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Truth be told, I don't know of any belly flap that has truly been worth a damn other than back when Warrior added the extra (sixpack) protection in it a few years back. I personally had my pants modified with the Small Nash pad and its been great.

Does anyone know of an existing table of the measurements of all the blade holders out there? Particularly, height of the forward pillar, the rear pillar, and the ramp angle (i.e. the forward lean angle). If one doesn't already exist, I'd be happy to compile one from user-submitted measurements. I think this would be very useful info for folks trying to modify skates to work with their biomechanics.

You can keep them inside during the bake but it doesn't reduce the softness and thickness. They're terrible insoles imo. I don't know why true would use such thick insoles that deaden the feel of your edges.

There are various places online that you can get new pro stock pants, but I've only ever bought used ones on eBay or Sideline Swap. I've found it better to identify the model of pants you want, for example "CCM HP45", and search for that. If you only search for pro stock, you often are missing a good number of options. With both Sideline Swap and eBay you can set up alerts to get notified of new items that get listed that match what you are looking for. With a bit of patience, I've had good success getting specific model and color used pants still in good shape for under $100. You can pay $50-$100 more, but I'd rather save the money. And by "save the money" I mean fund other hockey equipment purchases. That being said, if you have your heart set on an exact color/version that is uncommon it can take a lot of patience and a lot more money depending on what it is (like specific outdoor game or specialty colorways).

I know what you mean, but there is no padding anywhere in that region, it is just the closure system, which is very thin. I bought the pants, I'll try to get a picture of it. There is less protection in that area. However, I do not think it will cause any big gaps. Last game (I paid more attention than I ever have to that region and) I noticed that the flap of the 3S pants overlap quite a bit with the extension pad (bottom) of my Ultrasonic shoulder pads, when you are in a skating position. Overall, the pants are very nice and I am happy with them.

To add to what Davideo posted above, I think the two areas you should be comparing are what I circled in yellow on the modified picture below.

It’s mostly just there for some cushion behind the belt buckle, so you’ll be fine. David Tomášek of the Edmonton oilers uses the Tackla Breezer 3D prozone girdle. https://tackla.eu/tuote/tackla-breezer-3d-prozone-icehockey-girdle-sr/ it has crazy amounts of padding everywhere except for the lower abdomen which is not padded at all.

I just tried an ACP Pro girdle last night and noticed it didn't have any padding there either, my Super Tacks one has a little something, but like swede said, I don't think that little padding there is doing much anyways. I didn't notice it missing while playing last night.

It’s totally uneccesary.. it’s just a piece of foam that actually don’t offer much protection anyway. I have the Supreme 2s pants which have a big belly flap, but i find it mostly in the way, and kinda restrict me in my skating, so i push it as far down as i can. My 12 year old son went from Vapor x900 lite pants which also have a big flap to Tackla Expp55 pants which don’t have any flap at all and also have a much lower cut front than other pants on the market. He is much more mobile in the lower cut tackla pants. And he plays D with most blocked shots on the team. He says, there is tension in the abs when skating, so the padding for the lower abdomen is uneccesary

If the place you shop has the big pro sharp cabinet setup, they may also have demo steel to try. Just ask.

I bit the bullet and ordered the tapered ones in my size (the 35% off clearance price deal was too good to pass up, basically paid half price for them). They fit just like the OG Jetspeeds before CCM offered the "Tapered/Regular" options, which is perfect for my foot. Went in and had them baked today by Dave aka beerleaguecaptain and I'll give them a shot on the ice tomorrow night, so far they feel awesome.

It's very much in the spirit of MSH's DBs. The closest thing I've seen is Icehockey360.ru's measurements comparing boot and holder dimensions for the sizes he was trying: https://icehockey360.ru/baza-znanij/geometricheskie-parametry-stakanov/ It's on the older side now, and there were some surprises in there which makes me wonder about his methods. The general trend that emerges already in his measurements is that the industry was trending toward standardization. I think that process is now complete. True's new holder is supposed to be more in line with Bauer and CCM and I vaguely recall Warrior's skate representative saying on HockeyTutorial that their holder has the same pitch as the others. If those observations aren't mistaken, most of the value in the holder db would be to archive historical idiosyncrasies which have gone the way of the cookie cutter in recent years.

Reviving this thread as I pulled the trigger on Tackla 9000 pants recently. I'm almost 6' - 180lbs. Went with Med-50 Tackla size. This thing fits like a glove. My issue with other pants brands (CCM-BAUER) was the fit was too loose on hips and thighs. Pants felt unstable when skating at higher speeds. Quality seems pretty great for a $119cad pants (regular price advertised $200). Got to say I'm super happy so far. Protection is generous on hips but not annoying at all. Probably not the lightest, but weight isn't an issue.

I wanted to post this info somewhere online for any of those in the market for skates as this topic was dabbled on but no one had direct experience to compare one to the other. I took 7 years off playing hockey due to kids and my last skate I used and loved prior to the time off was a Bauer Supreme something or other with a techmesh style boot. I don't remember the model exactly what it was identical to what a One90 skate was a year or two prior. When I got back into hockey I purchased a new skate and opted for the Jetspeed Control 2023 skate (Special Make Up [SMU] skate for Source for Sports) as the one piece booth technology seemed more advanced than what Bauer was doing and everything tended to say stiffer is better. I never lace up my top eyelet and leave the lower portion of the slate just snug while the last 3 eyelets are done very tight to keep my heel locked. I played AAA and eventually JrA in Ontario as an underager when I was younger. I'm now 34, 5'9", 200lbs (at the gym alot, not a round belly) and would consider my skating style one with quick feet, agile and constantly moving my ankles to obtain decent edgework. In the past I always used a 9-10' radius pitched one degree forward and a 3/4" hollow. I'm currently playing 4x/week and coaching 4-5 days/week so the skates saw a good amount of use. The Jetspeeds were paired with Step Black steel and had a great heel lock and seemed to fit me well. The issue I always notice was that I found it harder to use my edges - to the point where I felt like I needed to go with a sharper hollow. This was odd to me as I never had this problem in the past, even when I was younger and only 175lbs as I hadn't filled in yet. I found myself running wide and bumping up against the boards, think of take a shot on net at speed, goalie makes the save and the whistle blows so you loop below the red line and come up the boards. I would tend to almost always run wide which never happened to me before. Since I had taken so much time off, I chalked it up to things like the wrong profile, my own technique etc. I chased various profiles (had three sets of steel) but never found my skates to be the same from what I was used to. I felt like my foot was too "locked in" and didn't have enough mobility - this didn't make sense because my ankle flexion was fantastic with the top eyelet not done up. After a year and a half of this I had the realization that maybe these one piece boots were too stiff compared to the Bauer's I was used to using. I didn't want to believe it as the only way to test that out was to buy a new pair of expensive skates while my Jetspeeds were still in great shape and completely broken in. I ended up biting the bullet and purchasing a pair of Bauer Vapor X Shift Pro's - these are Bauer's SMU skates for Source for Sports and Bauer's equivalent to the Jetspeed Controls I was using so it's a great comparison. At first I definitely noticed the lack of padding in the Vapors compared to the excessive amount in the Jetspeeds, they didn't feel uncomfortable, they just had less of a heel lock. Once tied up (again, skipping top eyelet) the heel lock was fine. I couldn't use Superfeet in the vapors which I've used for the past 2 decades, as it made my heel no longer lock into the Vapors, so I am currently using them with the stock insole. The first time on the ice, I realized the Jetspeeds were the issue and they were too stiff. I had a hard time in the Vapors at first as it felt like my feet were too lose and I'd be too much on my edge and almost slide out. A few times on these skates and I got used to it and now it's fine as the stability has come back. Let me be clear that it isn't the boot itself that is less stiff, the Vapors using the Curv carbon boot are a very stiff boot similar to the Jetspeeds. I think it has more to do with the one piece booth vs outsole. In the Bauer's it feels like the front half of the blade holder is actually flexing and bending, allowing me to use the outside edge more aggressively without having to have my body leaned over at an insane angle. This allows me to cut in tighter while keeping my upper body stable. The Jetspeeds felt like the front of the blade holder were so stiff that there was absolutely no flex between the booth and holder meaning it was harder to go onto your outside edge without fully leaning your body over at an aggressive angle to match the angle you want your skate/edge at. To me, this is the big difference between the one piece and traditional two piece booth design. For someone like myself who has spent countless hours refining their skating on a stiff boot with an outsole, this is how I have learned to used my edges, I cannot have my whole ankle down to the blade, locked in like a ski boot. For those North South skaters, I'm sure it would be fine, especially those that have always skated on a one piece boot. However, the difference between these skates was huge and it made me realize how much of my problems that I was chasing had to do with the booth design. I have used the Bauer's now for about 3 weeks and they are pretty much broken in now. Another issue I had with the Jetspeeds was that their front facing/eyelets are so stiff that they don't wrap around the foot nearly as well as Bauer. They tend to pull the whole boot in instead of wrap. On the Vapors I have, the eyelets are now nicely shaped around my foot much better. I do however think that CCM had a more durable boot design with their one piece booth construction, I would expect them to last longer. The Vapors anatomical toe cap is much better at reducing negative space around my toes. I prefer the minimalist foam in the Vapor, in my experience it is a less is more approach and I prefer it. The foam in the Vapor molded and shaped itself much faster and better to my foot after the original bake. Whereas the CCM has a lot thicker foam but it seems to be less formed to my foot when you look at its contours. I also prefer the longer tongue in the Vapors as I put my tongues under my shins and don't run very long shinpads (13") as I have them stop before they interfere with the top eyelet of the skate. In the CCM's, the tongue would pop out if I didn't make sure my shin pad was low enough when I taped them. Hope this review/experience helps people out there, I am convinced that the trend in stiffer skates is not necessarily a black and white thing and there are reasons why one or the other may be better. FWIW, I use a Quad Zero profile, a 3/4" Fire Ring on my Sparx and I am a size 7.5 Fit2 in Bauer, and a size 7 regular (D) in the CCM with the forefoot stretched out.

Round 2.