flip12

Good question. I'll explain how I've been plotting it in the blade space...To be clear, I mean the current P46, the ones labeled Landeskog or Bergeron depending on the model year of the sticks I've been seeing. Shape: If you compare the blade faces of the PM9 and P46, they're the two closest you'll find on the retail market. P46 is just a touch longer and has a toe-shooter's launching slice removed in a gesture toward the E28 but not as drastic. Lie: The P46 lie is just a hair higher than the PM9 on the toe-half of the blade, but the heel rocker and lie matches up almost exactly. Compared to a P88, there isn't the second lie zone on the P88 like there is on the PM9 or P46. PM9 is deceptively more rockered than it gets credit for. You can feel it when shooting with it versus the rockered heel then flat toe blades like the P88 or W10. The lie and shape for me are crucial. If a blade's not low enough, I'll have to chop my sticks so short, they're extreme to shoot with, so I look very carefully at the lie profile of a blade. The shape on the other hand does a lot for how the puck feels on the stick for me. I think it has to do with counterbalancing the blade weight and it's easier for me to do with a consistent height blade. The P46 matches the PM9 in those two respects much more than it does any other blade. Curve: P46 has the heel curve of the PM9, but it curves again around the mid-toe. I've curved some PM9's at home and the ones that don't break get smoothed out, with a more continuous or gradual curve, just like the P46. The blade face ends up roughly as open as well--that is, a bit, but not so much as an E28. That would really depend on how much you want to emphasize the blade opening up, though, and I personally just like it a little more neutral. Curve wise, I see why you'd put it next to the P88. There are a lot of similarities there. To me that sounds like what you're describing: a pro-made variant of a longer PM9. I've been wondering if it isn't originally Bergeron's pattern, actually. His pro pattern looks like a near neighbor to the P46, but I haven't been able to find many examples of game used or return sticks from him online. I know Bjugstad's supposed to be the P46's "designer," but hasn't he gotten credit for the E28 too, which also has an alternate origin story with either Kamil Kreps or Ovechkin by way of Kamil Kreps? I'm suspecting potentially another similar story. However, I wouldn't necessarily agree that its potential for being a pro curve that has trickled into the retail market is the same as it being more "pro" than retail. There are tons of pros who use tamer curves than retail curves. There are also many that use exact retail curves. There just aren't so many non-pros tinkering with their composite blades as there were non-pros tinkering with wood blades back in the day.

I'll get on it :)

Any potential for a P46? I've been hunting for a PM9/E28 without realizing that's precisely the P46. CCM's not going to keep it around much longer, I know it.

What were the hot spots or problem areas for you in Makos @ChrisB? A lot of people find them extremely comfy, except for maybe the arch. Not that that was its only problem area, but pain-wise, it seemed that was the most common.

A rapper once said: "Then you get your Master's. Then you get your Master's' Master's. Then you get your Doctorate..." I.e., the learning's never done.

That's what I thought. In that case, definitely, something around what would be labeled a 4.

Can you do a side by side shot with that and your lie-5 BM09? If it's close to that, then I'd be happy with the existing BC28. But if it's like the 28's I've seen from other manufacturers, they're not a 5 on the same scale as the E4/PM9 even though they're often labeled as 5's. If it's labeled as a 4 and has a lie similar to the E4, then I'd happily go for that. I don't care what the number is as much as I do the actual geometry.

Yes, times 10. In a little lower lie, on par with Easton E4. What they call a 5 on the E28 is closer to a 5.5: significantly higher than my Easton Malkin pros which are noticeably higher than the E4...I suspect they're similar to BASE's BC71: 5.25.

I was curious what Grant Cruikshank would wear this year. He's still got his Mako II's. Warning, huge photo. Good thing though, you get a clear shot of his skipping the top eyelet and lace locks on the third eyelets from the top.

Cool. That's significant enough of a mass to do some counterbalancing, definitely. I've tested on myself, and I seem to feel a counterbalance over 20g.

How heavy, would you say? Out of curiosity, could you measure the plug before and after, next time you make them?

I didn't read "has not been produced for a long time" as 'it's been out of production for a long time' or again in other words 'it has been a long time since it was last produced' but rather as 'it didn't have a long production run, (less than 5-years)'. Another consideration @marka, the CXN drilling pattern fits almost perfectly with other current holders, so a holder swap wouldn't be a difficult or necessarily pricey alternative. Just remember the pitch would change so you'd maybe want to add heel lifts to match the CXN if you did switch.

Not completely dead. I wouldn't count them out. They have some great know-how there. If only they can better swim with the current, they could remain a viable company. For years, they were a niche company with a great product. The North American based attempt to license their tech and expand production floundered, but that doesn't corrupt the kernel of what Graf is and what they offer. They still have a bit of market in Europe, certainly not what it was even in its pre-NA days, but perhaps enough to mount a solid comeback. I imagine Graf-CH has performed due diligence and figures it to be within reason to keep going. A joke isn't off limits to analysis. In any decent joke, there's a least a shred of truth, or a warped perspective of the truth. It makes sense to discuss it, especially in a venue where tone of voice is harder to grasp.

I picture Graf incorporating a less complete composite cup into their skates first, if they're to go in the speed skate direction. The general idea of how that is done is not exclusive to one or any other company. Their footlasts are already solid and a lot of their boots already so aggressively cut that they wouldn't be out of place with that addition to their already proven formula. Just my $0.02.

I'd love to see Graf come out with an integrated outsole and quarter panel. Maybe more like Viking speed skates than the full composite shells of VH and others. That would be an insane ride. They have the fit and flex down to perfection... Just, their efforts at modernizing with the Joneses have been subpar, to say the least.

They still had some significant pro exposure before the one90 hit. After that they lost all of the All-Stars that were wearing their skates, leaving grinders and fighters. VH has further cut into what little they still had.

Sorry I didn't see your post, as it wasn't up yet.

Can you be more specific? What didn't you like?

Is there a threshold for blade orders that could to met instead of the 24 OPS to trigger the release of one of these patterns?

That would be awesome @malcb33 I'd be happy with the Kreps, if only it were a little lower. If taking the E4/PM9 as the 5-lie standard, the Kreps isn't quite as low, even in its heel low lie area. I've noticed True and STX are labeling their Kreps as 5.5's. That seems more spot on. When I compared them in a shop to E4's and E6's, they were much closer to E6's, almost the same shape overall except for a pointier toe. I've seen some Kovalchuk pros on prostockhockey that look a lot like the old Warrior Smyth, which was rumored to be his 1/2" legal curve from early in his NHL days. No doubt he's also been using Krepsified versions of his pattern, but has he actually been using standard Kreps too?

I took that image and overlaid its Kovalchuk pro (green) with the Gionta and took another Kovalchuk pro (blue) and overlaid it with the original Kovalchuk pro. It does seem to match @malcb33's description. The blue Kovalchuk seems closer to the variant being floated as the possible BASE pattern. It looks to me like it's essentially the same blade face with just a different toe shape and toe height. It's a bit pixelated due to resizing to match the two different images, especially sensitive to longer, flatter curves, but it still gets the point across. This is exactly why I'd love the Kovalchuk side by side with a PM9. The difference is slight, but it may just be enough that it turns me off from the pattern. The closed toe is a bonus for me. E28 is a good alternative to my ideal curve, maybe not quite as good an alternative as the Kovy. It might just do the trick.

No, "Successor to the legendary 703 + 704..." so slim and shallow. Source: http://www.grafskates.ch/skates/grafskates-hockey/ultra/ultra-f-60/

There's been some discussion of the Kovalchuk pro in this thread but little is known about its specs beyond a few broad suggestions: big toe curve, rockered toe for heel-up snap shots, and a low lie. I'm all for supporting this pattern into production if its lie is in fact lower than most of the other stuff out there. Does anyone have some Kovalchuk pros by chance? If you do and wouldn't mind supplying some more info for the community interested in its retail availability, please help those of us out who are hoping it'll check the right boxes. I want to vote for Kovalchuk, but I want to know exactly how it stands first.

Quote doesn't seem to be working, but the part about trying larger hollows: even some of an area's better local shops simply don't get it and treat you like a moron for asking for shallower hollows. FBV is a little more accessible maybe.

Some have.