Boston Bruins: 2011-2012

[pizzakid13 5]

lets not fool ourselves here either. thomas is an admitted huge fan of glenn beck (the x-zookeeper) and had this championship taken place 3+ years ago, you can bet he would've gone to see his boy bush and had no problem with the explosion of the federal government during his regime but for which he now suddenly has a problem with. in my opinion, he probably is completely uninformed living in the beck bubble and used this opportunity to make a statement. but; he has that right so who cares anyway. dude is a great goalie.

[chippa13 1844]

Thomas didn't refuse to engage the other side. It isn't like he backed out of a televised debate at the last minute. He simply declined a meet and greet with a tour of the White House.

[Chadd 916]

Thomas didn't refuse to engage the other side. It isn't like he backed out of a televised debate at the last minute. He simply declined a meet and greet with a tour of the White House.

He did release a rather "expressive" statement in conjunction with skipping the photo op.

[chippa13 1844]

It isn't like the media would have been happy if he had just said "personal reasons".

At least his reason was better than this.

http://www.aolnews.com/2008/03/01/manny-ramirez-was-meditating-while-rest-of-red-sox-visited-white/

[Jason Harris 31]

Jason, the main thing I've been trying to make clear is that I don't think it's up to you whether his decision was "wrong". I react this way because you state your opinion on this as an absolute, rather than as your opinion.

I understand that's been your point, Wrangler, but I haven't agreed with it. I do believe the right and wrong under these circumstances is absolute, because I agree with those who have suggested his issues with the "government" wouldn't have existed three years ago. Along with someone else who posted earlier, I also had little respect for the accomplishments of the Bush/Cheney administration, but I would have readily accepted the invitation with my teammates. And I would have readily shaken his hand and engaged in conversation, including expressing my own opinions if appropriate.

Done. No controversy. And my respect for the greatness of our political system would still have been intact, even if my disappointment in my fellow voters would have remained.

What bothers me most about this whole incident is that I think it is a both a symptom and a cause for what is wrong with politics and social discourse in general today. Thomas has said that his absence what not meant to be partisan, but rather a statement about government in general. But based on his previous statements, I think it is pretty clear that he has a real abiding disagreement with the current administration. And, his absence has largely been interpreted as a reflection of his opposition to the policies of the current administration. Assuming that is true, here is my problem: He's simply refusing to engage with the other side of the argument, even in a setting that will be purely social and ceremonial. This was to be a celebration of the Bruins--indeed president Obama's public statements lavished great praise on not only the team, but Thomas himself. And Tim refused to show up. A big step toward improving civil discourse and politics would occur if everyone, and especially public figures, would simply engage personally with their opponents. Go meet them and look them in the eye. Talk with them. You might see that they don't have horns, aren't motivated by evil, and maybe really are attempting to improve the US and their kids' (and your kids') future. By hiding off in his cocoon, I think Thomas not only did a disservice to himself and his team, but also set a bad precedent for those who look up to him. The best way to improve this country is to hear out your supporters and your critics and to exchange ideas in a respectful and civil way. I think a lot of hyperbole, disinformation, and emotion would be wiped away if politicians, commentators, and other public figures simply made a point of meeting the objects of their daily derision. Thomas turned away from his political bogeyman and, unfortunately, a lot of people were watching or are now reading about it.

Excellent post.

[mug25 2]

Yeah, don't let actual facts get in the way of your Rangers colored glasses. ;) Wasn't Sean Avery an agitator, just like Marchand?

Don't worry, I'll be at all three of their remaining games.

I am likely the biggest Avery hater EVER. He should never be permitted to wear a Rangers jersey again.

[chippa13 1844]

I understand that's been your point, Wrangler, but I haven't agreed with it. I do believe the right and wrong under these circumstances is absolute, because I agree with those who have suggested his issues with the "government" wouldn't have existed three years ago. Along with someone else who posted earlier, I also had little respect for the accomplishments of the Bush/Cheney administration, but I would have readily accepted the invitation with my teammates. And I would have readily shaken his hand and engaged in conversation, including expressing my own opinions if appropriate.

Done. No controversy. And my respect for the greatness of our political system would still have been intact, even if my disappointment in my fellow voters would have remained.

Excellent post.

I have to disagree. I don't believe that declining the invitation is wrong as an absolute. Do I think he missed out on something? Yes. Do I think he committed a "wrong"? No.

One thing I am finding interesting about this topic, other athletes over the years have declined the invitation but I don't recall any being as villified as Thomas. I wonder if his political leanings are influencing people's feelings on it.

[Joshison 1]

Chippa its because liberal Massachusetts blew this up, they didn't go nuts when Epstein declined to meet Bush.

[bagsbie 8]

The Bs look more tired every game. Can the All-Star break give them the needed rest?

[chippa13 1844]

I hope so. They're making a lot of mental mistakes right now.

Sidenote: Can Corvo ever get a shot through to the net without it being head high? The forwards must hate when he shoots.

[Jason Harris 31]

I have to disagree. I don't believe that declining the invitation is wrong as an absolute. Do I think he missed out on something? Yes. Do I think he committed a "wrong"? No.

One thing I am finding interesting about this topic, other athletes over the years have declined the invitation but I don't recall any being as villified as Thomas. I wonder if his political leanings are influencing people's feelings on it.

Yes, I admit that I don't consider it an absolute. But I consider it thisclose to an absolute, and thus a "wrong."

Ironically, I'd have no problem if the tradition of the President making an awkward phone call or invite to the White House went away, but until it does, I believe players need to subside their political statements and show respect to the pinnacle of our political system, as well as to their teammates who showed that respect.

Regarding the backlash, could you even name who's declined the invitation besides the black sprinters from the 1968 Olympics? I wasn't even six then, but I recall hearing about those two, so it's fair to say they must have created quite a commotion. Other than that, who else has skipped out? If we don't know, I'd say it's because there haven't been too many, or they didn't come from our back yard, or they must not have been MVP's from their teams and were able to sneak under the radar.

Are Thomas' political leanings influencing people's feelings on it? The only person we know for certain is they're influencing his feelings on it. But wouldn't a more understandable reason to decline have been a conscientious objector to war? Although it's certainly possible an athlete had declined under such reasons, I don't recall any. Yes, I remember Manny, but that was more Manny Being Lazy than Manny protesting. (And one of the reasons Manny was considered a bad teammate.) So let's be honest. Given how "engaged" Fox News' anchorpeople can be, which do you think would be the bigger outcry? Thomas skipping out on Obama or Brady skipping out on Bush? Sure, the popularity of football would have had something to do with it, but Brady skipping out on Bush would have been 10 times the outcry. And I would have been just as outspoken that he should have gone.

******************************************

Back to the topic on hand, the B's that is, I think the All-Star game is coming at the perfect time. It will cause all the noise from this distraction to calm down, as well as allow most of the players a five day break. They've been looking more like the team from October versus November's and December's version.

[chippa13 1844]

Let's be honest, an athlete skipping out on Bush would ONLY have been an outrage on Fox News. An athlete skipping out on Obama is an outrage for the rest of the media world. As for Manny, he wasn't considered a bad teammate for skipping the White House visit, he was a bad teammate for not running out ground balls and the like.

James Harrison skipped both of the recent Steelers visits in 2006 and 2009. Scott Janssen of the 1985 Chicago Bears declined when Obama had them in. Mark Chmura skipped out on his invitation to meet Clinton. Theo Epstein skipped both of the Red Sox invitations to the White House in 2004 and 2007. I'm sure there are others, as well.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Dan Hampton skipped for the '85 Bears.

James Harrison skipped both of the recent Steelers visits in 2006 and 2009. Scott Janssen of the 1985 Chicago Bears declined when Obama had them in. Mark Chmura skipped out on his invitation to meet Clinton. Theo Epstein skipped both of the Red Sox invitations to the White House in 2004 and 2007. I'm sure there are others, as well.

[chippa13 1844]

Oops, I transposed in my head the author of the article and the player's name. That takes some doing to get it that wrong.

[goblue9280 33]

James Harrison absolutely did recieve a lot of scrutiny for his decision to skip the white house visit a few years ago. But in his case it was non-political... he skipped it out of this weird deduction that since the president would have invited the other team if they had won, the whole white house visit was meaningless. So most ended up dismissing it as the guy just having a few screws loose... which was already apparent from his on-field and off-field behavior.

[chippa13 1844]

As long as Chara made Seguin wait for the ASG draft, I was starting to think they were going to make him the dead last pick and then Chara was going to trade to get Seguin on his team. I think that would have been great stuff.

[goblue9280 33]

Love the draft, the best thing they've done to the all-star game since... well maybe forever. I wonder if Chara felt pressured to select Thomas 2nd (goalie isn't that important in all-star games) after Alfredsson made it clear he was going to pick his teammates first. While I prefer seeing them draft based on best available... I recognize it's fun to seem them do it the school yard way by picking their buddies first, especially for the host city.

[Jason Harris 31]

I was glad to see TImmy's performance at the All Star Game. He seemed to be in full F.U. mode, which bodes well for the second half.

[Law Goalie 147]

This could be a very Canadian opinion, but I find Tim Thomas on the ice a thousand times more interesting than off it.

Sidenote: Can Corvo ever get a shot through to the net without it being head high? The forwards must hate when he shoots.

That seems to be a recent thing. He was a great shooter in LA and in Ottawa; he might have just started believing he's got to beat 6'4" butterfly goalies over the shoulders rather than just getting it through. It'd be interesting to see if his mechanics have changed, because I seem to recall him using a *really* short follow-through.

[Jason Harris 31]

I can live with today's loss, because the effort was there all game, but too many of the recent games were sleepwalking.

[chippa13 1844]

I'll have to say it was there most of the game. They were getting abused to start the third and nobody wanted to play defense on the winning goal. That said, a couple of rebounds don't bounce over sticks and we're looking at a win.

[Jason Harris 31]

A few weeks ago, I was reading about the B's possibly being interested in Tim Gleason of the Hurricanes, since he is considered a defensive defenseman and his contract was expiring. Carolina has subsequently re-signed Gleason, but it got me thinking about who would the B's replace if they got Gleason (or someone like that), since I don't think he'd be a depth move. My first thought is Corvo, since he's been a bit like Kaberle and hasn't been able to bring the same offense he had elsewhere to the B's, but the other person I thought of is Boychuk, since I believe he'll be unrestricted and he's the biggest pincher among the D's!

The second goal last night occurred because he unsuccessfully committed at the blue line to stop the rush, and since he had stopped moving his feet, he wasn't able to get back into the play. I've noticed he does that a lot.

[chippa13 1844]

I wasn't bothered by the pinch so much as nobody picking up Pominville in the slot. The B's strategy of small gaps between the forwards and defense allows the D to be aggressive at the Bruins line because there will be support from the forward coming back as long as the D forces the opposing forward to the outside.

[Jason Harris 31]

I wouldn't mind as much either, Chippa, but I've noticed that he's almost always the one who over pinches. Maybe this is because he knows Chara generally is covering for him, but it struck me the moment he pinched last night, then three seconds later they scored.

[chippa13 1844]

He seems to fancy himself as a bit of a big hitter these days. The problem is he misses an awful lot. I've been down on his overall game this season. Too many giveaways and poached passes on the breakout and his shot doesn't seem to get through very often.

Sidenote: I think the B's really need to add another talented forward. Caron and Hamill just aren't doing it for me when they get called on to fill in for injuries and the B's need to protect themselves in case Horton takes another shot to the melon. They have the cap space, now they just need to find the trade partner.