VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[Sniper9 529]

1 hour ago, smu said:

Vett88 if you are talking about Sniper9, I was trying to help, earlier because I saw where True put my holders on and it was wrong. I saw that Sniper 9's holders were both on the lateral side of his boots as well like mine and since Sniper9 is a pronator he might want to look at that. The post was lost when my photos were uploaded somehow. My discussion with Sniper9 was that his holders may not be placed in the normal spot and I told him how it was done, but I told him to look into it.

He seems to have forgotten that I was trying to help him and has turned me off!

The resolution of his photo is so good you can enlarge it to quite an extent and when I did I saw that both holders are riveted as far over to the lateral side as they could possible go. My skates from True were the same way, laterally placed on the skate the same way as Sniper9. If I was a supinator they might work better, but not for a pronator as Sniper9 is. I suggested that he look into this especially since he is a pronator! If they were riveted medially he may be better off, but somehow with me trying to help he turned sour and said something about my holders and wanted no help from me, perhaps you could try and look at his problem again and zoom in on his holders you will see the issue. maybe there is something wrong at True?.

What I mentioned is that the normal anchor spot for holders is the midpoint heel area and a line from there directly up to between the big toe and the next toe. This would be the other point for a line between the two to be drawn and where the holder is generally placed unless you have perhaps pronation problem, in this case good for an over pronator.

I suggested he do some research on this since it has been awhile since I have looked into it and I could be wrong.

Apparently he has now looked at my skates that I finally got posted, but they do not have high enough high resolution to see them up close and see that both of my holders are on the far lateral side as well. It would be easy to see on my holders if the definition was better.

I was speaking to the LHS today and I said I was calling True tomorrow to discuss all the issues that are with the skates I received and try and get an understanding of what went wrong. Also Why do I see two pairs of skates and both recent with the holders riveted on the far lateral side?

Hopefully get Rob to see if there is any reason to see why their skates have the holders so laterally placed as I don't want my new ones there plus talk about the other issues and see just what they do with pronation now, it seem s like less and less.

Now with my holders in evidence the resolution is not good enough to see that my holders are placed in the same lateral area as Sniper9's but if you can now all understand that mine are out of wack and it is just not me I would be appreciative. They can view where the alignment from the coppers on one skate at least put the holder way off and the other holder just because the copper look almost normal are misaligned as well. Just like Sniper9's Holders!

Thanks,

Cheers - SMU

Seriously what is wrong with you.? All I said was that I know my skates holders are aligned properly. I haven't had any issues and I would have noticed if they were off set since I've been skating on neutral placed holders prior. 

Initially I thought you were complaining about rivets that weren't seated flush. So when I was looking at the pictures I didn't see any crooked rivets. Now that I know you're talking about the holders being not centred, I still don't see it. The pics you're judging my skates off of aren't taken dead on and you can see more of the medial side of the skate. Mind you regardless, I'm telling you that the midline of the holders line up with the midline of the heel and toe box. I'm not asking you what you think because I'm the one that has the skates in front of me. 

And like I said before, the skates are asymmetrical like ur foot. It isn't going to have the exact same amount of boot to either side of the holder. 

There may be a reason why true didnt correct this "rivet issue". Maybe because there isn't one. 

The length is obviously off, and even the heel pocket. But if you're saying the holders are off centre and that mine are because they both are mounted the same, then you're wrong. 

Here's pics or other skates when I googled bottom of ice skates. According to you, I guess all these skates have mismounted holders. 

https://goo.gl/images/5JxCEe

https://goo.gl/images/qJqqow

https://goo.gl/images/zvY5c4

https://goo.gl/images/AwcFKN

https://goo.gl/images/uyuVbU

Anyways I'm not gonna bother reading or replying your future messages. I'm happy with my skates and there aren't any holder alignment issues with them. Hope you get your issues resolved... The ones that are there at least. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Sniper9

[IPv6Freely 2092]

28 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

https://www.hockey1.com/product/true-pro-custom-2-piece-senior-goalie-skate/

Vs the old player holders 

https://www.hockey1.com/product/true-scott-van-horne-custom-junior-skates/

 

Same holder.

[althoma1 574]

I'm not seeing holder issues on Smu's skates either, but it's obvious from the pictures of your feet on the insoles and the sizing difference between your old skates and the Trues that they're at least a full size too long. That's definitely a big issue that shouldn't be solved by taping some foam in the end. The skates should be remade at the proper length. If you have holder mounting requests then do that at the same time, but any holder issues seem minor compared to the obviously way too long skates. 

[boo10 323]

24 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

Same holder.

Not really.  The hole in the front was there for goalie pad toe strap.  The player skates initially didn't have the hole punched out.  Semantics yes, but technically it's the same holder in a different configuration.

[Sniper9 529]

35 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

Same holder.

Ya, so they are now using what was only on the goalie skates before. But now on both skates. 

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

2 hours ago, boo10 said:

Not really.  The hole in the front was there for goalie pad toe strap.  The player skates initially didn't have the hole punched out.  Semantics yes, but technically it's the same holder in a different configuration.

Right. The holder size was stamped in there before, when it was solid. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

3 hours ago, althoma1 said:

I'm not seeing holder issues on Smu's skates either, but it's obvious from the pictures of your feet on the insoles and the sizing difference between your old skates and the Trues that they're at least a full size too long. That's definitely a big issue that shouldn't be solved by taping some foam in the end. The skates should be remade at the proper length. If you have holder mounting requests then do that at the same time, but any holder issues seem minor compared to the obviously way too long skates. 

This is the one downside about custom skates. Some players like less room in the toe area and others like more room. Without having the ability to at least try on a generic skate for size you are entirely at the mercy of those that are manufacturing your skates.

My shop sells a lot of True skates and are very involved in the process of getting the skates made to fit the way the player likes the first time, but even we can't be 100% perfect.. There are just too many variables to account for.

Heck, I've even had people buy Bauer and CCM customs and they said the skate was too long or too short for their liking. One of the guys has been dealing with CCM for weeks now with no resolution in sight. 

I am sure the software company that True and CCM license their software from will develop some type or enhancement that can eliminate as many variables as possible, perhaps asking the player a series of fit questions to better understand what fit type they prefer. 

Personally, I like my toe to brush the toe cap when standing but not touching the toe cap when I am in the skating position. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Nicholas G
Typo

[smu 29]

7 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Here's pics or other skates when I googled bottom of ice skates. According to you, I guess all these skates have mismounted holders. 

https://goo.gl/images/5JxCEe

https://goo.gl/images/qJqqow

https://goo.gl/images/zvY5c4

https://goo.gl/images/AwcFKN

https://goo.gl/images/uyuVbU

Anyways I'm not gonna bother reading or replying your future messages. I'm happy with my skates and there aren't any holder alignment issues with them. Hope you get your issues resolved... The ones that are there at least. 

Just trying to help Snipe!

With what I see in your skate holders differs a lot from those retailer's "stock photos" that of course are going to show you perfect holders.

So be it!

[smu 29]

4 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Personally, I like my toe to brush the toe cap when standing but not touching the toe cap when I am in the skating position. 

This was similar to my size 5 Bauer, perhaps not quite that much, but very close.

[smu 29]

7 hours ago, althoma1 said:

I'm not seeing holder issues on Smu's skates either, but it's obvious from the pictures of your feet on the insoles and the sizing difference between your old skates and the Trues that they're at least a full size too long. That's definitely a big issue that shouldn't be solved by taping some foam in the end. The skates should be remade at the proper length. If you have holder mounting requests then do that at the same time, but any holder issues seem minor compared to the obviously way too long skates. 

I understand you cannot see the holder issue. The photos are too dark, maybe I can adjust some settings and get a couple of pics up. Had I known I was going to put these photos on the forum I would have done a far better job on everything and  I did not think I had to defend myself as the LHS will confirm what I say..

The troublesome back two copper rivets can easily be seen inside, if you can find the correct skate.

Because the holders were misaligned the blades bowed and was first spotted by my LHS when the skates first arrived at his shop.

I did say I had two issues

1) Too big and all agree

2) Problem with holders. Where nobody agrees except when you see the coopers inside one.

I will see if I can make adjustments to my photos to show the off-set problem.

Thanks

[smu 29]

10 hours ago, althoma1 said:

I'm not seeing holder issues on Smu's skates either, but it's obvious from the pictures of your feet on the insoles and the sizing difference between your old skates and the Trues that they're at least a full size too long. That's definitely a big issue that shouldn't be solved by taping some foam in the end. The skates should be remade at the proper length. If you have holder mounting requests then do that at the same time, but any holder issues seem minor compared to the obviously way too long skates. 

Maybe I can at least pass on the inside of both True Skates along with just the one photo I have of my Bauer skates showing the perfect insertion of rivets in the Bauer's and the off-set to the outside of the rivets with the True's.

There is far less room on the outsole of the True Skates and so much so my holders were at the edge where it drops off leaving no more room.

If the photos did not get posted here try looking through my other photos and these will be an easy find. I enlarged these photos in case they are in that other package.

I could give some photos of the bottom, but I have to take so much black out and reduce contrast and raise other hings in the "touch-up" they do not come out very well.

Thanks - SMU

Edited November 22, 2018 by smu
Grammar

[althoma1 574]

I am not a mounting expert. If your LHS says there is a mounting issue; I believe you. It's obvious to everyone they're too big; so they should be remade with an accurate scan and measurements and a new holder would have to be mounted at that time anyway (as you'd likely go down a holder size). 

[smu 29]

1 hour ago, althoma1 said:

I am not a mounting expert. If your LHS says there is a mounting issue; I believe you. It's obvious to everyone they're too big; so they should be remade with an accurate scan and measurements and a new holder would have to be mounted at that time anyway (as you'd likely go down a holder size). 

1 hour ago, althoma1 said:

I am not a mounting expert. If your LHS says there is a mounting issue; I believe you. It's obvious to everyone they're too big; so they should be remade with an accurate scan and measurements and a new holder would have to be mounted at that time anyway (as you'd likely go down a holder size). 

I was just pleased that you answered I did not expect that you are a holder expert! I tried to add 3 enlarged photos to my uploads of yesterday I think just showing what how the rivets inside the skate can tell a lot about where the holder is placed outside the skate. Cheers - SMU

23 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

 

 

[flip12 714]

@smu it helps a bit with the pictures, thanks for adding them to the discussion. I’m not qualified to judge holder mounting or anything like that, but from my experience in looking at pictures of hockey equipment, I can say it’s hard to make out finer details when your photos have so much shadow. Could you try and get some with good overall lighting in the room and with the flash turned off? That might help give a better look at your skates’ alignment.

[Leif 161]

On 11/19/2018 at 3:16 PM, oldtrainerguy28 said:

All skates high end or not have issues. In my mind if it's a repairable issue and there is no charge??? As for the wear from the shin pad that's on the consumer I see it in all skates that come in. How many top players flop? Ovid doesn't count as he has size 11 tongue in his 8+ custom skates. 

I saw Tom this evening at a scrimmage, and he wears his shins outside of his skate tongues. I’m not saying the Trues wear unduly, but they do show signs of wear after 8 months for sure. 

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

59 minutes ago, Leif said:

I saw Tom this evening at a scrimmage, and he wears his shins outside of his skate tongues. I’m not saying the Trues wear unduly, but they do show signs of wear after 8 months for sure. 

But if shins are rubhing. Them that us the cause and not a skate issue. That would for any manufacturer.  Can't blame the skate if you wear them and allow them to rub. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

Quote

All skates high end or not have issues. In my mind if it's a repairable issue and there is no charge??? As for the wear from the shin pad that's on the consumer I see it in all skates that come in. How many top players flop? Ovid doesn't count as he has size 11 tongue in his 8+ custom skates. 

I still see quite a few pros going tongue out. 

 

[Sniper9 529]

Pretty impressed. Emailed true beginning of the week for some extra red foot beds. Got them today no charge. 

 

Also in the mail... My ccm orthomoves from hockeymonkey.ca for only 33 cdn. They are much stiffer at the heel than I thought. Stiffer than the superfeet yellow/carbon which I assumed they would identical to. 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Sniper9

[Leif 161]

6 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

But if shins are rubhing. Them that us the cause and not a skate issue. That would for any manufacturer.  Can't blame the skate if you wear them and allow them to rub. 

You've lost me. Why do you assume his shins are rubbing? What is he doing wrong? 

[smu 29]

17 hours ago, flip12 said:

@smu it helps a bit with the pictures, thanks for adding them to the discussion. I’m not qualified to judge holder mounting or anything like that, but from my experience in looking at pictures of hockey equipment, I can say it’s hard to make out finer details when your photos have so much shadow. Could you try and get some with good overall lighting in the room and with the flash turned off? That might help give a better look at your skates’ alignment.

Thanks for responding, but it is unfortunate that I only used my iPhone for photos. If I ever knew I would be posting to this forum, which is a shocker to me, I would have used my full size Canon and flash. I know I had to reduce the size of most photos so that I did not have a complaint of being too large. But now the skates have gone back. If it was only to do over again it would have been done differently. I just wanted to take some photos just to show how far off these skates were in size mostly and the toe stuffing issue. I saw no remarks about the holders and questioned why and now I realize that only the inside rivets can be seen clearly.

For those that know that the inside rivets will show how the holders are centered these photos should be good enough. It is another more visible story to see skates from the outside bottom where the holders can be so far over as to have the holders at the very edge of the skate's out-sole.

The holders should be centered by all the information that I have researched over the past ten years or so and I will explain in my second last paragraph, below.

I have to say maybe there are variance at times, placed medially for pronators and closer the the inside edge or for supinators they are placed laterally close to the outside of the skate or outsole, closer to that lateral side, as we are talking here.

In my research shows that normally a line is drawn from the center point in the heel pocket to the center of the big toe and the one next to it. This is usually where the skater's center of balance should be and where the blade and holders is best placed. This is then where the holder should be placed and riveted for most 'normal skaters".  Someone please correct me if I am wrong and I am sure you will.

Unfortunately, it does always come off the assembly line that way and if they do come of perfectly they unfortunately may be proper or correct for the many pronators and supinators that make up more skaters then people think. They are then over or under corrected!

Here is where the Superfeet come and very well I might add. They have some arch support and heel-posting or heel correction in the medial side and on the bottom of the Superfeet. You will see that one side is higher than the other. This is to try and force the heel to stand straighter reducing pronation. For the mild over pronators and does them well. I don't think ones are made for the over supinators, but I could be wrong. I never had the needed to look these up!

Thanks again!

[smu 29]

On 11/21/2018 at 10:31 PM, althoma1 said:

I'm not seeing holder issues on Smu's skates either, but it's obvious from the pictures of your feet on the insoles and the sizing difference between your old skates and the Trues that they're at least a full size too long. That's definitely a big issue that shouldn't be solved by taping some foam in the end. The skates should be remade at the proper length. If you have holder mounting requests then do that at the same time, but any holder issues seem minor compared to the obviously way too long skates. 

Thanks for your reply it was much appreciated instead of getting the negatives!

I have just answered Leif I believe on nearly the same issue and yes the width was the problem that could not be fixed whereas the holders just had to be remounted if they had of fitted the boots.

My issue with these is that with the request of my LHS to specifically address this issue and the size, True did nothing with the holders and I got the same pair of skates back with only the toe stuffing job done!

Take a look ate the recent post sent only 20 minutes prior to this wherein I explain again how holders should be  mounted for "normal skaters".

Cheers and thanks again!

SMU

[smu 29]

8 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Pretty impressed. Emailed true beginning of the week for some extra red foot beds. Got them today no charge. 

 

Also in the mail... My ccm orthomoves from hockeymonkey.ca for only 33 cdn. They are much stiffer at the heel than I thought. Stiffer than the superfeet yellow/carbon which I assumed they would identical to. 

Sniper9 I understand you are not going to answer me, but I am posting this "answer" so others can understand it I expect no reply and no need to back-lash please.

I have to say this is great service from True, but, wondering why you would need more filler when the skates were made to fit as we are led to believe? Also your Superfeet were an excellent purchase before, once I get my skate a new pair will go in. In fact they are suggested to be changed every year and you do get a four month return guarantee no questions asked if they don't suit, so lots of time to try them.

Holder Placement - In my research shows that normally a line is drawn from the center point in the heel pocket to the center point between the big toe and the second toe. This is usually where the skater's center of gravity should be and where the blade and holders is best placed for these people. This is then where the holder is placed and riveted for most 'normal skaters".  Someone please correct me if I am wrong and I am sure you will.

Unfortunately, the holders riveted to the boot does not always come off the assembly line this way.

If they do come off the line perfectly they are suited for many, many pronators and supinators that make up more skaters then people think. They are then either over corrected or under corrected!

We can't just count on taking the skates out of the box without inspection. You have to be diligent and examine them much morec loosely and not just the holders. You could count 7 or 8 issues that should be looked at easily.

Here is where the Superfeet come and very well, but only for pronators unless they are made for over supinators as well.

They have some arch support and heel-posting or heel correction, that is that at the medial side and on the bottom of the Superfeet you will see that one underside side is higher than the other. This is posting and it will to try and force the medial heel to stand straighter thus reducing pronation (collapsing). For the mild over pronators it may do them well but, If the person that has real problem with pronation they may need more than just Superfeet to correct the issue.

Hopefully, if you have your True skates made so the issue of pronation is raised surely True will build the skate to off-set the pronation issue.

Thanks Snipe9 for letting me answer, all you said is that you would not listen to me!

Cheers

 

Edited November 23, 2018 by smu
Small errors

[VegasHockey 1280]

12 minutes ago, smu said:

Sniper9 I understand you are not going to answer me, but I am posting this "answer" so others can understand it I expect no reply and no need to back-lash please.

I have to say this is great service from True, but, wondering why you would need more filler when the skates were made to fit as we are led to believe? Also your Superfeet were an excellent purchase before, once I get my skate a new pair will go in. In fact they are suggested to be changed every year and you do get a four month return guarantee no questions asked if they don't suit, so lots of time to try them.

Holder Placement - In my research shows that normally a line is drawn from the center point in the heel pocket to the center point between the big toe and the second toe. This is usually where the skater's center of gravity should be and where the blade and holders is best placed for these people. This is then where the holder is placed and riveted for most 'normal skaters".  Someone please correct me if I am wrong and I am sure you will.

Unfortunately, it does always come off the assembly line that way and if they do come of perfectly, but suited for most. Unfortunately they are correct that presents to be incorrect for the many pronators and supinators that make up more skaters then people think. They are then over or under corrected! We can't count on just taking the skate out of the box without inspecting it in more more closely than just this one problem of holders. You could count 7 or 8 issues that should be looked at easily.

Here is where the Superfeet come and very well, but only for pronators unless they are made for over supinators as well. They have some arch support and heel-posting or heel correction that is in the medial side and on the bottom of the Superfeet. You will see that one underside side is higher than the other. This is posting and it will to try and force the heel to stand straighter thus reducing pronation (collapsing). For the mild over pronators it may do them well but, If the person that has real problems than that, they may need more than just Superfeet to correct the problems. Hopefully, if you have your True skates made and express your pronation problem to them or your local LHS it should look after itself.

Thanks Snipe9 for letting me answer, all you said is that you would not listen to me!

Cheers

 

I am so confused, are SMU and Sniper9 not talking or blocking each other? 

[Sniper9 529]

2 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

I am so confused, are SMU and Sniper9 not talking or blocking each other? 

I refuse to acknowledge his lengthy and redundant posts. But I guess he takes it upon himself to write a novel every reply, while copying and pasting the same things over and over. Guess he doesn't understand that part of a custom skate is to customize it to your liking. Ie. adding or removing the red insole for increased or decreased volume and fine tuning the fit to someone's personal preference. Someone give that guy his own thread so we don't have to read his rants. 

[smu 29]

5 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

I am so confused, are SMU and Sniper9 not talking or blocking each other? 

Nicholas,

He did not agree (nicely) with a comment I made on his high resolution photo of his skate, wherein it was my opinion that both holders were mounted very close to the lateral side. Seeing he was a pronator I suggested it might be his problem.

I was just told that he would not answer any more of my of mt replies, but I saw one that I should reply so everyone gets something out of it.