CCM 2021 skate questions

[Beflar 53]

So Bauer in 2020 changed their skate fitting system with having three different types of fit for every type of skate that they make.  Great idea as you are now no longer stuck with one type of skate because of your foot shape.  I just looked at the CCM 2021 catalog and it looks like CCM are now doing this.  Am I seeing this correctly?

New helmets looks amazing btw.  Probably won't fit me but I love the new tech in it.

Can I post the link to the catalog here?

Edited April 3, 2021 by Beflar

[robbjbyoung 20]

I'm fairly sure the rule on this forum is to not post unreleased gear unless from a source that's VERY public. JR mentioned it here in a sticky: 

Having said that, if it's easy to find for yourself online, then I'm sure you could give some direction as to where you found it. If it's googleable, we let someone else take the slap on the wrist for having it available rather than directly linking, or god forbit HOSTING it here.

Edited April 3, 2021 by robbjbyoung
Accidentally a couple words

[stick9 890]

23 hours ago, Beflar said:

So Bauer in 2020 changed their skate fitting system with having three different types of fit for every type of skate that they make.  Great idea as you are now no longer stuck with one type of skate because of your foot shape.  I just looked at the CCM 2021 catalog and it looks like CCM are now doing this.  Am I seeing this correctly?

New helmets looks amazing btw.  Probably won't fit me but I love the new tech in it.

Can I post the link to the catalog here?

Isnt this long overdue by both companies? I mean I hated being told, based on your foot you need <insert model here>. I'd much rather pick a skate based on features.

[stick9 890]

On the topic of ccm fit characteristics. I like what they did and how they break down the different fits. It's far more intuitive than what I saw from Bauer. One other little nugget I liked. They list the skate lines by stiffness.

[clarkiestooth 235]

I think it's a bit overkill. If they are going to offer 3 fits for a skate, they don't need three different lines (tacks/jetspeed/ribcore or vapor/supreme/ phased out nexus).  That has to make it brutal for retailers to stock inventory, and not really necessary.

[stick9 890]

2 hours ago, clarkiestooth said:

I think it's a bit overkill. If they are going to offer 3 fits for a skate, they don't need three different lines (tacks/jetspeed/ribcore or vapor/supreme/ phased out nexus).  That has to make it brutal for retailers to stock inventory, and not really necessary.

In the case of Bauer, yeah it was overkill and once they altered the fits the nexus was redundant.

As for ccm, I think it has some customer facing value. Being able to slot into a softer/stiffer boot will nice.

[mojo122 535]

2 hours ago, clarkiestooth said:

I think it's a bit overkill. If they are going to offer 3 fits for a skate, they don't need three different lines (tacks/jetspeed/ribcore or vapor/supreme/ phased out nexus).  That has to make it brutal for retailers to stock inventory, and not really necessary.

Vapor and Supreme are still two different boot cuts and perform differently .  As for inventory, on the models utilizing the 3 fit system the numbers are basically the same while those models using the 2D fit, inventory is less.

29 minutes ago, stick9 said:

In the case of Bauer, yeah it was overkill and once they altered the fits the nexus was redundant.

As for ccm, I think it has some customer facing value. Being able to slot into a softer/stiffer boot will nice.

Stiffer has always been seen as better from a performance standpoint.  Question is as to whether the Tacks is too stiff and whether the RibCore isn't stiff enough.

[boo10 323]

6 minutes ago, mojo122 said:

Stiffer has always been seen as better from a performance standpoint.

That line of thinking is a big part of the problem with today's skates.  Some of the quickest skaters in the NHL wear Ribcor skates, (MacKinnon and Hagelin come to mind).  Stiffness has it's benefits, but the ultra stiff boots severely hamper agility and cause some other mechanical issues.  Never heard of a hockey player having a high ankle sprain until boots started getting super stiff.

[mojo122 535]

27 minutes ago, boo10 said:

That line of thinking is a big part of the problem with today's skates.  Some of the quickest skaters in the NHL wear Ribcor skates, (MacKinnon and Hagelin come to mind).  Stiffness has it's benefits, but the ultra stiff boots severely hamper agility and cause some other mechanical issues.  Never heard of a hockey player having a high ankle sprain until boots started getting super stiff.

Hard to say exactly what the build is of those players skates unless they're skating in off the shelf retail skates.  

[flip12 714]

1 hour ago, mojo122 said:

Stiffer has always been seen as better from a performance standpoint. 

Sergei Fedorov is one of the more prominent opponents of that view.

[nisselrm 21]

1 hour ago, boo10 said:

That line of thinking is a big part of the problem with today's skates.  Some of the quickest skaters in the NHL wear Ribcor skates, (MacKinnon and Hagelin come to mind).  Stiffness has it's benefits, but the ultra stiff boots severely hamper agility and cause some other mechanical issues.  Never heard of a hockey player having a high ankle sprain until boots started getting super stiff.

We have no idea what stiffness they use. Those ribcores could be equivalent to bauer +4. Further, who knows what their internal fit is? It could be a skin with any possible option or it could be a retail boot. Can't say without examination.

[stick9 890]

18 minutes ago, nisselrm said:

We have no idea what stiffness they use. Those ribcores could be equivalent to bauer +4. Further, who knows what their internal fit is? It could be a skin with any possible option or it could be a retail boot. Can't say without examination.

No, but at least they are attaching a number to it like flex ratings on sticks. It wont take too long to figure out how those numbers translate to other brands, like sticks.

[stick9 890]

Isn't stiffness relative to the player? I mean, take two players at identical skill levels, the only difference is one players weighs 140lbs, the other is 200lbs. You put both of them in the same exact skate and the results will vary.

The reason I mention this is because I sort of had one of those ah-ha moments with skates. Up until late 2019 I was fairly happy with my Vapor 1X 2.0. I really like the injected lacing and the flex lock tongue and that skate looked awesome. I was bored one day so I started looking at skates on SS. I found a used pair of pro stock 70k's with edge holders. They were my size and crazy cheap. I figured what the hell. If I hate em, I'll flip or keep them for pond skates. Turns out, there was an immediate boost to my skating. Things I struggled with were no longer an issue and there were certain things I found myself doing that I was not able to in other skates. 

This tells me, fit is not really king. I don't think my ribcors fit perfectly. My heel is locked in, I don't have any lace-bite issues but there is some negative space in the toe box that's not there in the vapors. Yet they still out perform the vapors by a wide margin, and I think the Vapor is a much better skate. I've worn the vapors once since I got the ribcors. That was after I decided to convert them to inlines. Zero regrets.

[Miller55 333]

On 4/3/2021 at 11:26 AM, robbjbyoung said:

I'm fairly sure the rule on this forum is to not post unreleased gear unless from a source that's VERY public. JR mentioned it here in a sticky: 

Having said that, if it's easy to find for yourself online, then I'm sure you could give some direction as to where you found it. If it's googleable, we let someone else take the slap on the wrist for having it available rather than directly linking, or god forbit HOSTING it here.

It's hosted on Pure hockey... 

 

58 minutes ago, stick9 said:

Isn't stiffness relative to the player? I mean, take two players at identical skill levels, the only difference is one players weighs 140lbs, the other is 200lbs. You put both of them in the same exact skate and the results will vary.

The reason I mention this is because I sort of had one of those ah-ha moments with skates. Up until late 2019 I was fairly happy with my Vapor 1X 2.0. I really like the injected lacing and the flex lock tongue and that skate looked awesome. I was bored one day so I started looking at skates on SS. I found a used pair of pro stock 70k's with edge holders. They were my size and crazy cheap. I figured what the hell. If I hate em, I'll flip or keep them for pond skates. Turns out, there was an immediate boost to my skating. Things I struggled with were no longer an issue and there were certain things I found myself doing that I was not able to in other skates. 

This tells me, fit is not really king. I don't think my ribcors fit perfectly. My heel is locked in, I don't have any lace-bite issues but there is some negative space in the toe box that's not there in the vapors. Yet they still out perform the vapors by a wide margin, and I think the Vapor is a much better skate. I've worn the vapors once since I got the ribcors. That was after I decided to convert them to inlines. Zero regrets.

I too like the ribcore a lot, but find the fit to be way too shallow, so I'm excited for this new fit system. That convinced with the 100k pro monocoque boot is very enticing for my next skates whenever I need them

[BenBreeg 493]

Same as @Miller55, I like the comfort and flex of the Ribcore, but the heel and shallow boot are drawbacks for me.  A 100K in the mid-fit sounds like something I would try.

[Hills 712]

I loved the flex you could feel in the FT1 and the FT2 felt WAY stiffer and lost that feeling completely. So I would love the 100K in the Wide fit.

I don't see a HUGE point in the FT2 and the Tacks line anymore. Both felt extremely stiff when I compared the FT2 to my AS1, never got a chance to try the AS3 Pro though.

[Miller55 333]

4 hours ago, Hills said:

I loved the flex you could feel in the FT1 and the FT2 felt WAY stiffer and lost that feeling completely. So I would love the 100K in the Wide fit.

I don't see a HUGE point in the FT2 and the Tacks line anymore. Both felt extremely stiff when I compared the FT2 to my AS1, never got a chance to try the AS3 Pro though.

Obviously it's because some people need red skates and others need yellow..

 

[Beflar 53]

Here is a question then, I have Bauer Supreme One100 skates.  I'm a strong guy and even after all these years I can barely get  the sides of the skates to move if I try and pinch them together.  How would my skates rate on a CCM stiffness rating?  I can't imagine the new skates being stiffer than this but I haven't tried the new skates.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Beflar

[Neo5370 132]

17 hours ago, flip12 said:

Sergei Fedorov is one of the more prominent opponents of that view.

Brian Leetch too.  Couldn't find the article, but remember reading bout him scoffing at the idea that stiffer skates could make him skate better.  To each his own.

[Miller55 333]

8 hours ago, Beflar said:

Here is a question then, I have Bauer Supreme One100 skates.  I'm a strong guy and even after all these years I can barely get  the sides of the skates to move if I try and pinch them together.  How would my skates rate on a CCM stiffness rating?  I can't imagine the new skates being stiffer than this but I haven't tried the new skates.

Just from my knowledge of the materials, I would say that there's no comparison. Today's skates are much stiffer. I owned the One95s and I can say that the 2S Pros are in a different league in stiffness. The CCM Super Tacks are not quite as stiff as the 2S pros, and from my understanding the as1 and as3 pro are stiffer than the 2015 Super Tacks, and probably similar to the 2S Pros, give or take a little. 

[start_today 770]

The arms race for stiffest skate is kind of bizarre. No one really asked for it. At least with lighter stick you can argue a performance benefit for carrying 5 fewer grams (I guess🙄). 
 

They are convincing consumers that a stiffer skate is better, and evidence seems to be to the contrary. Yes, a stiffer composite skate is better than a floppy leather skate with zero support, but we are way past diminishing returns there. 

[shooter27 116]

The race for the stiffest skate has been going on for ages.  The original Bauer 7000’s from about ‘99 or so are still the stiffest skates I’ve felt out of the box.  The felt like a brick before they were baked, and even after.  I haven’t touched a new skate in about five years, but from what I recall the last top end model I touched wasn’t nearly as stiff as those old 7000’s.  The material was harder, since the old ones were built with leather and ballistic nylon (I think), but actually had more built-in flex than those old one because of how many layers of materials it took to build the old ones.  

Edited April 6, 2021 by shooter27

[raganblink 82]

CCM is over-estimating the demand for $1000 skates I think and the practicality for retailers to bring in all of their lines and stock 3 different fits. 2 lines and 3 fits works for Bauer because they do substantially more volume in skates. 3 lines and 3 fits would probably work for Bauer, too. 

 

I don't see many shops carrying all 3 models and fits beyond the largest Pure in an area (and even then, probably only 4-5 cities) and a half dozen independents. Best of luck to them, just seems challenging to me to accomplish. I know we're our rep's biggest dealer and while we'll have all 3 models, we're only bringing in regular and wide fits, and even then a low quantity with us chasing the rest of the way. $1000 skates don't sell daily, unfortunately. 

[Beflar 53]

2 hours ago, raganblink said:

CCM is over-estimating the demand for $1000 skates I think and the practicality for retailers to bring in all of their lines and stock 3 different fits. 2 lines and 3 fits works for Bauer because they do substantially more volume in skates. 3 lines and 3 fits would probably work for Bauer, too. 

 

I don't see many shops carrying all 3 models and fits beyond the largest Pure in an area (and even then, probably only 4-5 cities) and a half dozen independents. Best of luck to them, just seems challenging to me to accomplish. I know we're our rep's biggest dealer and while we'll have all 3 models, we're only bringing in regular and wide fits, and even then a low quantity with us chasing the rest of the way. $1000 skates don't sell daily, unfortunately. 

I was under the impression that the CCM one piece boot design was selling well.  That plus adding Step steel makes CCM a very strong boot IMHO.

Currently skating in Bauer skates.  

[start_today 770]

Does anyone but a bunch of equipment nerds care what type of steel skates sell with at retail? Most people can’t be bothered to figure out what hollow they skate on.