The Things Customers Do

[Chadd 916]

I do that all the time. Sorry, but for something as important as feel when it comes to hockey equipment, I need to try things on first. If you want people to buy it in your store, then feel free to match the price I'll be paying online.

Don't be that guy, especially in this topic

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Don't be that guy, especially in this topic

Sorry, just being honest. If you have a better way to try before I buy, I'm all ears!

*edit* okay, you dont necessarily have to match it, but at least make it CLOSE to the price of the item+shipping.

Edited November 28, 2010 by IPv6Freely

[Secti0n31 0]

actually, you're assuming the player is getting all premium hockey gear, I got my set for around $400CDN, none second hand, only a few pieces of low-end gear

I'll agree with that slightly, I used to go to Windsor once a year because in Canada you can find off-brands, factory seconds, and pro-stock gear for peanuts in some places, but the $800 tag was very very VERY conservative and based on what I've spent since September on my mid-entry level gear set (which you can see on the 'post your gear' page). x60 or s19 stick=$200+ (and you'd damn well better have at least 2); Totalones, x60's or u+ crazylight skates = $600+, Any helmet worth a crap = $80 plus cage and the list goes on.

I'm not gonna harp on shop employees at ALL because the shop I go to has great people and very reasonable prices. I'm also not gonna give anyone grief for saying that a racecar or a precision rifle is more expensive than hockey gear, because they are; but that's a whooooole different kind of sport.

I figure in my area you could get bottom of the line gear (absolute bottom) for about $350. If you're a 10 year old kid make it $275.

[BenderHockey 127]

This isn't related to the hockey industry, but it IS customer related. How is it that you can call me for auto parts, with the car 2 feet in front of you, 15 "certifications" on the wall above you, and you can't answer the questions I ask you about the car?? Oh, you can't tell if it has 15" or 16" wheels? You can't look to see if it disc or drum rear brakes? Ok, I'll guess and send you a part, and wait for you to call and bitch because it's wrong.

I don't ask questions just to hear myself talk. Yes, sometimes what motor you have DOES make a difference in which brake pads you get. Don't be a dick, and just answer the questions.

[sogaduch 0]

Just had this happen yesterday, I was cleaning our goalie glove wall and we have a set of Bucky Brian's Zero G and some kid took it upon himself to write " I am Sam" and then just doodle all over it. Now the bucky material marks very easily with pressure so the kids probably used his nail to do this.Would of loved to have caught the kid in the act and told his dad or mom that well your kid just bought you a $800 glove and blocker set by doing that.

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

Sorry, just being honest. If you have a better way to try before I buy, I'm all ears!

*edit* okay, you dont necessarily have to match it, but at least make it CLOSE to the price of the item+shipping.

Well, considering that pretty much every manufacturer sets the price for skates at this point, any current year model skate should be the same price in store as well as online.

I went to a store in Southern California earlier this month and their top-end skates were $20 more than minimum advertised price. That's still fine, IMO - once you factor in the fact that you get them immediately (try doing that online), you get them sharpened in front of you (you either don't get them sharpened online due to return, or if you do, you'd regret it), and you'll also get them baked. NOT TO MENTION...if you blow a rivet or an eyelet...you just might get that thrown in down the road, and we'll be more apt to process your return to manufacturer if there is something wrong with the skate if you bought with us.

So, anyway, yeah, unless you're going to a store that is charging $75 more than online (factor in $50 overnight shipping, $5 sharpening, $20 bake), it isn't worth it to buy current-year product online anymore.

See how silly it looks now?

[flyers10 57]

Totally agree with JR. At my LHS you'll pay $15 for new sharpening and $25 for bake. So for new model skates with MAP restrictions you might save $5-$10 tops assuming you get free shipping and would have had to pay sales tax locally. Is $5 worth it when your LHS won't do warranty on those skates you bought online (mine won't). Or how they might charge more for normal sharpenings if you bought online? ($4 vs $7 at my LHS) That $3 difference can add up quick over time. Plus my LHS threw in a some socks & skate guards for me when I got my skates. And if I see a glove, helmet, etc for little less they will match if I ask. I can't really ask for more out of a local business. As for online I use it for old gear my LHS wouldn't want to still stock, new gear they decided to pass on for the season and looking for prostock gear.

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

Sorry, forgot sales tax, so take out $35-40 - so factor $35

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Well, considering that pretty much every manufacturer sets the price for skates at this point, any current year model skate should be the same price in store as well as online.

I went to a store in Southern California earlier this month and their top-end skates were $20 more than minimum advertised price. That's still fine, IMO - once you factor in the fact that you get them immediately (try doing that online), you get them sharpened in front of you (you either don't get them sharpened online due to return, or if you do, you'd regret it), and you'll also get them baked. NOT TO MENTION...if you blow a rivet or an eyelet...you just might get that thrown in down the road, and we'll be more apt to process your return to manufacturer if there is something wrong with the skate if you bought with us.

So, anyway, yeah, unless you're going to a store that is charging $75 more than online (factor in $50 overnight shipping, $5 sharpening, $20 bake), it isn't worth it to buy current-year product online anymore.

See how silly it looks now?

No I agree, if its close I'll definitely buy in the store, especially when you consider the cost of baking a skate that you didn't buy there (some places want upwards of $40!) its usually well worth it. Most of the times I go into a store solely to try something on it's because I'm doing research. Try on 3-4 pairs of pants at that store, maybe go to another store, and then get home and sleep on it and decide what I want. Then I order online because it's a two hour drive to the store, yet its next-day shipping if I order online right to my front door.

Unless you go to hockeygiant in Anaheim and they have so little in stock that you have no choice but to try on a higher model of the skate you want, and just pray that the one you order online fits the same way...

[pass the bisk 0]

I'm all for supporting local business and all, but buying online has too many benefits. Just looking at sticks, there are more options and they are usually a little bit cheaper. I buy most of my stuff from totalhockey and they give you free shipping so the $200 I spend on an x60 is actually $200. At my LHS, it would be around $215 with sales tax.

[danno25nh 3]

60 or so adult teams in town, quite a few youth teams and 2 LHS's neither of which carry more than a couple pieces of gear and zero upper mid-range gear.

Hard to be loyal when the LHS tells you to try going to St Louis or Chicago if you want to look at quality gear. I did stop at Total hockey in St Louis on the way through this weekend. The service was excellent. I bought a couple hundred bucks worth of stuff including tape, wax, etc that I could buy at the LHS but why put up with the aggravation of a kid that doesn't even play trying to tell me that the white tape is for blades and the black tape is for the butt end...it's sticky on both sides and helps you hold on to the stick...

I'm actually considering buying a trunk load of sticks and selling them to other players.

[pass the bisk 0]

60 or so adult teams in town, quite a few youth teams and 2 LHS's neither of which carry more than a couple pieces of gear and zero upper mid-range gear.

Hard to be loyal when the LHS tells you to try going to St Louis or Chicago if you want to look at quality gear. I did stop at Total hockey in St Louis on the way through this weekend. The service was excellent. I bought a couple hundred bucks worth of stuff including tape, wax, etc that I could buy at the LHS but why put up with the aggravation of a kid that doesn't even play trying to tell me that the white tape is for blades and the black tape is for the butt end...it's sticky on both sides and helps you hold on to the stick...

I'm actually considering buying a trunk load of sticks and selling them to other players.

Interesting that you say that because there are actually people here who do that lol. We have our lhs that never stocks good equipment then the next quality store is about an hour and a half away. Some guys will buy high end twigs then sell them for a little bit more to make a little profit.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Plus my LHS threw in a some socks & skate guards for me when I got my skates.

How did you manage that? I've never been to a store before that gave you more than you asked for... were you buying them anyway and they just said "dont worry about those", or what?

[flyers10 57]

How did you manage that? I've never been to a store before that gave you more than you asked for... were you buying them anyway and they just said "dont worry about those", or what?

Yep. I was ready to pay for all and he said you're good on the socks & guards. Usually when you buy a stick they will waive cost on something small you are buying with it and throw in a roll of tape and cut it if need be and offer to tape the handle and blade for you as well. It's not a ton but I appreciate the gestures and keeps me going back.

Edited November 28, 2010 by flyers10

[DarkStar50 679]

How did you manage that? I've never been to a store before that gave you more than you asked for... were you buying them anyway and they just said "dont worry about those", or what?

Well, if you start buying gear at the LHS, instead of just trying it on and leaving, the staff will get to know you. They will remember you as the guy who buys gear here, not as the guy who just tries stuff on and never buys anything.

[jimmy 194]

Nothing wore than some guy who does "research" at the LHS's, then buys online. And people wonder why their LHS no longer stocks high end gear. It couldn't be because DB's never buy anything, they just use them to fit, then buy online. Getting stuck with high end gear at end of season, only leads to a big loss for LHS owners. That's why more and more LHS's don't carry the stuff.

[danno25nh 3]

Nothing wore than some guy who does "research" at the LHS's, then buys online. And people wonder why their LHS no longer stocks high end gear. It couldn't be because DB's never buy anything, they just use them to fit, then buy online. Getting stuck with high end gear at end of season, only leads to a big loss for LHS owners. That's why more and more LHS's don't carry the stuff.

For the record, I personally would prefer to shop at a LHS. I nearly always support local retailers over large chains. Even at the cost of a couple bucks.

What I won't support is poor service and bad attitude.

[Lee-Bro 1]

Sorry, just being honest. If you have a better way to try before I buy, I'm all ears!

*edit* okay, you dont necessarily have to match it, but at least make it CLOSE to the price of the item+shipping.

The virtual retail & brick & mortar retail environment are totally different. Here are some things to take note of:

1) The LHS has to deal w/ theft of product.

--Most online stores use drop shipping or a much more rigid inventory control system.

2) The LHS has to deal w/ customers breaking, tearing, scuffing, etc equipment in the process of trying it out. This ends up as warranty claim, discount rack, or loss item.

--Online stores have this but at a MUCH lower rate. Must damaged goods are a result of shipping.

3) The LHS is limited in man-hours. This has two affects: 1)The store loses sales when "real" paying customers don't get serviced because the sales staff is helping an online shopper who's in the store; 2)The online store is always there. Buyers can check inventory, read reviews, get feedback, etc at anytime. The LHS can only do so during business hours or if lucky, they have info on their site.

4) Unless the LHS is a true brick & mortar, all sales require a person.

--Online stores give you the ability to purchase all the gear & accessories you want without the labor costs of someone to ring you up.

5) By their nature, a local LHS will sell only to their locale. An online store can sell to anyone they can ship to.

--This means different prices points for the 2 when buying inventory. The online store can buy & sell more, so they can get a better price break or other specials from their suppliers/manufacturers.

--This also means that when suppliers are blowing our their inventories, they will make offers and specials available to those who were their bigger buyers/customers initially. This gives the online shops first refusal opportunities for stuff that may never make it to the LHS for crazy blowout prices.

6) Space is limited for the LHS. Online retailers typically have much more space to accommodate older gear they are blowing out and new gear coming in. From my music gear days, the drop-ship catalog guys usually had 25%-50% of their warehouse space available.

7) The LHS can provide someone in person who can point out the differences between a 5100, 5400, 8500, 9500, or 9900 Bauer Helmet, tell you the history of Bauer, and all the other gear companies (most of the time). You're not going to get that 30 minutes of conversation from an 800 toll free number because it's costing them the long distance fees to educate you. You may be able to get the info in the email, but it's not real time w/ real product that you can touch, feel, smell, taste, try-on, etc.

8) and this is the biggie...Relationships are priceless.

I used to manage a drum & guitar store. I had clients for years and knew the gear they had. I also had "visitors" that never bought anything but maybe a pack of strings ($6-$12) twice a year, but came to the store every month to jam and see what's new. The clients from time to time would call me w/ a gear emergency. Those guys got loaner gear from the store, or I stayed late, or met them somewhere, or even lent them my personal gear. The "visitor" guys would call with an emergency (usually a warranty related issue) and even though it was an opportunity to turn them into a client by going out of my way (and money) to help them, I learned early on that if I didn't assess a service fee, I'd never get any business from them. I'd always explain that for items purchased at the store, we waive the service fee. Never lead any visitor-to-client conversions.

To this day, more than 15 years since leaving the music retail world, I still have drum & cymbal companies contact me about store recommendations and background info on musicians in my area. I also have working musicians who know I don't sell gear anymore still contact me about an introduction for an endorsement deal.

In the end, it's your money and your decision. Every purchase has a value equation. It's up to each person to reconcile their needs, their opinion, time, expectations and checkbook through that formula.

[Beflar 53]

I always go to the LHS for everything but, I do get mad when I see companies like Easton charging LHS in Canada more for high end hockey sticks! Then they make RULES refusing US stores to ship Easton sticks to Canada so your forced to pay 35% more for a high end stick because your Canadian... THEN they say it's because the US stores buy more sticks so they get the lower prices... So I'm suppose to believe they sell more hockey sticks in the US vs Canada?..

A lot of good will does get lost when your getting robbed. The Canadian LHS need to stand up for themselves because they end up getting some of the backlash.

End rant...

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Well, if you start buying gear at the LHS, instead of just trying it on and leaving, the staff will get to know you. They will remember you as the guy who buys gear here, not as the guy who just tries stuff on and never buys anything.

For the record, I've bought very little online. In fact I ended up buying everything that was "in my cart" in the store (about $600 worth in one day - a full set of equipment) instead because I just happened to be there.

Nothing wore than some guy who does "research" at the LHS's, then buys online. And people wonder why their LHS no longer stocks high end gear. It couldn't be because DB's never buy anything, they just use them to fit, then buy online. Getting stuck with high end gear at end of season, only leads to a big loss for LHS owners. That's why more and more LHS's don't carry the stuff.

In the end, people at the LHS should be happy that they were able to help me find the right pair of skates for me, regardless of where I buy them. Especially if they aren't on commission.

For the record, I personally would prefer to shop at a LHS. I nearly always support local retailers over large chains. Even at the cost of a couple bucks.

What I won't support is poor service and bad attitude.

I would too, if only there were any near me.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone in this thread, that wasn't my intention. I'm just a smart shopper and while I like to support a small local shop as much as possible, if the prices aren't reasonably close, I WILL buy elsewhere, and if that means online, so be it. I also think buying something that is so much about fit online without trying it on is stupid, so I need *some* way of trying something on, which is why I visit the store in anaheim whenever I can.

I also don't want to give the impression that I refuse to buy from a local store - this isn't the case at all. I prefer it, for sure.

[twolinepass 0]

We have 2 local LHS that are not attached to a rink owned by the Sharks. I'm all about supporting the local guys but I know the Sharks are not hurting for money. The only LHS that is worth going to is about an hour way and the service has gone way down hill. I was there a few months ago trying on skates and the guy who was helping me just disappeared. After waiting 15 min I just gave up and walked out as was walking to my car I saw the guy outside smoking.

[CAmmon 2]

In the end, people at the LHS should be happy that they were able to help me find the right pair of skates for me, regardless of where I buy them. Especially if they aren't on commission.

This has got to be one of the most ignorant comments on this board. Your LHS is a business, albeit if it is just a hobby to you. The objective of a business is to make money. If they lose enough sales to people with your mindset, they will go out of shop sooner or later. Where will you find a new fitting room then? Pardon the venom, you just seemed to hit a nerve.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

One of the most solid posts in this website's history!

I agree. Some very good points there! Should be stickied (and maybe cleaned up a bit, it's quite the wall of text to be blunt and honest), but very informative for sure.

This has got to be one of the most ignorant comments on this board. Your LHS is a business, albeit if it is just a hobby to you. The objective of a business is to make money. If they lose enough sales to people with your mindset, they will go out of shop sooner or later. Where will you find a new fitting room then? Pardon the venom, you just seemed to hit a nerve.

If you say so. Honestly, not my problem. The only reason I buy online is if the price is significantly cheaper. And even then, sometimes I'll buy in a store just to avoid the hassle of shipping stuff back if necessary. If your stores prices aren't remotely competitive, then I take my business elsewhere (not necessarily online, either.) So in summary, if your prices are even remotely DECENT, you have nothing to worry about.

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

In the end, people at the LHS should be happy that they were able to help me find the right pair of skates for me, regardless of where I buy them. Especially if they aren't on commission.

And this has to be one of the dumbest.

I'll take a piece of paper, write down all the stuff I told you when you walked in my store, and write "This helped IPv6Freely make his online transaction a successful one" and take it to the bank. I'll see if they'll cash that for me.

Being on commission has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it. You used someone's knowledge and you didn't pay them for it.

Unfortunately, a shop employee HAS to think that the person is ready to buy.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

And this has to be one of the dumbest.

I'll take a piece of paper, write down all the stuff I told you when you walked in my store, and write "This helped IPv6Freely make his online transaction a successful one" and take it to the bank. I'll see if they'll cash that for me.

Being on commission has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it. You used someone's knowledge and you didn't pay them for it.

Unfortunately, a shop employee HAS to think that the person is ready to buy.

Being on commission absolutely does have everything to do with it. The dude at the LHS doesn't make ANY more money by helping me than he would standing at the front of the store looking like a snide teenager. If the employees are on commission, sure I agree 100% that their time is worth something.

It's not a dumb comment, you just disagree with it.

This has blown into a much bigger deal than it should have. Once again, it's not like I don't buy from the LHS when its worth it (as in, weighing the pros/cons of online vs LHS for that particular item). Sometimes the LHS comes out on top, sometimes the online store does.