. That said, I agree with LA....and other teams with young stars that are going to build the future for the NHL. As much as this game is a novelty, you still have to balance the die-hard hockey fan with trying to entice a newer fan base. Teams like the Blues, the Kings...hell even the Coyotes...would add to the luster. Want to make things real interesting? Have a winter classic in Winnipeg with the Coyotes as one of the teams. That would create a fun buzz amongst hockey enthusiasts and highlight the young talent in our great game.

[Speedz98 15]

I tend to agree with your logic completely...but not the choice of specific teams. New Jersey? Please. They can't sell out the Rock during a playoff game. I would put all 29 NHL teams before NJ for a winter classic. That said, I agree with LA....and other teams with young stars that are going to build the future for the NHL. As much as this game is a novelty, you still have to balance the die-hard hockey fan with trying to entice a newer fan base. Teams like the Blues, the Kings...hell even the Coyotes...would add to the luster. Want to make things real interesting? Have a winter classic in Winnipeg with the Coyotes as one of the teams. That would create a fun buzz amongst hockey enthusiasts and highlight the young talent in our great game.

Devils sold out during teh playoffs.

They had some more consecutive sell outs as the playoffs were coming closer. They were really rollin in terms of attendance. Most sell outs this year for that arena.

[Trooper 8]

As much as this game is a novelty, you still have to balance the die-hard hockey fan with trying to entice a newer fan base.

Why? You want ratings, period. Regular fans are going to watch any teams, the rest who will really drive ratings will only watch people they know. Ratings for this game may play a SMALL part in influencing TV deals, but not much. That's about all you'll get out of this. If NBC doesn't see $$$ coming out of this, they won't support it. NBC doesn't see its job as helping the NHL market itself, they simply want revenue. AO and Crosby revenue is greater than anyone else. If Chicago wins the Cup, you'll have a couple other guys you can start building on.

But take a great player like Iginla, how many non-hockey fan TV sets would tune in to see him? Very, very, very few. This isn't baseball where A-Rod was a big deal even though he never led his teams to a World Series championship.

[MLSman 22]

Devils sold out during teh playoffs.

They had some more consecutive sell outs as the playoffs were coming closer. They were really rollin in terms of attendance. Most sell outs this year for that arena.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_dadd...?urn=nhl,158865

It's all lies. The fact is that the visual evidence for playoff games has been telling. Two teams in particular: the Devils and the Bruins. As a center ice subscriber for three years, I watch a TON of hockey and pay close attention to the true "draw"...the visual evidence of attendance...not the announced attendance. The fact is that these two teams were the most surprising with the lack of true attendance. Hell....as a season ticket holder for the Caps, I attend 10-20 regular season games a year....and at least 5-10 games a year at road games. I can honestly say I have seen much better regular season game attendance than both of these teams in the playoffs.

Why? You want ratings, period. Regular fans are going to watch any teams, the rest who will really drive ratings will only watch people they know.

But take a great player like Iginla, how many non-hockey fan TV sets would tune in to see him? Very, very, very few.

Agreed...completely...but the longevity of the classic will not be driven by ratings. If die hard fans get sick of this game, the NHL will toss it regardless of TV ratings. Revenue and image is the goal of the business of the NHL.

This isn't baseball where A-Rod was a big deal even though he never led his teams to a World Series championship.

Sorry I am a Yankee fan....that isn't the case anymore :)

[sher-awesomeness 0]

Devils sold out during teh playoffs.

Yeah, and it was mostly Flyers fans. :lol:

Seriously, there were so many of them you could hear the "BOOOOOOOOSH" chants on TV.

[EBondo 232]

So sick of Crosby being plastered on my tv. There's a lot of other great players that I'd like to see more of.

Anyone else realize in the opening intro introducing the NHL on NBC, the little five second intro thing they do, they show not one, not two, but FOUR highlights of Crosby....?

[Balzinsker 0]

Anyone else realize in the opening intro introducing the NHL on NBC, the little five second intro thing they do, they show not one, not two, but FOUR highlights of Crosby....?

They believe that the Penguins are the most popular team in the league and they're going to give it to fans whether they like it or not. What else would you expect from them when their crowning accomplishment is Notre Dame Football on NBC.

[hockeyfreak7 0]

I tend to agree with your logic completely...but not the choice of specific teams. New Jersey? Please. They can't sell out the Rock during a playoff game. I would put all 29 NHL teams before NJ for a winter classic. That said, I agree with LA....and other teams with young stars that are going to build the future for the NHL. As much as this game is a novelty, you still have to balance the die-hard hockey fan with trying to entice a newer fan base. Teams like the Blues, the Kings...hell even the Coyotes...would add to the luster. Want to make things real interesting? Have a winter classic in Winnipeg with the Coyotes as one of the teams. That would create a fun buzz amongst hockey enthusiasts and highlight the young talent in our great game.

Fair enough. I dont pretend to know how die hard New Jersey's fans are. I just picked New Jersey as a prime candidate because they have the star factor (Parise), the proximity to DC and the location to host the event.

That being said, this is mainly an event that is meant to create fans for the NHL. This isnt a show for the existing fans that will support the team through and through. So maybe getting New Jersey some added marketing might spark some interest in the team. I'm no expert on the matter, just my thoughts.

But I will agree, the same can be said for any team, not just the Devils. It's a showcase for the NHL's very best. And everyone (except Bettman) knows there are talented players in the league not named Ovechkin or Crosby.

[Chadd 916]

The biggest issue with picking NJ is their playing style. They should be featuring teams that play an uptempo style, like we saw from Chicago and Philly in the game last night.

[camhockey16 5]

im hoping that now that lemaire is gone they might actually play a different style - but i probably shouldn't get my hopes up since lou lamoriello is still running the show..

[Trooper 8]

Sorry I am a Yankee fan....that isn't the case anymore :)

Yeah, but it's not A-Rod's team, it's Jeter's team.

They believe that the Penguins are the most popular team in the league and they're going to give it to fans whether they like it or not. What else would you expect from them when their crowning accomplishment is Notre Dame Football on NBC.

Well, the Pens have 3 of the top 10 jerseys sales in Crosby, Malkin, and Fleury as of Feb, so they have a pretty solid case that the Pens are popular. Rating for Notre Dame are pretty high. Television companies have a very easy time of it when it comes to market feedback, it's not hard for them to collect vast amounts of data on their programming. I'll take their decisions over the musings of a message board any day.

[jrhky36 1]

wtf. giving it to pit again(wings are a bigger draw than pit). i thought every team was going to get a chance before a team could return. and bettmen is going to kill this great game by having 2 in one year.