The Things Customers Do

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Why not treat the 'fitting fee' as a blanket credit? That is, if someone balks at the fee, you just explain that while it's meant to be put toward skates, you can use it on any product - laces, tape, etc. - just not services like sharpening and baking, so he can't give you $20, but them online, them come back and use his deposit on services that an online store can't provide. Hell, if you're feeling generous, let him put it toward sharpening and baking. So, in essence, a 'fitting fee' becomes a service deposit: if they use you as a fitter, a small part of their budget becomes tied to your store.

That's a neat idea, actually.

[danno25nh 3]

I'm happy to pay a fitting fee which is applied to my purchase. Assuming the fitter has a clue.

If so his expertise is worth something and he knows I'm serious and may pay attention and try to help.

If he's successful he has a repeat customer. It works for everyone.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

I'm happy to pay a fitting fee which is applied to my purchase. Assuming the fitter has a clue.

If so his expertise is worth something and he knows I'm serious and may pay attention and try to help.

If he's successful he has a repeat customer. It works for everyone.

It's a tough line to draw, that's for sure. You have to strike a balance.

[JoeyJ0506 192]

So, to build off of this, "late customer," issue I bring this to the table for consideration:

I sell cars, new Cadillac and Chevrolet, as well as an extensive preowned inventory. Our hours weekly are Monday & Thursday 9am-9pm, Tuesday Wednesday & Friday 9am-6pm, and Saturday 9am-3pm. We have what General Motors calls "Mystery Shoppers" to deal with. These are people hired by GM to come to our dealership and evaluate our skills as salesmen to ensure that customers recieve the proper buying experience. A bit stressful, but not an entirely bad deal. Now that you have that information...

I am the dealership's internet sales manager, handling all internet generated sales leads. I get a lead first thing Monday morning on used inventory. I responded letting the gentleman know our offer on the vehicle, and that I would be happy to set up an appointment for him to tour the dealership, test drive the vehicle, and then we can go from there if it is to his liking. I get no response and figure it was just another window shopper.

Friday evening rolls around and, at 5:45ish a gentleman walks through the doors waving a piece of computer paper around asking for the salesman that sent him an online price quote. I invite him into my office and ask him how I can help him he says that he is interested in the vehicle and would like to test drive, but that he is not interested in buying tonight. I grabbed the keys and a plate and took him out to SUV. After driving the vehicle we get back to the lot and the guy starts wandering around the lot asking about other vehicles. By this time it is 6:15 (I have plans at 7) The gentleman asks to drive another vehicle. While I go to get the keys I make a call and cancel my plans. This goes on through two more vehicles. at the end of the evening the guy doesn't ask to see quotes on any of the vehicles, says he'll be back tomorrow to talk numbers and hopefully buy. I leave the dealership a little after 8pm.

Next day, again, we are getting ready to go home for the weekend at 2:45ish. The same guy from the day before drives into our lot and asks to drive two of the vehicles from the day before. (I again make a call and cancel my plans for the evening... afterall the guy had said he planned on buying) Two test drives later we get down to numbers. After some negotions on the original vehicle the guy had inquired about we get to the point where the guy is ready to buy but needs to take the numbers home to show his wife. I shake his hand and then close up with my managers. It was 5ish.

Monday I leave a voicemail on his phone and send an email. Same the next two days. Thurday I get an email asking that I stop contacting him, the price was too high, and he bought somewhere else.

A bit later I get a Mystery Shop Evaluation with a not so great score back. Now, the names and some details are removed, but it does not take a genius to go back and figure out which customers these people were. This idiot had given me bad reviews because I had apparently "sighed" when he showed up on Saturday, and for "harassing" him with emails and phone calls. The kicker is because he was a mystery shopper he never had any intention of buying, wasted roughly 4 hours of my time, and had caused me to cancel my plans on two consecutive days.

No matter what, customers rolling in 10 minutes before close to initiate a process that routinely takes hours to complete is frustrating, but getting the sale at the end can lessen the sting. Knowing that someone very intentionally came in right before close never having any intention to buy, then had the nerve to submit a poor review... I would love to see this guy outside of work.

[jconc1941 0]

people rolling in 10 mins before the store closes are usually the ones that have not worked at a bussiness directly selling a product/service to a customer... if only every one got to experience that feeling lol

Edited July 30, 2012 by wex12
External Emoticons STILL Prohibited

[raganblink 82]

Story.

THAT is a raw deal. You have my sympathy for that experience. Personally that is BS that GM would do that to one of their own. I guess maybe their theory on that is that doing at the end of the day they wouldn't take away any sales for you? Either way nothing from that seems right at all.

I could never sell cars - the amount of window shoppers you receive is tremendous. There are just so many options between all of the companies, and then if you're in a decently sized town there are multiple dealerships trying to get your business, so even if a customer decides on a Ford F-150, there may be 2 or 3 other places in a close proximity that will probably get checked out to save a couple hundred dollars. When I purchased my last vehicle, I didn't do any of that stuff and it was appalling to me that I was getting recommended by friends and family to shop around.

Maybe next time pass on the bad luck to someone else (if they come in right before close & want to test drive) and say you have an emergency. Its dishonest but at least you wouldn't have to cancel your plans. How many people flake you guys in a week? Couple dozen? I imagine it is quite high with all of the competition/choices.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Hey, at least it wasn't the other way around. The local BMW dealer here flaked out on me three times. Told me the car would be there tomorrow, never happened. Told they found me a better car for the same price, and it magically was missing when I made it in to sign the paperwork, and then he started showing me other options. Like... where was the first car you promised to deliver last week?? Ugh.

[JoeyJ0506 192]

THAT is a raw deal. You have my sympathy for that experience. Personally that is BS that GM would do that to one of their own. I guess maybe their theory on that is that doing at the end of the day they wouldn't take away any sales for you? Either way nothing from that seems right at all.

I could never sell cars - the amount of window shoppers you receive is tremendous. There are just so many options between all of the companies, and then if you're in a decently sized town there are multiple dealerships trying to get your business, so even if a customer decides on a Ford F-150, there may be 2 or 3 other places in a close proximity that will probably get checked out to save a couple hundred dollars. When I purchased my last vehicle, I didn't do any of that stuff and it was appalling to me that I was getting recommended by friends and family to shop around.

Maybe next time pass on the bad luck to someone else (if they come in right before close & want to test drive) and say you have an emergency. Its dishonest but at least you wouldn't have to cancel your plans. How many people flake you guys in a week? Couple dozen? I imagine it is quite high with all of the competition/choices.

It is an issue that I am currently trying to work through with my sales manager and owner. They are having a hard time understanding just how readily available information and extremely competitive pricing are with the internet. In about five minutes I can have 5-10 different dealerships falling over themselves to get me their best price. Many of the same issues that are in this thread regarding LHS and the big-box stores are what I am facing with my internet sales position.

We are a small, family owned dealership that has been in business for almost 90 years. The majority of our salesmen have been with us for 15+ years and have built loyal customer bases that are going to keep coming back no matter what, but most of that base is, honestly, too old or set in their ways to utilize the internet to their advantage. My job, and my issue, comes from catering to my own generation. I am extremely comfortable with the internet, and so are my peers. Honestly, most of my customers tell me if they could get a car without ever setting foot in the dealership they would. They do not want to go through the hassle routinely associated with car shopping. So they take the 5-10 minutes to go on Cars.Com, TrueCar.Com, etc. and get me and the other guys doing my job to get them the "best price" we can offer, then they play our offers off each other. It is a race to the bottom, with price being the only deciding factor. We can all get the same vehicles, we all get the same manufacturer rebates. It is a matter of who is willing to go the closest to breaking even, and yes, even losing money to sell their vehicles.

This also leads to people using us as a "fitting room" to test drive a vehicle and have a salesman really do the job of selling the vehicle only to go hope on the aforementioned sites and put us all in a bidding war against each other. People will, without a doubt, drive 2-3 hours to save $100-$200 on their out the door price. Even if we offer better customer service, after sale attention, and service department. It gives me a whole new world of respect for the privately owned LHS fighting extinction against the Monkeys and Warehouses of the world. In much the same way my job is being threatened by the Super-Dealerships.

Hey, at least it wasn't the other way around. The local BMW dealer here flaked out on me three times. Told me the car would be there tomorrow, never happened. Told they found me a better car for the same price, and it magically was missing when I made it in to sign the paperwork, and then he started showing me other options. Like... where was the first car you promised to deliver last week?? Ugh.

That is the "Bait and Switch" routine. Unfortunately it is very very common in the automotive industry, and one that is encouraged by management. The idea is to get the person in the door on something that is too good to be true then either that mythical vehicle is "sold" or MIA. Hopefully you have them in the mood to buy and can sell them what you were originally planning to sell. Personally, I could not live with myself using the underhanded tactics I see a good deal of guys using. But, then of course, maybe that is why my sales manager and I do not exactly see eye to eye...

[HockeySavants 5]

It is an issue that I am currently trying to work through with my sales manager and owner. They are having a hard time understanding just how readily available information and extremely competitive pricing are with the internet. In about five minutes I can have 5-10 different dealerships falling over themselves to get me their best price. Many of the same issues that are in this thread regarding LHS and the big-box stores are what I am facing with my internet sales position.

We are a small, family owned dealership that has been in business for almost 90 years. The majority of our salesmen have been with us for 15+ years and have built loyal customer bases that are going to keep coming back no matter what, but most of that base is, honestly, too old or set in their ways to utilize the internet to their advantage. My job, and my issue, comes from catering to my own generation. I am extremely comfortable with the internet, and so are my peers. Honestly, most of my customers tell me if they could get a car without ever setting foot in the dealership they would. They do not want to go through the hassle routinely associated with car shopping. So they take the 5-10 minutes to go on Cars.Com, TrueCar.Com, etc. and get me and the other guys doing my job to get them the "best price" we can offer, then they play our offers off each other. It is a race to the bottom, with price being the only deciding factor. We can all get the same vehicles, we all get the same manufacturer rebates. It is a matter of who is willing to go the closest to breaking even, and yes, even losing money to sell their vehicles.

This also leads to people using us as a "fitting room" to test drive a vehicle and have a salesman really do the job of selling the vehicle only to go hope on the aforementioned sites and put us all in a bidding war against each other. People will, without a doubt, drive 2-3 hours to save $100-$200 on their out the door price. Even if we offer better customer service, after sale attention, and service department. It gives me a whole new world of respect for the privately owned LHS fighting extinction against the Monkeys and Warehouses of the world. In much the same way my job is being threatened by the Super-Dealerships.

That is the "Bait and Switch" routine. Unfortunately it is very very common in the automotive industry, and one that is encouraged by management. The idea is to get the person in the door on something that is too good to be true then either that mythical vehicle is "sold" or MIA. Hopefully you have them in the mood to buy and can sell them what you were originally planning to sell. Personally, I could not live with myself using the underhanded tactics I see a good deal of guys using. But, then of course, maybe that is why my sales manager and I do not exactly see eye to eye...

I believe this may have happened to me.

I had called my Honda dealership to setup an appointment to look for cars (they already had my financing setup and approved). They already knew I was looking for a Fit or Civic, but was looking at a certain Fit because of price.

I test drove a used 2012 Honda Fit Sport with not even 1200 miles they were selling for $16,500 (about $3,000 less than new). I also test drive a 2012 Honda Civic for comparison.

I was interested in both cars, but we were already set on the Fit (wife has one too lol) and had agreed on a price.

Another guy comes back and starts taking the Fit's keys away....

"Hey why are you showing him the Fit, another guy already deposited $500 on the phone 10 minutes ago, it's sold"

The dealer I'm working with then suddenly gets an epiphany almost "Oh ya that's right sorry guys"

We ended up getting the Civic, which I did get a decent deal in the end and much more roomy for me, but sure enough the Fit was magically sold in the blink of an eye.

[EvilPepe 24]

A question for those charging a fitting fee:

If you don't have the proper model/size in stock, and can't get it in a timely fashion, do you refund them money? I don't charge a fitting fee (but I rarely have problems with tire kickers), but if I did this would be something that would concern me.

Also, do you have a sizable amount of people (thinking recreational skaters and beginners in particular) who walk out after having it explained to them?

I don't necessarily have a point to make, only curious. We are in a rink that has a lot of "learn to" classes that happen on a rolling basis - always new people coming in looking at skates. I'd be afraid that the prospect of a $20 or $30 fee (realistically 1/4 - 1/2 the amount they wanted to spend out of the gate) would scare some people off before we could properly explain the importance of a well-fit pair of skates.

[EvilPepe 24]

Pepe, right there is the problem of MOST "mom and pop" stores; insufficient stock. If you don't have the stock, you cannot charge the fee, and then you'll have to decide on whether or not you are going to fit them.

I guess that is the crux of it then - what levels of stock are sufficient to support something like that. We generally have pretty good inventory for a non-warehouse rink shop, but there is always a hole here or there at some size of some model at a certain price point.

I do a lot of backpacking. In Florida, it is easier to find a good quality hockey stick than it is a quality backpack or tent (not Wally World or Sports Authority crap). There is one store within a two hour drive of me that carries a selection of such product, and they have a $30 fitting fee for backpacks (the fitting process takes just as long, if not longer, than skates typically do). I went in there recently to look at a certain pack, agreed to their fee, and ended up happy with a completely different pack (similar to you getting a completely different shoe).

Another customer in there at the same time as me balked at the fee, but ultimately agreed to it, specifically pointing out that he needed it before a trip that was a week away. Turns out they didn't have anything that fit him properly (and couldn't/wouldn't get anything else in within a week), but insisted on keeping the $30. The guy walked out down $30, without a pack, and still not knowing which pack would fit him properly. I was surprised they didn't refund the guy his money, especially since they weren't comfortable telling him which pack they thought he would be best ordering. I think any kind of policy like that involves a good deal of proper judgement on the salesperson and the willingness of the owner/manager to allow for that kind of leeway.

[iceman8310 105]

People that flex the sticks too the braking point then put the stick back. Also when they try on the display skates and leave them on the floor.

[Harv 86]

People that flex the sticks too the braking point then put the stick back. Also when they try on the display skates and leave them on the floor.

I once saw a high school kid come in, grab a Sher-Wood 5030, turn to his buddy and say ''watch this''. He starts cranking down on it and he went a little too far and it exploded all over the place.

Not pretty.

[hunt3rsean 44]

People that flex the sticks too the braking point then put the stick back. Also when they try on the display skates and leave them on the floor.

I don't understand why people do this. It doesn't take very much to figure out how a certain stick is going to flex for you. I suppose it's probably ignorance of the consumer at that point. They don't realize what they are doing to the stick.

[Chadd 916]

I don't understand why people do this. It doesn't take very much to figure out how a certain stick is going to flex for you. I suppose it's probably ignorance of the consumer at that point. They don't realize what they are doing to the stick.

It's usually kids grabbing a lower flex stick and trying to see how far they can bend it as a joke. They don't care about the stick, they just want to look cool in front of their friends.Hearing the crack and running out the door is just an extra level of asshattery.

[danno25nh 3]

It's usually kids grabbing a lower flex stick and trying to see how far they can bend it as a joke. They don't care about the stick, they just want to look cool in front of their friends.Hearing the crack and running out the door is just an extra level of asshattery.

With wooden sticks I always gave them a quick flex. Each one was different. When we'd order sticks by the truckload in high school and in the Army It was common for players to pick through and find 10 or 20 sticks that they liked and claim them.

Now that we have predictable flex composites there should be no need to flex them prior to purchase.

[jimmy 194]

And there's the problem. Now, you've alienated the client because you took his "fitting fee", and, you also didn't have stock. That decision, IMHO, is just bad business...

What would that same customer lose if he didn't have a local store to look at and try packs on and had to buy online? Return shipping, restocking fees, it's all relative.

[DarkStar50 679]

If we do not have the proper size in stock, we do not charge a fitting fee. Just the thought of parting with $20 has kept the tire kickers away. The tire kickers just want to get sized for high end skates. The people just getting started in hockey with their first pair of skates are in the ready to purchase mode. The fitting fee is not aimed at them and usually never even mentioned. Once again, experience in selling skates at retail gives me an idea with first impressions with a customer if they are ready to purchase or not. The fitting fee is not a hard rule. It just acts as a deterrent for the showroom shoppers. They want to treat it like a game of getting one over on the pro shop so we have just leveled the playing field a bit. Every situation is different and the smart salesman adjusts accordingly.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

They want to treat it like a game of getting one over on the pro shop so we have just leveled the playing field a bit. Every situation is different and the smart salesman adjusts accordingly.

I don't agree with the first sentence. I agree with the second one.

There are a multitude of reasons for somebody to get fitted and then not buy, and I honestly don't think "treating it like a game" is one of them. Certainly not usually.

I don't think I'd ever come back if I was charged $20 because I was still in the information collecting/research process, or if I wanted to sleep on the decision, or if I had to ask the boss back at home first, or if I wanted to try a brand that they didn't have in stock in my size, etc etc.

That being said, as you mentioned, the smart salesman adjusts accordingly. Sure, put the sign up. But then use your good judgement whether you enforce it or not. I think more often than not, you probably won't. But the sign is there for when you need to.

Sometimes I might go in to try some skates on to see if I like any (eg. I'd like to try the new Nexus line on). Zero intention of buying. But maybe I might save my pennies and come back in a few weeks and buy them? Again, if I were to tell the salesman "yeah I actually really like these, I'll be back on payday", I'd like to hope he'd use some common sense in his application of the fitting fee.

Yes, sometimes the customer doesn't actually ever come back. Sometimes you'll get burned. Its bound to happen.

I dunno. I guess the tl;dr point I'm trying to make is that every situation is different, and I'm not sure a blanket fee is the answer.

Edited August 1, 2012 by OptimusReim

[IPv6Freely 2092]

The thing is that you know when you have a tire kicker coming into the store. They're cocky, think they should be in the NHL, and talk a ton. A store, IMHO, ALWAYS has to mention the fitting fee, especially with those guys, and then explain how it works. I think if you have someone explain it properly and the store is adequately stocked, then a fitting fee shouldn't be a problem.

Well, thats why I say the employee should use their judgement. If tire kickers are obvious, then go nuts. I'm just saying we (customers) aren't all there to "play games" and waste the employees time, whether they buy or not.

So what's wrong with a fitting fee if you'll be back on payday and that amount is credited towards your purchase?

That's just one example out of many. I may have a legitimate reason for deciding to NOT go back to buy, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with being a dick.

Anyway, I apologize for stirring the pot. All I can do as a customer is try to be courteous and up front with my intentions. If employees want to think I'm a dick because I didn't buy from them, so be it.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

I think you put it best with regards to yourself..."All I can do as a customer is try to be courteous and up front with my intentions." I think if more people did that, maybe fitting fees wouldn't be a topic of discussion.

This is true.

P.S. Who cares if they think you're a dick?

I'd say I don't, but I also know that if they think I'm a dick, I'm likely to get crap service. So, I do my best to not be "that guy", and that's all I can do! :)

[jimmy 194]

If we do not have the proper size in stock, we do not charge a fitting fee. Just the thought of parting with $20 has kept the tire kickers away. The tire kickers just want to get sized for high end skates. The people just getting started in hockey with their first pair of skates are in the ready to purchase mode. The fitting fee is not aimed at them and usually never even mentioned. Once again, experience in selling skates at retail gives me an idea with first impressions with a customer if they are ready to purchase or not. The fitting fee is not a hard rule. It just acts as a deterrent for the showroom shoppers. They want to treat it like a game of getting one over on the pro shop so we have just leveled the playing field a bit. Every situation is different and the smart salesman adjusts accordingly.

Exactly what we do as well. if a mom comes in and wants skates for little Johnny's learn to skate program, the fitting fee is never mentioned. However, others you just have a sense, they are in for sizing and have no intent to buy. Mention the fee and they usually leave, then go prey on a chain store with kids working who don't care if their time is wasted.

[Winston 3]

A "fitting fee" will scare off the tire kickers for sure… and plenty of legit customers who don’t like sales pressure or obligation to buy, which is 99% of them. If someone tells me they’re charging a fitting fee, I’d walk out and go somewhere else, it’s that simple. Who knows if they have the right skate for me… or if they actually know what they’re doing when they fit… or if their pricing is fair… I might not even know what I want… these skates cost more than I wanted to spend... there’s a ton of uncertainty in the customers mind and dishing out $20+ more of a gamble to them than the shop. If you’re charging a fitting fee like it or not, you’re losing paying customers, but hey, at least you have more time to straighten the shelves, and help some kid buy some shin tape…

Edited August 1, 2012 by Winston

[DarkStar50 679]

I think after devoting 30+ years in this business of selling skates, I know whether or not my shop is losing business selling skates. We are not losing business. We are actually more efficient now as we can help the people who are ready to buy skates, equipment, sticks, tape, or just sharpen skates rather than spend 30 minutes to an hour on a tire kicker that spends zero dollars. If you want information for free, go to a library. The experienced skate fitter has knowledge that is worth money in his ability to fit you properly. But then after all the small shops are gone because of this threatening $20 fitting fee, the customers can spend the rest of their time hoping that those skates from the Internet fit correctly, are comfortable, come with straight not bowed blades, and can be sharpened correctly at the little old saw shop down on the corner.

[hockeymass 11]

A "fitting fee" will scare off the tire kickers for sure… and plenty of legit customers who don’t like sales pressure or obligation to buy, which is 99% of them. If someone tells me they’re charging a fitting fee, I’d walk out and go somewhere else, it’s that simple. Who knows if they have the right skate for me… or if they actually know what they’re doing when they fit… or if their pricing is fair… I might not even know what I want… these skates cost more than I wanted to spend... there’s a ton of uncertainty in the customers mind and dishing out $20+ more of a gamble to them than the shop. If you’re charging a fitting fee like it or not, you’re losing paying customers, but hey, at least you have more time to straighten the shelves, and help some kid buy some shin tape…

I think you might be putting a little too much importance on the term fitting fee.

Edit: my original post was a little hostile.

Edited August 1, 2012 by hockeymass