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3 hours ago, Mario123 said:

Do you think baking the Trues will help that much? I recently tried on a pair of TF9’s, and out of the box, I wasn’t impressed at all. 
The shop I was at would not let me bake them, without buying them...

I am intrigued by the Trues, but don’t want to drop 7 bills plus tax on skates, and not have them fit properly/well. 

Yes, they fit totally diff when baked. Find a shop that will let u bake them and try it on. Or an online retailer that will let you return skates even if baked. 

Or maybe get the tf7s rather than tf9s if you're not quite convinced. 

I think one of the reasons true is having this promo right now is to get people to try their skates that are hesitant. I'm confident (and I'm sure they are) that a lot of people will find them one of the most comfortable fitting skates they have worn. 

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8 hours ago, marka said:

Howdy,

So, for you guys using/fitting these things... Are you finding that @Hills is right and they fit a half size bigger than "normal"?  I.e. that if you wear an 8.5 commonly, you want an 8 in the retail Trues?

Mark

I did not find that to be the case.  I tried a 7.5R and my toes were right on the cap, which is the same for a CCM 7.5D.  I definitely could not drop down to a 7R, and if anything would say the True felt a smidge shorter.  Hills wears a W/EE, so maybe it has something to do with that?

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11 hours ago, mojo122 said:

Sorry, I don't recall CCM or Easton offering fit stock demos to retailers.  If True has deep pockets and can afford it within their business model then good for them.

Sorry, I should’ve qualified it a little further. The shop was given the ability to buy one pair of each size offered, heavily discounted. I seem to recall it around the Synergy and Vector timeline, at the time they were used to demo on ice, as opposed to size. 
it’s possible you’re correct and it got too costly for the vendor or retailer and that’s why it went away

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4 hours ago, Mario123 said:

Do you think baking the Trues will help that much? I recently tried on a pair of TF9’s, and out of the box, I wasn’t impressed at all. 
The shop I was at would not let me bake them, without buying them...

I am intrigued by the Trues, but don’t want to drop 7 bills plus tax on skates, and not have them fit properly/well. 

True skates MUST be baked to fit correctly. Asking "will it help" doesn't make sense, because it's not an optional thing. Let's use another example of something heat moldable - mouth guards. Would you buy a "boil-n-bite" mouthguard, and just pop it in your mouth? Or would you actually follow the fitting process? I mean, you technically CAN skip the heat molding in both cases, but you can't complain about them fitting poorly if you do.

 

Anyway, as for the baking discussion - I was actually specifically NOT talking about demo stock. I'm talking about the actual product. Here's the scenario in my head:

  • Let's say True determines that their skates can be baked 8 times before they break down prematurely (who knows).
  • Tell the customers their skates should never be baked more than 3 times
  • This gives the retailer 5 attempts at selling that pair, which seems reasonable to me (but obviously you'd need to determine what is a typical number of times a specific pair of skates are fitted for customers before somebody buys them) 
  • If you hit the "retailer bake limit", the pair gets sent back to True like any other warranty claim (obviously with a note that they aren't ACTUALLY warranty skates)

How many pairs would be sent to True if it was rolled out in this way? I have no idea, and obviously they'd have to figure out all the numbers and stuff. I'm just throwing ideas around - I do not know how the manufacturers operate nor how a retail store operates. Don't @ me about it - I don't actually care that much. 

Either way, I think it's on True to figure out how to make sure these things are being fit correctly, which means educating retailers on the baking requirements, or else True retail skates are doomed to fail. They're already behind the 8-ball just because they don't say "BAUER" on the side.

I do also wonder if at some point Bauer and CCM will start making skates that also absolutely must be baked to fit them correctly as well. There still seems to be a significant chunk of the population that still thinks baking skates is just to help them break in faster.

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47 minutes ago, boo10 said:

I did not find that to be the case.  I tried a 7.5R and my toes were right on the cap, which is the same for a CCM 7.5D.  I definitely could not drop down to a 7R, and if anything would say the True felt a smidge shorter.  Hills wears a W/EE, so maybe it has something to do with that?

Did you bake them? R wearers gave me the same feedback for length.

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18 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

True skates MUST be baked to fit correctly. Asking "will it help" doesn't make sense, because it's not an optional thing. Let's use another example of something heat moldable - mouth guards. Would you buy a "boil-n-bite" mouthguard, and just pop it in your mouth? Or would you actually follow the fitting process? I mean, you technically CAN skip the heat molding in both cases, but you can't complain about them fitting poorly if you do.

 

Anyway, as for the baking discussion - I was actually specifically NOT talking about demo stock. I'm talking about the actual product. Here's the scenario in my head:

  • Let's say True determines that their skates can be baked 8 times before they break down prematurely (who knows).
  • Tell the customers their skates should never be baked more than 3 times
  • This gives the retailer 5 attempts at selling that pair, which seems reasonable to me (but obviously you'd need to determine what is a typical number of times a specific pair of skates are fitted for customers before somebody buys them) 
  • If you hit the "retailer bake limit", the pair gets sent back to True like any other warranty claim (obviously with a note that they aren't ACTUALLY warranty skates)

How many pairs would be sent to True if it was rolled out in this way? I have no idea, and obviously they'd have to figure out all the numbers and stuff. I'm just throwing ideas around - I do not know how the manufacturers operate nor how a retail store operates. Don't @ me about it - I don't actually care that much. 

Either way, I think it's on True to figure out how to make sure these things are being fit correctly, which means educating retailers on the baking requirements, or else True retail skates are doomed to fail. They're already behind the 8-ball just because they don't say "BAUER" on the side.

I do also wonder if at some point Bauer and CCM will start making skates that also absolutely must be baked to fit them correctly as well. There still seems to be a significant chunk of the population that still thinks baking skates is just to help them break in faster.

Good points, in addition, the numbers might dictate that a pair can be baked many more times for fitting because there is no stress being put on them, so in that case having discounted fit pairs might make sense.

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3 minutes ago, BenBreeg said:

Good points, in addition, the numbers might dictate that a pair can be baked many more times for fitting because there is no stress being put on them, so in that case having discounted fit pairs might make sense.

Yeah I was going to add that in there as well but couldn't come up with the right wording. "Floor model" discounts for skates baked > x number of times, or some such. 

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1 hour ago, Hills said:

Did you bake them? R wearers gave me the same feedback for length.

I did not as I knew I would not purchase when I was there and this particular store will not bake without a purchase commitment, (still may do so).  You make a fair point, but in order to get a proper fit for length, the skate would have to change in feel by a full size for me.  My toes were a little tighter against the cap than they should be.  If my heel moved back enough to only give 1/2 size increase, I still would have been more than "brushing the cap".

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11 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

To avoid having to bake a number of diff skates for consumers to try on, the shop should be trained and educated as much as possible in sizing up the customer to the point where they know what length and width the customer needs. If that's done the chances of the skates not fitting or feeling right is drastically reduced. It's not different than sizing up any other retail brand. The only diff is with trues you need to tell the customer it's going to feel ten times better baked. Trues price point is also at a level where I think most people would risk trying them out. 

Agreed. I thought it was a given, but yeah, True needs to be educating shops on the fit of this skate. I'd assume it's like all things in that is somewhat predictable and once you figure out how to fit them you can pretty much nail down the right skate for someone and then bake it to make sure. A shop can probably avoid baking more than one pair of skates the majority of the time once they figure it out. Obviously there will be exceptions, but I don't see why anyone would need to bake 5 different sizes of skates...

11 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

 

End of the day were wasting too much time here talking about whether their retail skates will flourish or not. Why don't we leave that problem to true, and keep this thread more educational for people interested in the skates. 

I think the root of this discussion, though it probably has devolved too much into industry talk, is that the skates must be baked beforehand. This is important for anyone interested in the skates to make sure that they find a shop that will fit them properly.

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Baking is time consuming, and shops I know have enough on their plate without extra shenanigans. It would make more sense to scan a customer’s feet to determine the correct size if any. I can’t imagine a size 8 True TF9 would fit all feet that have the right length. What proportion will fit? Is the toe cap mouldable? My feet are flippers, some people have pasties, how do you cope with that? 

Edited by Leif

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28 minutes ago, Leif said:

Baking is time consuming, and shops I know have enough on their plate without extra shenanigans. It would make more sense to scan a customer’s feet to determine the correct size if any. I can’t imagine a size 8 True TF9 would fit all feet that have the right length. What proportion will fit? Is the toe cap mouldable? My feet are flippers, some people have pasties, how do you cope with that? 

Scans are also time consuming... 

They are not custom skates, so they will not fit everyone, but they are built on a stock last and will mold to fit a wider range of feet than most other skates. They have wide toe boxes and narrower heels and the heels and ankle can open up significantly, as well as offering wide sizes. For anyone who fits a normal retail skate, they should be able to find one of these that fits them. Obviously there will be exceptions, and they are not custom skates

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Bought the TF9's, fit was so-so out of the box... After baking at home (and shrink wrapping) the heel is 100% locked in and comfy, but a little room in the forefoot, thinking about baking again and shrink wrapping the forefoot section.

However, the lace bite i'm getting is just ridiculous... I've tried lacing the skates inwards out, outwards in, different lace bite lacing methods... I'm not failing the "pencil test"... I've tried to contact true support (e-mail) to try to see if they will ship me a different tongue or something... 9 days and 2 emails later, no answer... 😞 

I'll be skating in my MX3's tonight ... sadly.

 

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2 minutes ago, Thorisson#3 said:

Bought the TF9's, fit was so-so out of the box... After baking at home (and shrink wrapping) the heel is 100% locked in and comfy, but a little room in the forefoot, thinking about baking again and shrink wrapping the forefoot section.

However, the lace bite i'm getting is just ridiculous... I've tried lacing the skates inwards out, outwards in, different lace bite lacing methods... I'm not failing the "pencil test"... I've tried to contact true support (e-mail) to try to see if they will ship me a different tongue or something... 9 days and 2 emails later, no answer... 😞 

I'll be skating in my MX3's tonight ... sadly.

 

Are you getting lace bite at the top? A lot of people find they don’t need to lace Trues with much if any tension. The molding more than snugs the boot up sufficiently for performance.

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12 minutes ago, flip12 said:

Are you getting lace bite at the top? A lot of people find they don’t need to lace Trues with much if any tension. The molding more than snugs the boot up sufficiently for performance.

Thank you for the reply.

Yeah, it's near the top, somewhere in the 2nd to 3th eyelid from the top. I'm only tightening the skates as tight as i need, just so there's no heel movement, nothing to serious.

Maybe i'll just buy some white felt and either sew or glue it inside the tongue for more padding, maybe that'll be worse ? Ugh, can't believe i'm going through this with brand new pair of skates 😕

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@Thorisson#3, did you purchase them through a retailer? With True customs that was the first line of trouble shooting. It’s probably even more difficult for True to address consumers individually now that they’re growing.

I got a little lace bite in my MLX, but over the middle eyelets. It was only with the stock tongue which had a pretty stiff thermoplastic piece just beneath the outer pleather (probably pleather). That was the only section I was cranking down on the eyelets. Now that I’ve swapped for the softest Graf tongue I have, it’s no problem, paradoxically.

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16 minutes ago, Thorisson#3 said:

Thank you for the reply.

Yeah, it's near the top, somewhere in the 2nd to 3th eyelid from the top. I'm only tightening the skates as tight as i need, just so there's no heel movement, nothing to serious.

Maybe i'll just buy some white felt and either sew or glue it inside the tongue for more padding, maybe that'll be worse ? Ugh, can't believe i'm going through this with brand new pair of skates 😕

Try the traditional felt tongue. My buddy also felt that the t guard felt tongue have him pressure points bc of how hard the t guard is bf regular felt only. The new lightweight tongues seem pretty thin and personally I prefer a beefy tongue. 

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26 minutes ago, flip12 said:

@Thorisson#3, did you purchase them through a retailer? With True customs that was the first line of trouble shooting. It’s probably even more difficult for True to address consumers individually now that they’re growing.

I got a little lace bite in my MLX, but over the middle eyelets. It was only with the stock tongue which had a pretty stiff thermoplastic piece just beneath the outer pleather (probably pleather). That was the only section I was cranking down on the eyelets. Now that I’ve swapped for the softest Graf tongue I have, it’s no problem, paradoxically.

Yes, i pre-ordered through IW hockey. They told me that they are not carrying any tongues or other parts for the skates now or in the future and told me to contact True directly.

 

24 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

Try the traditional felt tongue. My buddy also felt that the t guard felt tongue have him pressure points bc of how hard the t guard is bf regular felt only. The new lightweight tongues seem pretty thin and personally I prefer a beefy tongue. 

Yeah, that could be the issue, i'd like to replace the tongue.. for free or for a fee but i can't seem to find any place willing to sell it to me. I live in Iceland and there is no local hockey shop here 😕 only online stores in EU or NA.

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58 minutes ago, Thorisson#3 said:

Yes, i pre-ordered through IW hockey. They told me that they are not carrying any tongues or other parts for the skates now or in the future and told me to contact True directly.

 

Yeah, that could be the issue, i'd like to replace the tongue.. for free or for a fee but i can't seem to find any place willing to sell it to me. I live in Iceland and there is no local hockey shop here 😕 only online stores in EU or NA.

Woah! How much hockey is there in Iceland? That’s unfortunate about IW not helping, and True not answering if their dealer’s unwilling and/or unable to help. We have a pretty solid True dealer in Copenhagen, REX Hockey. Though you might be better off financially contacting a Swedish dealer. That could spare you import duties if you got help from someone in North America.

Since the tongue just Velcro’s out, could you try and just remove the tongues and pop in some from another pair of skates? That’s what I’ve done in mine. I usually just slide them in and let the laces hold them in place. It could be a quick check to see if that’s a help at all.

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4 hours ago, flip12 said:

Woah! How much hockey is there in Iceland? That’s unfortunate about IW not helping, and True not answering if their dealer’s unwilling and/or unable to help. We have a pretty solid True dealer in Copenhagen, REX Hockey. Though you might be better off financially contacting a Swedish dealer. That could spare you import duties if you got help from someone in North America.

Since the tongue just Velcro’s out, could you try and just remove the tongues and pop in some from another pair of skates? That’s what I’ve done in mine. I usually just slide them in and let the laces hold them in place. It could be a quick check to see if that’s a help at all.

I had a customer come in today with the new CCM XS tongues in their TRUE skates. He drilled out two little holes in the boot and used the CCM XS tongue and it seems to work nicely.

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40 minutes ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

I had a customer come in today with the new CCM XS tongues in their TRUE skates. He drilled out two little holes in the boot and used the CCM XS tongue and it seems to work nicely.

He drilled the holes in the true toe box like how it is with the CCM ones? Not a bad idea but I'm personally not a fan of ccm tongues. 

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6 hours ago, Thorisson#3 said:

Yes, i pre-ordered through IW hockey. They told me that they are not carrying any tongues or other parts for the skates now or in the future and told me to contact True directly.

 

Yeah, that could be the issue, i'd like to replace the tongue.. for free or for a fee but i can't seem to find any place willing to sell it to me. I live in Iceland and there is no local hockey shop here 😕 only online stores in EU or NA.

There must be a true europe email you can contact who would be able to sell and ship you the tongues. I know you can in NA.  I'm lucky in that my LHS has them in stock. 

You also can get some Nash Sniper tongues and just sew some loop velcro on them and put them on. I know it sucks to have to do it on new skates. Maybe a cheaper method would be to just get some gel lacebite pads and out them under the tongue. 

 

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30 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

He drilled the holes in the true toe box like how it is with the CCM ones? Not a bad idea but I'm personally not a fan of ccm tongues. 

Yeah, just drilled two little holes and then use the CCM XS tongue. Ill grab some pics tommorrow. He was using the new thin XS tongue. I was suprised how good it looks. 

rs.php?path=CMXST-02-1.jpg

rs.php?path=CMXST-02-2.jpg

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You could also stitch/glue velcro on an existing set of tongues rather than drilling into the boot?

 

Thats what I did to have my Nash Snipers in the True boot previously.

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22 hours ago, Thorisson#3 said:

Bought the TF9's, fit was so-so out of the box... After baking at home (and shrink wrapping) the heel is 100% locked in and comfy, but a little room in the forefoot, thinking about baking again and shrink wrapping the forefoot section.

However, the lace bite i'm getting is just ridiculous... I've tried lacing the skates inwards out, outwards in, different lace bite lacing methods... I'm not failing the "pencil test"... I've tried to contact true support (e-mail) to try to see if they will ship me a different tongue or something... 9 days and 2 emails later, no answer... 😞 

I'll be skating in my MX3's tonight ... sadly.

 

Hey Thorisson#3,

I'm not sure if it's because of Covid or how emails are screened or what not but I had a warranty issue with the TF9's and I called True and talked to a customer service rep. I had email but didn't get a response so I called them.

Once I got a customer service rep, they were very responsive and easy to work with so try that if you haven't already.

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On 9/1/2020 at 9:56 PM, flip12 said:

Woah! How much hockey is there in Iceland? That’s unfortunate about IW not helping, and True not answering if their dealer’s unwilling and/or unable to help. We have a pretty solid True dealer in Copenhagen, REX Hockey. Though you might be better off financially contacting a Swedish dealer. That could spare you import duties if you got help from someone in North America.

Since the tongue just Velcro’s out, could you try and just remove the tongues and pop in some from another pair of skates? That’s what I’ve done in mine. I usually just slide them in and let the laces hold them in place. It could be a quick check to see if that’s a help at all.

Sadly the hockey culture isn't big in Iceland (even tho we were the big bad guys in D2: The Mighty Ducks (1994) lol. we've got 3 top-tier teams (was 4) and 4-5 beer-league teams with try-hards and old-stars 🙂

Back to the topic, I thought of removing the tongues of the Bauer MX3's and putting it in the True's but it seemed a little drastic, figured i'd contact IW/True first and see if they'd be willing to help me out with True tongues. Still, if nothing comes out of that, i might try to stich/glue white felt on the back of the True tongue and if that doesn't work then i'll probably just swap tongues.

 

6 hours ago, Asian Tomatoe said:

Hey Thorisson#3,

I'm not sure if it's because of Covid or how emails are screened or what not but I had a warranty issue with the TF9's and I called True and talked to a customer service rep. I had email but didn't get a response so I called them.

Once I got a customer service rep, they were very responsive and easy to work with so try that if you haven't already.

Hey Tomatoe 🙂

I was gong to call today but True answered my e-mails this morning, said there was issue with their e-mail server or something, we've started the dialogue, hopefully they can set something in motion to ship me new tongues.

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