Sparx Skate Sharpener - At home sharpener

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Actually more of a copy of a cag and prosharp skatepal. Not different at all. Very close to a Skatepal so I'm wondering if there will be patent issues. I beleive these guys visited my store a coulple of years ago, saying they were college students doing an engineering project. Then they wanted to come back and have me show them every detail of the CAG and prosharps that I have. I didn't have the time.

One caution to those with dreams of making side cash sharpening friends and teammates, be sure you get the appropriate business licences, town, state and federal, and also pay proper federal and state taxes on your 'profits".

While doing the same business as NO-Icing in Canada I have come to realize you just can not worry about people that have their own machines. They aren't going to pay tax and nobody is going to do a thing about it here. There has been a recent law not being enforced in the GTA that will now be enforced in the upcoming season. That being no personal skate sharpeners in The City of Toronto Arenas. And some of the private facility's have banned people using them as well. Even Jr Teams.

But if you're sharpening is that good people will take the time or find an alternative way to get to you. I personally until this weekend was on the same thoughts as jimmy but now I couldn't be bothered as I am to busy, to be worrying about others. This machine looks pretty decent. My issue would simply be you need a new wheel every 40 pairs? So if you're doing more than your family skates then it is not much different than going to a Pro Shop. And what happens when you have deep knicks? Again you will need a Pro Shop. So while this may do for the average family with 2-4 players in the household more or less it just ends up you will have to go to your regular less often but still go.

And when little johnny or susy says I like X-s sharpening better??? But there is a spot for this machine at this price for a small family in the middle of no where.

Nothing beats a quality sharpening with a qualified sharpener.

That being said a better machine as I said above could even me on a busy day so I would rather work with the company then against it.

Good Luck Russ.

[jimmy 194]

While doing the same business as NO-Icing in Canada I have come to realize you just can not worry about people that have their own machines. They aren't going to pay tax and nobody is going to do a thing about it here. There has been a recent law not being enforced in the GTA that will now be enforced in the upcoming season. That being no personal skate sharpeners in The City of Toronto Arenas. And some of the private facility's have banned people using them as well. Even Jr Teams.

But if you're sharpening is that good people will take the time or find an alternative way to get to you. I personally until this weekend was on the same thoughts as jimmy but now I couldn't be bothered as I am to busy, to be worrying about others. This machine looks pretty decent. My issue would simply be you need a new wheel every 40 pairs? So if you're doing more than your family skates then it is not much different than going to a Pro Shop. And what happens when you have deep knicks? Again you will need a Pro Shop. So while this may do for the average family with 2-4 players in the household more or less it just ends up you will have to go to your regular less often but still go.

And when little johnny or susy says I like X-s sharpening better??? But there is a spot for this machine at this price for a small family in the middle of no where.

Nothing beats a quality sharpening with a qualified sharpener.

That being said a better machine as I said above could even me on a busy day so I would rather work with the company then against it.

Good Luck Russ.

While doing the same business as NO-Icing in Canada I have come to realize you just can not worry about people that have their own machines. They aren't going to pay tax and nobody is going to do a thing about it here. There has been a recent law not being enforced in the GTA that will now be enforced in the upcoming season. That being no personal skate sharpeners in The City of Toronto Arenas. And some of the private facility's have banned people using them as well. Even Jr Teams.

But if you're sharpening is that good people will take the time or find an alternative way to get to you. I personally until this weekend was on the same thoughts as jimmy but now I couldn't be bothered as I am to busy, to be worrying about others. This machine looks pretty decent. My issue would simply be you need a new wheel every 40 pairs? So if you're doing more than your family skates then it is not much different than going to a Pro Shop. And what happens when you have deep knicks? Again you will need a Pro Shop. So while this may do for the average family with 2-4 players in the household more or less it just ends up you will have to go to your regular less often but still go.

And when little johnny or susy says I like X-s sharpening better??? But there is a spot for this machine at this price for a small family in the middle of no where.

Nothing beats a quality sharpening with a qualified sharpener.

That being said a better machine as I said above could even me on a busy day so I would rather work with the company then against it.

Good Luck Russ.

I have no problem with home sharpeners, I do with tax evasion and would report one who is not doing so to the IRS in a heartbeat. I pay 30 plus percent of each sharpening $$$ to the irs and also some to the state, I expect others to follow the rules. If one wants to do friends for free, that's great but once you start charging or accept $$ for "supplies", you are then a business.

I have no problem with home sharpeners, I do with tax evasion and would report one who is not doing so to the IRS in a heartbeat. I pay 30 plus percent of each sharpening $$$ to the irs and also some to the state, I expect others to follow the rules. If one wants to do friends for free, that's great but once you start charging or accept $$ for "supplies", you are then a business.

[stick9 888]

A bit extreme, don't ya think. It's not like you're sending your kids to Harvard off locker room sharpenings.

[MN old and slow 92]

Wow is this politics vs equipment.

Me, card carrying conservative. Taxes are too high driving the barter economy. Just bartered a skate sharpening this past weekend. Are you going to turn us in or launch an investigation in to greater mpls skate sharpening industry?

I even heard some free tape was handed out for recommending a certain store! Those $ must be on the books. The shame of it all.

Checked out the sparxx at lets play hockey show. You are right it appears similar to some other machines. In fact there was a similar machine in another booth. Personally I like a pro at LHS looking at my blades whether I pay him or her in cash or in some other manner.

[Stewie 721]

I have no problem with home sharpeners, I do with tax evasion and would report one who is not doing so to the IRS in a heartbeat. I pay 30 plus percent of each sharpening $$$ to the irs and also some to the state, I expect others to follow the rules. If one wants to do friends for free, that's great but once you start charging or accept $$ for "supplies", you are then a business.

I have no problem with home sharpeners, I do with tax evasion and would report one who is not doing so to the IRS in a heartbeat. I pay 30 plus percent of each sharpening $$$ to the irs and also some to the state, I expect others to follow the rules. If one wants to do friends for free, that's great but once you start charging or accept $$ for "supplies", you are then a business.

you should give that speech at lemonade stands. I don't think you're understanding the goal of this product. I don't think you're gonna buy one of these so that you can start your own sharpening shops, the product seems mostly geared at being a consumer in house product, busy family of 4 etc.

There are definite ways it differs from skatepal that I can see from just looking at it/watching a short video on its operation. I think a huge advantage it has is that its fully enclosed, a busy family with perhaps some younger, inquisitive children would appreciate that. It also looks less bulky, more like it belongs in a living space, vs belonging in a garage. Im not a sharpener, but it seems a lot easier to deal with as well. If it were up to me, as a consumer, I would purchase the Sparx, given that they both work well and give good edges.

All this said, I like having someone sharpen my skates, theres just something about plopping them on the counter that I actually think is an enjoyable experience. As old trainer mentioned, there are things a person can do that this machine cannot. Around me, its not easy to get a good sharpening unless I drive 30 minutes to a Total hockey, or a few other shops. Total makes 0 dollars per sharpening each time I go in the store (but plenty more in other purchases ;) Maybe ill purchase one of these in the winter as a backup plan, as in my world these can both have a place. Plus I need additional retirement funds.

Russ: I noticed in the video there are two different backlights. is red for when its in operation, and green when it is finished and skates can be removed? hope you are able to make it to SJ, would love to see it in action!!!!!!

[IPv6Freely 2092]

For me I'm looking at it as though it will do my weekly sharpening so I always have a fresh edge, but also understand that doesn't mean I won't likely have to take it to a shop if I get any deeper nicks in the blade, etc.

As a really poor analogy, it's like buying a vacuum for your house to do the weekly cleaning, but hiring somebody to come in with a steam cleaner when necessary.

I've already backed it. If it works well, then great. If it sucks, then it sucks. Wouldn't be the first crappy Kickstarter project I've backed. But, it's worth a shot and I'm happy to support a friend.

Edited March 8, 2015 by OptimusReim

[Zylos45 118]

For me....since most of my days are spent shuttling my three kids (9/5/3) around the metrowest area...it is the ability to stick their skates on the machine and give them a quick buzz that has me excited. Hard to drive 35 minutes up to zwickers or an hour up to Bob at NoIcing when you have little free time and all you need is a quick sharpening.

Truth be told...The thought of running an illegal skate sharpening ring is very enticing....I can be the Walter White of Skate Sharpening and start a show called "Breaking Blades"

[goblue9280 33]

Thought I would throw my 2 cents in as this machine was made for me. I have two (soon to be three) kids playing hockey in a non-traditional market (Houston.) I use to have two options in town for getting their skates sharpened... #1 our home rink (at your own risk) or #2 had a friend with a wissota. Unfortunately two things happened this past offseason, my friend's kids now skate on a different team and our local rink closed in October. We then had to make the hour trek across town multiple times per week for my kids to play hockey. The new rink we were skating out of does not have a sharpener (have no idea why.) Taking their skates to one of the other rinks (again an hour or so away from where we live) is troublesome as they generally want you to leave your skates there and make you feel like garbage if you beg them to do them while you wait. I'm not picky... I'll wait up to an hour for them to get sharpened... still, they make you feel like you are asking the world of them. I also try to get my kids skates sharpened whenever we have a travel weekend in Dallas... but that usually means having to wait until after the first game to have them sharpened.

I've looked into buying a X01 or wissota, but something always seems to come up to prevent me from putting down the $1000 plus. In addition there's learning to use the darn thing, and then finding the time to sharpen. Between running my kids across Houston multiple times per week, and the volunteer hours I put in for the org, it's hard for me to envision having the time to become proficient at and regularly sharpening the kids skates. This machine (if reliable) would be a godsend. Never having to worry about my kids having proper edges, and stressing over where to get them done. I'm sure I'll still get them done by a traditional sharpener when we are in Dallas 6-7 times a season (not to mention any profiling that may need to be done) but this machine would be perfect for the weeks in between. Plus, I'm sure my wife could use this thing with minimal effort... another plus for when I'm stuck at work. Like I said, this thing is made for me... so I put down my $550, and hope to have one sometime next season.

As for doing others skates... I'm sure I will... and yeah, I'll either charge a small amount for supplies or trade for rides for my kids. My kids often get rides with teammates and I will either take their kids sometime or give them some gas money... when I give gas money, I never worry about the parents having a taxi license.

[Zylos45 118]

You will all be happy to know that my backing pushed the total over the $60K needed

You can send your thank you's to

(redacted)

Edited March 9, 2015 by Gummer12
plz don't post emails

[chippa13 1844]

For me....since most of my days are spent shuttling my three kids (9/5/3) around the metrowest area...it is the ability to stick their skates on the machine and give them a quick buzz that has me excited. Hard to drive 35 minutes up to zwickers or an hour up to Bob at NoIcing when you have little free time and all you need is a quick sharpening.

Truth be told...The thought of running an illegal skate sharpening ring is very enticing....I can be the Walter White of Skate Sharpening and start a show called "Breaking Blades"

Come on, you know you'd rather be the Whitey Bulger of sharpenings.

[ZamboniFever 32]

Hello MSH’ers,

We, the Sparx Hockey Team, just got back from MN and the Lets Play Hockey Expo. Minnesota certainly deserves their “The State of Hockey” title. 21,609 in attendance for a High School hockey game – truly unbelievable! We were blown away by the hospitality and kindness received from the Minnesotans we spoke with on our trip.

I wanted to reiterate our company’s mission. We are hockey players and parents, just like goblue9280 (we couldn’t have said it better ourselves), looking for ways to save our precious free time and also give ourselves and our players improved gear to enable us to perform better on the ice.

A huge thanks to Zylos45 for pushing us over the Kickstarter goal!

Here are answers to some of the questions raised in the previous posts:

shoeshine boy asked about the finishing pass – our system has a consistent pressure between the Grinding Ring (what we call the grinding wheel) and the skate blade. We set this pressure at a level such that each pass has consistent material removal and the surface finish is always at the quality level of a finishing pass. We found this was the best solution as it keeps every pass consistent at every point on the blade. This also guarantees that the blade material stays cool (doesn’t alter the microstructure of the steel as temperature is kept low) during the sharpening.

Mojo122 asked about the Sparx machine being engineered to prevent a blade from being banana’d over time. The consistent pressure described above also ensures the profile (rocker) is also never modified by our system.

Benson asked about the ROH and how it works over the life of the wheel. Our Grinding Ring is a steel alloy that is precision CNC turned to be exactly the ROH that is specified. The Grinding Ring is then plated with an abrasive (a synthetic diamond-like material called cubic boron nitride). The abrasive is what contacts the skate blade and also protects the precision machined steel substrate from being altered during sharpening. Since the abrasive is a coating on the ring, there is no dressing of the grinding surface and the ROH put on the blade is exact at every point on the blade and every skate that is sharpened. This consistency is a major advantage of using the abrasive plating. Traditional sharpening machines are only as precise as the person who is operating them.

Mojo122 commented on the flat bottom version of the ROH. We are looking into this and will likely make flat bottom versions of our ROH cuts. Just as a bit of history on the patents here, Redmond et al has a patent on the flat bottom geometry that expired approximately 15 years ago http://www.google.com/patents/US4392658

mc88 asked about dual radius – Sparx will sharpen any rocker and not alter its shape. We currently have 19 different ROH Grinding Rings planned from 3/8” to 1.5” at 1/16” increments. If anyone skates on something else please let us know (besides the flat bottoms as discussed above). Is anyone out there on a flat cut?

mc88 mentioned Sharks Ice. I know it well. I lived in the Bay Area for 8 years and spent hundreds of hours at Sharks Ice when I played for Stanford University. Valco was another place I played at for years and I never had any luck finding sharpening nearby. Don’t be surprised if Sparx Hockey winds up having a Bay Area satellite office in a couple years ;)

TBR asked for a video with the machine in action. There are a number of Instagram and vine videos circulating around now. Burrs are still removed manually. Grinding Rings cannot be redressed and replacements are available from us online when they wear out. Cost for the wheel and other details available on the Kickstarter page (see the FAQ section).

Iceman8310 asked about cagone. The Sparx machine is the result of years of research and development. We looked at what works well in existing products and what needed to be improved upon. The customers will judge for themselves, but I’d encourage you to check out our Kickstarter page to see the testimonials from some pretty sophisticated users who have gotten a chance to try Sparx out for themselves. We have tested our machine with hundreds of people and many of our investors are former collegiate and pro players that would not have backed us without believing we could provide pro quality sharpenings.

Stewie mentioned that he saw some ways that our machine is different than others. You are correct Stewie. Without spilling all of the beans, our product has a few major differences. The first is the Grinding Ring design. One of our most significant observations when researching and prototyping was that the smaller we made the grinding wheel, the more true it ran and the better the surface finish was on the skate blade. There is some science behind this (rotational inertia) that I’ll skip, but we have by far the smallest grinding wheel of any sharpener. We also use a spindle construction which is similar to the way a precision CNC machine is built. Our grinding ring is mounted on a shaft which is supported by a separate bearing stack (a “spindle”) and not directly on the motor arbor. This insures that the Sparx Grinding Ring’s accuracy is defined by our spindle components and not the tolerances of the motor and its internal bearings, etc. Another major difference is our skate clamp. Our skate clamp (patent pending) is a self-centering design. There are some neat innovations in our design which ensure that all of the slop needed for the clamp to move is taken out of the clamp mechanism when it tightens up against a blade. Another major difference is the integrated dust handling system. We saw, time and again, that people purchased home sharpeners for thousands of dollars and then used them without purchasing the dust handling equipment needed for safe operation. Sparx has an integrated dust handling system complete with a HEPA filter at the exhaust. This allows the system to operate in any room of the house without blowing skate steel dust everywhere (we also eliminated the grinding wheel dust as our wheel doesn’t get dressed). Another major difference are the safety covers over the skate entry slot. These insure that foreign objects can’t touch any moving parts while the system is running. There is also a limit switch on the door to ensure it stays closed and the motors have current monitors on them to detect and stop the machine if a stall condition is sensed during operation. All of these differences (and more) were designed into Sparx to make sure that our machine operates safely and with consistent performance.

Please let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks to all of the MSH’ers for their support.

Cheers,
Russ

[mc88 160]

I'm sold. Pledged. Can't wait to use it!

[TBR 11]

Thanks for the reply, Russ.

I couldn't find any videos of the machine where you can actually hear it in action. Maybe when you get a chance you can post a link to one... I'd really like to hear how quiet it is and how level the edges are after each sharpening.

Any information on how the machine handles rusty blades? Does it shorten the life of the rings significantly, or is it simply not advised to sharpen rusty blades at all?

Do you have any concerns about the burrs having to be removed manually?

Thanks again.

[ID Rollerpop 4]

Russn have you tested it with CCM Rocket Runners.

[AfftonDad 88]

If you are only charging to defray costs of equipment/supplies (i.e. not turning a profit), the IRS most likely considers it a hobby... http://www.irs.gov/uac/Is-Your-Hobby-a-For-Profit-Endeavor%3F

Edited March 10, 2015 by AfftonDad

[SCBlueLiner 19]

Can't believe I missed this when I was in St. Paul this weekend. This looks like a fantastic product at a reasonable price. It also looks like it could be a very portable product (only 33 lbs) that could be taken on road trips and used at the hotel during a tournament weekend. Any thought to designing a protective carrying case for that purpose?

I read the kickstarter page but did not see when this product is projected to be available for retail sale. Very tempted to get into it early but am a little worried about that. The grinding wheels are proprietary, if for any reason the company does not get off the ground I would be stuck with a very expensive, and very high tech, boat anchor. The cautious side of me says to wait until the product is available for retail sale and is a little more established. I really think you have a winner on your hands though. The part in the video where you plop your skates on the counter to get them sharpened, yeah, I hate the hassle of getting everyone in the familiy's skates sharpened.

[goblue9280 33]

If you look at the kickstarter page, pledging $299 or more and you can select a Sparx Carrying Case as a reward.

"SPARX CARRYING CASE A ruggedized travel case to protect your investment. High-quality, impact resistant, polypropylene exterior."

Any thought to designing a protective carrying case for that purpose?

[SCBlueLiner 19]

Must have missed that. Thanks for pointing it out.

[shoeshine boy 242]

so the travel case is half the price of the machine itself?

[SCBlueLiner 19]

Just watched the video again and I noticed something was missing...sparks. When it shows the machine in action there are no sparks kicked off from the grinding of the wheel on the blade. Is that due to a lower velocity wheel spinning against the blade?

[joepaw 0]

It would be nice to see how even the edges are after you take it out of the machine. Maybe use an HDI skate gauge to show the even edges and the depth of the hollow.

[jdksaves 56]

I stopped by the booth on Friday and I think this is an item for a lot of the parents out there that don't have the time to waste bringing skates to a shop or to learn how to sharpen. I know I asked a lot of questions, but they were all answered very well. From bent blades, to shavings getting in any of the housings and mechanical areas, to how to adjust the wheels to be centered. I think there is a market for this product and can be a great asset for a lot of Families, will I purchase one probably not as I sharpen my own skates and enjoy doing it, but if it ever came to be that I didn't enjoy or didn't have the option of sharpening any longer this would be a purchase for me.

[flip12 712]

If you are only charging to defray costs of equipment/supplies (i.e. not turning a profit), the IRS most likely considers it a hobby... http://www.irs.gov/uac/Is-Your-Hobby-a-For-Profit-Endeavor%3F

Similar here in Denmark. If you don't clear 50,000 dkk (around $7K) of revenue within a window of a year or something, you're defined as a hobby business in which case you're excluded from VAT payments as well as claims, i.e., you can't deduct costs for running your hobby business.

I see on the Kickstarter page it says "Line Voltage 100-240 AC," so these are compatible with European voltage?

Edited March 11, 2015 by flip12

[goblue9280 33]

The owner answered a question about grinding wheel cost on kickstarter, thought others might be interested:

"Randy & Kade - The grinding rings will cost $49.99 - So, $1 per sharpening on the default setting of 3 cycles per skate (6 passes) and $1.66 if you needed 5 cycles (10 passes) with every sharpening. 3 is typically right unless there is damage to the blade. In many cases it might take just a cycle or 2 to get the edge you need."

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Actually your first 40 sharpenings on the original wheel (If you are doing the 6 passes) would cost you 14.97 not including tax and shipping of the machine. So probably more towards $16 per sharpening. After that you would then go down to the $1.66 and better to air on the side of caution and say that its a $1.75 with hydro and so on. And while the original 40 would be very expensive the savings down the road would be a decent amount. IMO you still need a good pro shop to get you set up to start for sure though even if you had one of these. And most likely a couple visits to fix the odd thing here or there. I can't see someone buying this for doing any more than their own skates at home.