VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

Cue the chorus of sycophants....

[Vet88 674]

7 hours ago, Leif said:

In the case of my skates there is severe wear on the tongue in the corresponding locations, indicating that the tongue is the cause of the worn lining. 

Skates aren't designed to wear like that. You should be asking yourself why this is happening because it is an indication that the skates are not fitting you correctly or you have foot related issues (pronation, alignment, heel twist etc) that is causing the tongue to rub against the boot. 

[Sniper9 529]

1 hour ago, smu said:

 

Read on!  The first pair of Skates I received had insoles or foot-beds reading #7. With the second pair with and nothing changed except for some stuffing inside the toe box the foot-bed reads #6. Is this just a coincidence? "If the shoe fits, wear it" I am sure there will be a good explanation about this.

1) When my first pair of skates were ordered specific Instructions were given about what was needed to fit my small narrow foot, in particular my narrow heel area and that skates in the LHS were tried on and True was told that my Bauer size 5 D skates fit well, but were too wide and I needed a skate for a narrow foot, thus the reason for getting Trues as well as for pronation issue. I even tried on a 4.5 Tack on and that fit except it was a D width and was too wide in the heel area as well.

Just from this description alone a better pair of skates could have been made without a scan! My toe came nowhere near the toe cap and I could not feel anything and after lacing up they just felt huge. I guessed, by pulling my toe up that I was just about one inch from the end of the toe box! Plus, the holders and rivets were crooked as well and both blades had a bend in them from the misaligned holders. Why should this be even happening!?

To understand how long these skates were I have photos with two fingers touching the end of the heel bottom with two fingers and my foot in the skate, also I could slip the skates of and on and still have the laces through all the eyelets. Try that one and see where it gets you! I have photos of my Bauer siting beside the True skate and it would blow your mind away! I had heel wedges in my Bauer skates that were 2" wide exactly and I used these to off-set pronation as they had a 1º slope from one side to the other. My heel area in the True skates were over 3/8" wider and I am being kind. We asked for a narrow heel area! Even my Superfeet could be slid from side to side showing how wide these skates were to mine. I felt that the skate were closer to a 7 than anything else and that was my guess until the next sentence.

The foot-beds that came with the Trues were there, but it was not until I got home did I realize the number 7 was on the bottom, what else could that mean other than a size 7 skate. More on this in the part where I receive the second skate

These are sent back stating the issues and I had said to my LHS I don't want skates that are too long for me, I want as short as possible and I certainly don't want stuffing in the toe to make me feel like they fit. As I have said they could have made a better pair by just what they were told about my old Bauer's that were perfect fit, but too wide!

2) Second Pair and I cringe!

I get my second pair of skates and I can see immediately that they are the EXACT same skates! The same look and feel with the holders still bent along with the blades, but I tried them on for the sake of the LHS. Right away I could feel something in the toe area, but not much, but it did feel a little better as I could feel my toes just about touching something. As soon as soon as I started to lace my heel was pulled back immediately and the toe feel was gone in a split second, but this did not lock the heel in. It was sloppy and walking around they still felt very large and for some reason the left felt larger. The skate must have had something added to it, but what I was not sure we did not go further with it. It was my thoughts they were going back regardless because they still were not my size etc. This time, along with the with the LHS I looked at the bottom of the insole and now it says size 6 was this just coincidence? True says they do not go by foot size. 

Added - I forgot to say that I had no idea or proof that something was added to the toe until I got home and was playing with the tongue that can be removed with the Velcro and then noticed that I could feel a piece of tape. hanging. It was lose so I pulled at it and out came two spongy rubber pieces about two inches long by an inch wide and held there with masking tape of all things. I have a photo of these with a ruler beside them. If a fix was going to be made I would make it much, much better than this, it is as bad as the crooked holders!

True now tells you that the size you pay for is the determined by the size of the holder that gets mounted on your boot. It is funny, but I usually get the Junior discount for having a small foot. With this True boot, with an extra long toe and larger and huge holder (I am told), takes a skate blade 8 mm longer than my Bauer blade. They now can say that it is a Senior skate. If the skates had of been my size and everything was OK I would not have minded paying a Senior price knowing I would rid myself of my pronation issue, but not now! My skate should have been shorter without an extra length of toe to accommodate a senior blade and as you can see I feel that they just screwed up completely.

To sell an unfit skate is negligence and could have consequences if I had hurt myself on the ice by all these errors. I did get on the ice with them and they were too long and difficult to skate in, being too big and with the blades being warped, but I just took it real careful and then left the ice. I could hear the blades make a funny sound when stopping indicating they were warped or bent! This was confirmed by using a straight edge.

I have been told directly from a person at True that holders are put on by hand as in "custom made" and not an assembly line. How do holders get on crooked with rivets crooked as well if a real person was doing his or her job correctly or are some done on an assembly line?

Now going back a third time is a real downer, I have literally lost 12 games that I could have really enjoyed if the first pair of skates were properly made. I am frightened now just to see a third pair and wonder if it is going to fit right.

You've posted this so many times already. But yet to post any pics. 

[Leif 161]

27 minutes ago, Vet88 said:

Skates aren't designed to wear like that. You should be asking yourself why this is happening because it is an indication that the skates are not fitting you correctly or you have foot related issues (pronation, alignment, heel twist etc) that is causing the tongue to rub against the boot. 

When my ankle flexes forwards, as during a stride, the tongue will brush the skate. This is nothing to do with foot issues. The skates fit correctly. Why do high end Bauer skates have wear pads near the top eyelets? 

[Vet88 674]

4 minutes ago, Leif said:

Why do high end Bauer skates have wear pads near the top eyelets? 

Because shin pads don't come in 1/2 sizes and a lot of players prefer to wear them under the tongue. When the shin pad is just a fraction too long the bottom edge of the shin pad rubs against the inner lining around the top eyelet. And this came from our authorized Bauer agent after he had come back from a visit to the Bauer center in Europe and he was explaining why Bauer had done it. But maybe you drop the top 3 eyelets which allows you the extra flex forward in the boot then it is possible for the tongue to brush the lining but if you lace all the way up then it should not be happening. But if you think your tongue should be naturally moving back and forward in the skate then so be it.

[Sk8Stk 39]

1 hour ago, Vet88 said:

Another very experienced True fitter has already indicated in this thread how he has received skates from True that had a similar story to smu. Saying it never happens doesn't make it so. Now if there was some visibility of True reaching out to the LHS to understand what went wrong and why and feeding this back into the fitment process to improve things then that in itself would be good customer feedback. But saying that you get sent skates that other fitting centers can't get right isn't a great overall look for the process, whilst it may be good for your business how can a member of the public have a high degree of trust in other fitting centers?

The “never” in my comment was referring to 6 layers of foam coming in a skate, not that I am receiving skates that others are not. While it is not common, I have also received skates with similar issues. Normally, when a remade pair is done the problems are solved. Once they are not, that raises questions about the associate fitting the skate. Anyone with experience is going to be better equipped to solve problems than someone who has only been fitting custom skates for a short period of time, I don’t think that is a radical comment to make. I do not know any secrets, I am just diligent in my work and obtain as much information as possible from the customer. For Fit centers that do not do that, problems will most likely arise. Like any other skate on the market, there should be a competent boot fitter at the helm of orders. That goes for all brands. Not denying issues happen, that is why True offers a massive 6 month warranty. But when big fit issues arise like this, blame is often on more than one party. 

[Vet88 674]

33 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

You've posted this so many times already. But yet to post any pics. 

I'll help here, here is the shim in the True boot that fits perfectly in his size 5 Bauers:

https://imgur.com/a/FDhX0Lp

and here he is fitting 2 fingers down the back of his heel with his foot in the boot. That is the back of the hand that you are looking at:

https://imgur.com/a/1VFOPK1

[smu 29]

3 hours ago, Vet88 said:

Another very experienced True fitter has already indicated in this thread how he has received skates from True that had a similar story to smu. Saying it never happens doesn't make it so. Now if there was some visibility of True reaching out to the LHS to understand what went wrong and why and feeding this back into the fitment process to improve things then that in itself would be good customer feedback. But saying that you get sent skates that other fitting centers can't get right isn't a great overall look for the process, whilst it may be good for your business how can a member of the public have a high degree of trust in other fitting centers?

Vet88,

You are dead on, I would have like to have had some response from True of what went wrong so at least I would know. Not just once, but this is the third time!

Just getting a second skate back with only half of a fix makes me feel really annoyed and wanted to call True directly, but I respected my LHS as they have been so good I did not want to start a war in their name.

Not being told of what has gone wrong is the worse thing a retailer can do, in my opinion. Now I sit here nearly two months and  know nothing, that's very frustrating and waiting for a third pair makes me very, very anxious as to what can I expect now, instead of knowing what the problem was and what is being done about it. I would be on the phone fast if it were not for my great LHS!

Edited November 19, 2018 by smu
spelling & changed word

[stick9 890]

1 hour ago, smu said:

Vet88,

You are dead on, I would have like to have had some response from True of what went wrong so at least I would know. Not just once, but this is the third time!

Just getting a second skate back with only half of a fix makes me feel really annoyed and wanted to call True directly, but I respected my LHS as they have been so good I did not want to start a war in their name.

Not being told of what has gone wrong is the worse thing a retailer can do, in my opinion. Now I sit here over two months and  know nothing, that's very frustrating and waiting for a third pair makes me very, very anxious as to what can I expect now, instead of knowing what the problem was and what is being done about it. I would be on the phone fast id it were not for my great LHS!

At this point it would probably be a relief to learn it was a simple shipping error. Might even get a laugh out of it knowing some poor sole just got a pair of skates that are way too small for his feet.

Edited November 19, 2018 by stick9

[smu 29]

21 minutes ago, stick9 said:

At this point it would probably be a relief to learn it was a simple shipping error. Might even get a laugh out of it knowing some poor sole just got a pair of skates that are way too small for his feet.

That being said it would be a laugh, but still I know nothing at all, some communication would have helped immensely!

But, you are forgetting something, the holders were misaligned and not just that they were  slightly latterly mounted on both sides, although not to a great amount.

For an over pronator like me they should have been medially mounted.

Apart from the errors, what can anybody say after they were returned the same way the second time?

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

4 hours ago, smu said:

 

Read on!  The first pair of Skates I received had insoles or foot-beds reading #7. With the second pair with and nothing changed except for some stuffing inside the toe box the foot-bed reads #6. Is this just a coincidence? "If the shoe fits, wear it" I am sure there will be a good explanation about this.

1) When my first pair of skates were ordered specific Instructions were given about what was needed to fit my small narrow foot, in particular my narrow heel area and that skates in the LHS were tried on and True was told that my Bauer size 5 D skates fit well, but were too wide and I needed a skate for a narrow foot, thus the reason for getting Trues as well as for pronation issue. I even tried on a 4.5 Tack on and that fit except it was a D width and was too wide in the heel area as well.

Just from this description alone a better pair of skates could have been made without a scan! My toe came nowhere near the toe cap and I could not feel anything and after lacing up they just felt huge. I guessed, by pulling my toe up that I was just about one inch from the end of the toe box! Plus, the holders and rivets were crooked as well and both blades had a bend in them from the misaligned holders. Why should this be even happening!?

To understand how long these skates were I have photos with two fingers touching the end of the heel bottom with two fingers and my foot in the skate, also I could slip the skates of and on and still have the laces through all the eyelets. Try that one and see where it gets you! I have photos of my Bauer siting beside the True skate and it would blow your mind away! I had heel wedges in my Bauer skates that were 2" wide exactly and I used these to off-set pronation as they had a 1º slope from one side to the other. My heel area in the True skates were over 3/8" wider and I am being kind. We asked for a narrow heel area! Even my Superfeet could be slid from side to side showing how wide these skates were to mine. I felt that the skate were closer to a 7 than anything else and that was my guess until the next sentence.

The foot-beds that came with the Trues were there, but it was not until I got home did I realize the number 7 was on the bottom, what else could that mean other than a size 7 skate. More on this in the part where I receive the second skate

These are sent back stating the issues and I had said to my LHS I don't want skates that are too long for me, I want as short as possible and I certainly don't want stuffing in the toe to make me feel like they fit. As I have said they could have made a better pair by just what they were told about my old Bauer's that were perfect fit, but too wide!

2) Second Pair and I cringe!

I get my second pair of skates and I can see immediately that they are the EXACT same skates! The same look and feel with the holders still bent along with the blades, but I tried them on for the sake of the LHS. Right away I could feel something in the toe area, but not much, but it did feel a little better as I could feel my toes just about touching something. As soon as soon as I started to lace my heel was pulled back immediately and the toe feel was gone in a split second, but this did not lock the heel in. It was sloppy and walking around they still felt very large and for some reason the left felt larger. The skate must have had something added to it, but what I was not sure we did not go further with it. It was my thoughts they were going back regardless because they still were not my size etc. This time, along with the with the LHS I looked at the bottom of the insole and now it says size 6 was this just coincidence? True says they do not go by foot size. 

Added - I forgot to say that I had no idea or proof that something was added to the toe until I got home and was playing with the tongue that can be removed with the Velcro and then noticed that I could feel a piece of tape. hanging. It was lose so I pulled at it and out came two spongy rubber pieces about two inches long by an inch wide and held there with masking tape of all things. I have a photo of these with a ruler beside them. If a fix was going to be made I would make it much, much better than this, it is as bad as the crooked holders!

True now tells you that the size you pay for is the determined by the size of the holder that gets mounted on your boot. It is funny, but I usually get the Junior discount for having a small foot. With this True boot, with an extra long toe and larger and huge holder (I am told), takes a skate blade 8 mm longer than my Bauer blade. They now can say that it is a Senior skate. If the skates had of been my size and everything was OK I would not have minded paying a Senior price knowing I would rid myself of my pronation issue, but not now! My skate should have been shorter without an extra length of toe to accommodate a senior blade and as you can see I feel that they just screwed up completely.

To sell an unfit skate is negligence and could have consequences if I had hurt myself on the ice by all these errors. I did get on the ice with them and they were too long and difficult to skate in, being too big and with the blades being warped, but I just took it real careful and then left the ice. I could hear the blades make a funny sound when stopping indicating they were warped or bent! This was confirmed by using a straight edge.

I have been told directly from a person at True that holders are put on by hand as in "custom made" and not an assembly line. How do holders get on crooked with rivets crooked as well if a real person was doing his or her job correctly or are some done on an assembly line?

Now going back a third time is a real downer, I have literally lost 12 games that I could have really enjoyed if the first pair of skates were properly made. I am frightened now just to see a third pair and wonder if it is going to fit right.

Ok curious.  Why do we have to read this for the 12th time. We all know the issues and you haven't gotten your skates back yet. And why not once yet hss the fit center not gotten one once of crtisism. I know if I messed up I sure would be included? 

[Sniper9 529]

10 minutes ago, smu said:

That being said it would be a laugh, but still I know nothing at all, some communication would have helped immensely!

But, you are forgetting something, the holders were misaligned and not just that they were  slightly latterly mounted on both sides, although not to a great amount.

For an over pronator like me they should have been medially mounted.

Apart from the errors, what can anybody say after they were returned the same way the second time?

This will technically be your second skate assuming they are remaking it, as your "second" was just an altered first skate. 

[smu 29]

1 hour ago, Sniper9 said:

This will technically be your second skate assuming they are remaking it, as your "second" was just an altered first skate. 

First and second skate were the same. The second skate had no corrections except for toe stuffing.

Now I await another or maybe it will be the same one again!

[stick9 890]

3 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

This will technically be your second skate assuming they are remaking it, as your "second" was just an altered first skate. 

How about we call it 3rd try and not argue over symantics....

[Leif 161]

Wouldn’t it be better if smu waited for third time lucky, and then showed us the outcome, rather than reposting the same long story again, and again and again? If it was me I’d have been on the phone to True, and given them a polite ear full.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Leif
Typo

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

4 hours ago, Leif said:

Wouldn’t it be better if emu waited for third time lucky, and then showed us the outcome, rather than reposting the same long story again, and again and again? If it was me I’d have been on the phone to True, and given them a polite ear full.

I would have had a talking to with the shop that fitted me and had them email and call why I sat there.  That's what my customers do and only had one client with a 3rd pair. And that was a case of I personally think the customer was making a mountain out of nothing. To long a story to retype. 

[smu 29]

46 minutes ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

I would have had a talking to with the shop that fitted me and had them email and call why I sat there.  That's what my customers do and only had one client with a 3rd pair. And that was a case of I personally think the customer was making a mountain out of nothing. To long a story to retype. 

Good idea, maybe I should have done this ages ago, but the LHS and me thought things would get fixed quickly.  Now, weeks later I am just waiting to find out when I will receive another pair.

Yes, I posted the "story" too many times, perhaps 3X, when I realize it now, but it seemed many just did not see there were at least 2 issues. 

1) One was the size of the skate and nobody here can answer this one except for True

2) Why are holders riveted incorrectly if done by hand and then not even corrected when they are sent back the second time with the same two issues?

That's why I made a specific call to True and asked how holders are mounted, by hand or on an assembly line (at times) and was told categorical "by hand"!

Everyone knows the problem and I thank Vet88 for sharing the photos, I have many more photos, but do not have a way to get them on this forum as I indicated not long ago and JR responded. A member recently asked again where are my photos.

PM me and you will get all my photos!

I see Vet88 used Imgur and perhaps that is something I need, but let's end this now. I don't want anymore abuse for just posting a problem.

I was really reluctant to post anyway and if you search way back I had asked a few pertinent questions about what can be expected from True after I had got my first pair, but never revealing why as I did not to broadcast the problem and did not want to make any waves, now I am involved in a full fledged hurricane!

Shut this down please!

Thanks for all the help though, each and everyone meant the best and I thank you all!

SMU

Edited November 19, 2018 by smu

[z1ggy 81]

34 minutes ago, smu said:

.... I have many more photos, but do not have a way to get them on this forum ....

SMU

Not to be rude, trying to help -

 

Step 1) Take out cell phone, and take photos

Step 2) Go on the internet, go to Imgur.com and make an account

Step 3) Download the imgur app for your phone

Step 4) Use app to upload photos to your imgur account

Step 5) Use the links provided in Imgur to post embedded photos here

 

This should take you all of 10 minutes.

[Leif 161]

On 11/17/2018 at 7:09 PM, Leif said:

I don’t know how he has his shin pads and won’t see him until Thursday. That said, this is caused I assume by the edges of the tongue rubbing against the inside of the skate, assuming it is as per my Bauer skates. 

Something else I forgot, he mentioned that one of the eyelets is falling apart. Someone said these skates are indestructible compared to high end Bauer and CCM, but this friend has two issues with his skates, lining wear and eyelet failure. Okay he's a big lad, 6'5" and build like a brick out house, but still it's not really acceptable from a high end skate. 

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

7 minutes ago, Leif said:

Something else I forgot, he mentioned that one of the eyelets is falling apart. Someone said these skates are indestructible compared to high end Bauer and CCM, but this friend has two issues with his skates, lining wear and eyelet failure. Okay he's a big lad, 6'5" and build like a brick out house, but still it's not really acceptable from a high end skate. 

All skates high end or not have issues. In my mind if it's a repairable issue and there is no charge??? As for the wear from the shin pad that's on the consumer I see it in all skates that come in. How many top players flop? Ovid doesn't count as he has size 11 tongue in his 8+ custom skates. 

[smu 29]

2 hours ago, z1ggy said:

Not to be rude, trying to help -

Step 1) Take out cell phone, and take photos

Step 2) Go on the internet, go to Imgur.com and make an account

Step 3) Download the imgur app for your phone

Step 4) Use app to upload photos to your imgur account

Step 5) Use the links provided in Imgur to post embedded photos here

This should take you all of 10 minutes.

Not rude at all!

Thanks very much, I asked about how to get the photos up before. It may not be until tonight that I can get a chance.

I wonder though that if I do post again it will only tic people off, which it seems that's what I have done so far.

[smu 29]

9 hours ago, Leif said:

Wouldn’t it be better if smu waited for third time lucky, and then showed us the outcome, rather than reposting the same long story again, and again and again? If it was me I’d have been on the phone to True, and given them a polite ear full.

Thanks Leif, I am sooooo sorry now for re-posting the same story, but was it 12 times, I don't think so, perhaps 3X but I could be wrong.

I do say that I want to shut this whole thing down in an earlier post today and wished I never had brought it up in the first place.

Everyone is talking about the size issue, but why are the holders riveted on wrong and then asked True to look into that and the size and all I get back is stuffed toes! They did not even look at the holder issue even though they were alerted to it as well?

Where is the quality control here with the first pair? Then they can't be bothered to fix that issue when they went back with instructions?

I don't think one member (If I am wrong my apologies) picked up on this issue at all and that surprises me. Maybe they did not read my complaint story and I need to put it out there again! 🙂

No answer required, but I will post a few photos as one member told me how to do it and asked me to post, then I need to let this go.......away!

Edited November 19, 2018 by smu
Spelling and adjustments & changes for easier reading

[smu 29]

13 hours ago, stick9 said:

How about we call it 3rd try and not argue over symantics....

Perfect, but I don't want to add anything more as it just come back at me! 🙂

Cheers - SMU

[strosedefence34 175]

@smu not to beat a dead horse, but I am with you. Holder issue aside you got scanned and you got a skate that was completely wrong... okay that happens sometimes. You and your shop think re-scanning/ sending pictures and notes back saying everything that is wrong with the first pair is a good idea.  I agree maybe the first scan was in fact messed up.  This is on True to compare the two scans, notes and pictures and say something isn't adding up here.  Maybe the experience True fitters on the board are correct and the scanner isn't calibrated properly then they could have contacted the LHS and let them know that something is way off with these scans and they could have troubleshot with the LHS to ensure you got scanned correctly.  You might have had to come in for a third scan, but that's better than a third pair of skates.  There just seems to be a disconnect from a customer service standpoint.

I used to work in computer repairs and if we got a repeat customer with a repeat issue that wasn't solved the first time around we would usually have one of our more experienced people check out their computer the second time because we really wanted to nail the issue and not have them come back a third time. 

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

5 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

I would have had a talking to with the shop that fitted me and had them email and call why I sat there.  That's what my customers do and only had one client with a 3rd pair. And that was a case of I personally think the customer was making a mountain out of nothing. To long a story to retype. 

This.  This is what should be happening so as not to exacerbate the problem.  If your "3rd" pair comes back and it's not right again, demand that the LHS contact a True rep on the spot, while you are physically present at the LHS so all parties can figure and sort it out.  Would save a lot of time and headaches.