Sparx Skate Sharpener - At home sharpener

[dasuchin 20]

2 minutes ago, PBH said:

I am the source. I worked with Sparx on that. You're welcome. 

So if I'm reading this right, fire 5/8 would give me the same bite as 5/8, but the glide of 1 1/4? If so, that seems pretty legit and might be worth buying a ring for it. 

It's been a while since I've tried traditional 5/8, but the biggest thing I remember is having to put more effort into skating since it had noticeably less glide than 11/16. The bite was great on turns but I didn't like it as much on stops. I think I'm a better skater now though, so maybe it wouldn't be as big of a deal.

[marka 526]

Howdy,

25 minutes ago, dasuchin said:

I think ultimately I just need to buy my own Sparx so I have full flexibility of sharpening however and whenever I want. I was just interested in trying fire since they say the glide is improved.

Honestly, this is by far the best reason to get a Sparx.  Or really "your own sharpener", but I think the Sparx is the most accessible way for a home user to do their own sharpening.

Being able to sharpen whenever you want without leaving the house is freaking awesome.

Mark

[marka 526]

Howdy,

17 minutes ago, dasuchin said:

So if I'm reading this right, fire 5/8 would give me the same bite as 5/8, but the glide of 1 1/4? If so, that seems pretty legit and might be worth buying a ring for it. 

It's been a while since I've tried traditional 5/8, but the biggest thing I remember is having to put more effort into skating since it had noticeably less glide than 11/16. The bite was great on turns but I didn't like it as much on stops. I think I'm a better skater now though, so maybe it wouldn't be as big of a deal.

I think you're misreading that.

I think what they're saying is that a 5/8" Fire has the bite of ~3/4" and the glide of ~7/8".

For me, testing them back to back I found 1/2" Fire and 5/8" ROH to be nearly indistinguishable.  I've also used 5/8 Fire and now am using 3/4 Fire, but I've not done ROH above 5/8", so I can't compare the shallower Fire cuts to shallower ROHs.

Mark

[VegasHockey 1280]

8 minutes ago, pgeorgan said:

That's what I was saying, but @PBH Excel sheet says 5/8 Fire = 1 1/4" glide.

You are correct. 

[marka 526]

Howdy,

5 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

That's what I was saying, but @PBH Excel sheet says 5/8 Fire = 1 1/4" glide.

Ah, apologies. I missed the spreadsheet link.

Well, that makes me feel more encouraged about thinking I might try going back to 5/8 Fire.

Mark

[rh71el2 3]

On 10/3/2022 at 10:08 PM, marka said:

Howdy,

Ah, apologies. I missed the spreadsheet link.

I'm missing the spreadsheet link somehow... can anyone point it out?

[Vet88 674]

3 hours ago, rh71el2 said:

I'm missing the spreadsheet link somehow... can anyone point it out?

https://www.reddit.com/r/hockeyplayers/comments/d3s6hw/roh_vs_fire_depth_and_bite_angle_comparison_chart/

[marka 526]

Howdy,

On 10/3/2022 at 10:08 PM, marka said:

Howdy,

Ah, apologies. I missed the spreadsheet link.

Well, that makes me feel more encouraged about thinking I might try going back to 5/8 Fire.

Mark

So, I actually did do this... Its been a handful of skates now and honestly I don't think that if I hadn't done the sharpening myself I'd have know I went from 3/4 Fire to 5/8 Fire.

Does anyone know what the actual profile differences are between the Fire rings?  As I understand it, the Fire profile is just a normal ROH, with the floor of the U shape filled in.  I'm wondering if that's right at all first.  Second, if that's correct, is the "floor height" relative to the tips of the edges the same for all the Fire profiles?

Again, I feel essentially no difference between the 5/8 Fire and the 3/4 Fire on the ice.  I'm far from the world's best skater and this wasn't a back to back thing, however.

Mark

[dasuchin 20]

4 hours ago, marka said:

Howdy,

So, I actually did do this... Its been a handful of skates now and honestly I don't think that if I hadn't done the sharpening myself I'd have know I went from 3/4 Fire to 5/8 Fire.

Does anyone know what the actual profile differences are between the Fire rings?  As I understand it, the Fire profile is just a normal ROH, with the floor of the U shape filled in.  I'm wondering if that's right at all first.  Second, if that's correct, is the "floor height" relative to the tips of the edges the same for all the Fire profiles?

Again, I feel essentially no difference between the 5/8 Fire and the 3/4 Fire on the ice.  I'm far from the world's best skater and this wasn't a back to back thing, however.

Mark

I don't have an answer to your question, but I went from using 11/16 to trying 5/8 fire and felt zero difference. It's weird, in the past regular 5/8 felt way too sharp when it was fresh. But the 5/8 fire felt like it was the same bite as 11/16 but a little more glide.

[dasuchin 20]

Finally bit the bullet and got a Sparx. Is there any trick on setting the height of the ring? I'm not sure if I'm setting it too high or too low, or if it really matters all that much.

Edited November 5, 2022 by dasuchin

[VegasHockey 1280]

11 hours ago, dasuchin said:

Finally bit the bullet and got a Sparx. Is there any trick on setting the height of the ring? I'm not sure if I'm setting it too high or too low, or if it really matters all that much.

Personal preference. Have it come into contact with the steel where you prefer. This is for the previous mode, but it's the same theory:

 

[start_today 770]

On 11/5/2022 at 1:50 PM, dasuchin said:

Finally bit the bullet and got a Sparx. Is there any trick on setting the height of the ring? I'm not sure if I'm setting it too high or too low, or if it really matters all that much.

There are good how to videos on the Sparx website for where and how to set that. 

[colins 246]

On 11/6/2022 at 1:25 AM, VegasHockey said:

Personal preference. Have it come into contact with the steel where you prefer. This is for the previous mode, but it's the same theory:

 

 

Let your ears decide.

If you hit too high,the tension of the wheel against the steel will cause the pass to sound like it's dragging or non-uniform. If it's dragging, lower the wheel to reduce the tension/friction against the steel.

Adjusted correctly, a full pass should sound smooth and of uniform pitch. The wheel shouldn't slow down or change speeds (resulting in different sound) unless maybe it encounters a bad spot on the steel, which is normal.

Dial it in so each pass is smooth and uniform in sound front to back and you'll get a nice smooth finish on your blades.

[rh71el2 3]

^ Also awkward is which direction the skate sits in the machine in their videos... it's pointing left whereas I believe their support (or maybe even in the instruction manual) said to point it to the right.  Does it actually matter?

Edited November 10, 2022 by rh71el2

[Hills 712]

21 minutes ago, rh71el2 said:

^ Also awkward is which direction the skate sits in the machine in their videos... it's pointing left whereas I believe their support (or maybe even in the instruction manual) said to point it to the right.  Does it actually matter?

It doesn't actually matter

[blueliner4life 0]

Hi,  longterm lurker here. I just wanted to let you guys know, that I'm very close to reenabling cross grinding on the ES machines. I need to collect some more data now but I'm fully confident that I've a working solution going:-).

What I still need to validate:

- a used/empty/new ES cross grinding ring

- a used/empty/new commercial ring 

- a used/empty/new (5/8, 1/2, 11/16, 3/4) ES ring 

 

2. community members who are willing to send some screenshots from their smartphones/ or text editor^^:D

- In general as much ring data as we can get!!!! everyone who owns some of these rings can help by collecting data!

I'd also need someone who's willing to ship at least an empty/used/new (old) cross grinding ring. I'll pay for the shipping and for the ring in case it isn't empty yet.

I've my hands on three commerical rings already, but I still need to validate my results.

As I've said empty or nearly empty rings are good enough!

pm me anytime:-)

It won't matter if it's empty or not. That part has easily been solved:-)

Just to let you guys know. Before even thinking about releasing what I've found, I'll give the Sparx team a chance to reconsider their approach.I'd love to see them reintroduce cross grinding for all of us and I think Russ can pull this off! That's the only objective! 

I can't go into further details. My intend isn't/wasn't to harm their business in any sort or form. They fully deserve their success.

Exactly, as much as we deserve to get cross grinding back:-)

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by blueliner4life

[darkhors 88]

18 hours ago, blueliner4life said:

Hi,  longterm lurker here. I just wanted to let you guys know, that I'm very close to reenabling cross grinding on the ES machines. I need to collect some more data now but I'm fully confident that I've a working solution going:-).

What I still need to validate:

- a used/empty/new ES cross grinding ring

- a used/empty/new commercial ring 

- a used/empty/new (5/8, 1/2, 11/16, 3/4) ES ring 

 

2. community members who are willing to send some screenshots from their smartphones/ or text editor^^:D

- In general as much ring data as we can get!!!! everyone who owns some of these rings can help by collecting data!

I'd also need someone who's willing to ship at least an empty/used/new (old) cross grinding ring. I'll pay for the shipping and for the ring in case it isn't empty yet.

I've my hands on three commerical rings already, but I still need to vaiidate my results.

As I've said empty or nearly empty rings are good enough!

pm me anytime:-)

It won't matter if it's empty or not. That part has easily been solved:-)

Just to let you guys know. Before fully releasing what I've found, I'll give the Sparx team a chance to reintroduce the cross grinding rings for personal use. That's the only objective! 

I can't go into further details other than that I've done some reverse engineering:-). My intend isn't/wasn't to harm their business in any sort or form. They fully deserve their success.

Exactly, as much as we deserve to get cross grinding back:-)

 

OMG...I would absolutely love to get my hands on a cross grind ring. My life would be so much easier. Let me know if you need anything to help out. I have an ES100 and love it. Going on 4 years shortly.

[blueliner4life 0]

that's great to hear man:-) As I've said the hard part is done and I'm looking forward to either share my findings with the community or for Sparx to reenable cross grinding themselves.

All I need now is basically someone who's willing to ship his/her empty/used or new cross grinding ring. The original one! not  the (XG 1,2,3...) commercial version!

 

I'll send it back no matter what, and I won't damage the ring :D

 

 An empty ring is perfectly fine. Finally, collecting lots of ring data would be beneficial as well.

The original cross grinding ring is key to being able to compare the stored data with the commercial version!!!

 

All that's left to do is to fully understand the data that's stored on the cross grinding rings. Fire and radius rings are working already but that'S not the main objective and I can't make that publicly for safety reasons. The main objective must be to get cross grinding enabled! I know (but can't publish yet) how the detection is working:D

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by blueliner4life

[IPv6Freely 2092]

I still have a XG ring from when I bought my Sparx on Kickstarter. 

I don't quite understand how you're going to re-enable XG without them making XG rings? 

[SparxHockey 30]

Hi everyone, Russ here from Sparx Hockey.

The topic of the Cross Grind Ring and our consumer machines has been raised before here on ModSquad and there’s been quite a bit of inaccurate information to why that decision was made. I thought it was important for me to jump in here and explain why cross grinding is not available on the at-home Sparx Sharpener.

Below, I will go into quite a bit of detail, but here is an overview for those looking for the quick answer!

1)      First things first – do not ruin your Sparx Sharpener by modifying it to do something that it was not manufactured to do. Not only will modifying it instantly void the warranty, it will most likely damage the machine and alter the high-level of precision that has become the hallmark of the Sparx Sharpener.

2)      When you purchase a Sparx Sharpener, you are investing in years and years of research, design and development. We have spent literally thousands of hours testing our products – both in real world and laboratory settings. We take those in-depth learnings to make the most accurate, safe and easy-to-use automated skate sharpening products on the market.

3)      The on-board dust management system of the Sparx Sharpener is one of the most important aspects of the machine. Said as simple as possible – if you want a small format (i.e. portable) skate sharpener WITH this important dust handling feature, cross grinding is simply not an option.

 4)      The real need to cross grind is very limited for the at-home home user. The main reason our commercial customers use cross grinding is to prep new steel and in that rare instance when an at-home user needs to sharpen new steel, it can easily be done with a traditional Sparx Grinding Ring. Also, the increased cost of the Cross Grind Ring simply does not make financial sense for 99% of home users. If you think you must have cross-grind capabilities, you should update to the Sparx Commercial Sharpener or visit your local shop.

Ok, now here’s the FULL story:

As engineers at Sparx Hockey, we are tasked with designing our products to be the very best for our customers.  This is very important to us since many of us at Sparx are the customer and use our own products every week for our own families.

The Cross Grind Ring was initially launched with the First Generation Sparx Sharpener.  When we did our detailed and in-depth research before launching the company, we quickly realized that all other home sharpeners in the market were being run without dust collection capabilities.   This seemed crazy to us as the metal dust (called swarf) that's generated from the sharpening process needs to be captured for obvious reasons. How could someone design an at-home sharpener where the dust isn't captured and disperses throughout the air, especially when those sharpeners were going to be placed inside homes and locker rooms?  We were not going to allow that to happen with the Sparx Sharpener.

From this important observation, we made the decision to integrate a HEPA filter into the Sparx Sharpener. We did in-depth (and expensive!) testing at external labs to make sure our chosen filter material captured the particle sizes that were generated. 

When we released the first generation Sparx Sharpener, we noticed many users were not replacing their filters on time.  While some people figured they could save a little money by not replacing the filter, not replacing the filter causes the filter to lose its effectiveness, among other things, when they get clogged with the swarf.  It is important to replace your filter when it expires. As it relates to the Cross-Grind ring and the filter – an important observation from real-world use was that swarf produced by the Cross Grind Ring was significantly bigger and hotter than the swarf created by the standard Sparx Grinding Ring.

As we always do in the product development process at Sparx Hockey, we took these important real-world details and behavior seriously.   From those early observations of user behavior with the first generation Sparx Sharpener, we determined that cross-grind swarf was not ideal in the consumer sharpener system where on-board dust collection is located within the immediate sharpening chamber.  As mentioned, on-board dust collection is a very important feature of the Sparx Sharpener.  Beware of sharpeners that don’t have onboard dust collection – this just doesn’t make sense for many reasons.  The only choice we had was to move the cross-grind ring, which is mostly necessary in the commercial setting anyway, over to a new sharpener platform - the Sparx Commercial Sharpener.

The Sparx Commercial Sharpener has a dust collection system specifically designed to handle the larger cross-grind swarf.  A standard Shop-Vac is NOT an acceptable alternative to the Sparx Commercial Vacuum that all Sparx Commercial Sharpeners utilize.  Shop-Vacs are not designed to handle sharpening swarf and they most likely aren't designed/tested to be HEPA compliant. The Sparx Commercial Vacuum has a metal-lined collection tube and a filter specifically designed for these types of environments.  If you absolutely want a Sparx Cross Grind and you don't want to buy the commercial sharpener, we strongly recommend visiting your local hockey shop for those very, very rare instances when you might need a cross grind. Sparx Sharpeners are now used in well over a thousand hockey retail locations around the world and there's a very good chance your local hockey shop is using the Sparx Commercial Sharpener.

I hope this helps explain why the Cross Grind Ring went away from the at-home, consumer machine.  For the very few times you'll actually need a cross grind in the consumer world, just remember that the cross grind is simply  a coarser abrasive.  You can achieve similar results with a standard Sparx Grinding Ring by adding a few more cycles (roughly 3:1 standard to cross grind is the ratio).

 Happy Sharpening!

-Russ

[IPv6Freely 2092]

2 hours ago, SparxHockey said:

Hi everyone, Russ here from Sparx Hockey.

The topic of the Cross Grind Ring and our consumer machines has been raised before here on ModSquad and there’s been quite a bit of inaccurate information to why that decision was made. I thought it was important for me to jump in here and explain why cross grinding is not available on the at-home Sparx Sharpener.

Below, I will go into quite a bit of detail, but here is an overview for those looking for the quick answer!

1)      First things first – do not ruin your Sparx Sharpener by modifying it to do something that it was not manufactured to do. Not only will modifying it instantly void the warranty, it will most likely damage the machine and alter the high-level of precision that has become the hallmark of the Sparx Sharpener.

2)      When you purchase a Sparx Sharpener, you are investing in years and years of research, design and development. We have spent literally thousands of hours testing our products – both in real world and laboratory settings. We take those in-depth learnings to make the most accurate, safe and easy-to-use automated skate sharpening products on the market.

3)      The on-board dust management system of the Sparx Sharpener is one of the most important aspects of the machine. Said as simple as possible – if you want a small format (i.e. portable) skate sharpener WITH this important dust handling feature, cross grinding is simply not an option.

 4)      The real need to cross grind is very limited for the at-home home user. The main reason our commercial customers use cross grinding is to prep new steel and in that rare instance when an at-home user needs to sharpen new steel, it can easily be done with a traditional Sparx Grinding Ring. Also, the increased cost of the Cross Grind Ring simply does not make financial sense for 99% of home users. If you think you must have cross-grind capabilities, you should update to the Sparx Commercial Sharpener or visit your local shop.

Ok, now here’s the FULL story:

As engineers at Sparx Hockey, we are tasked with designing our products to be the very best for our customers.  This is very important to us since many of us at Sparx are the customer and use our own products every week for our own families.

The Cross Grind Ring was initially launched with the First Generation Sparx Sharpener.  When we did our detailed and in-depth research before launching the company, we quickly realized that all other home sharpeners in the market were being run without dust collection capabilities.   This seemed crazy to us as the metal dust (called swarf) that's generated from the sharpening process needs to be captured for obvious reasons. How could someone design an at-home sharpener where the dust isn't captured and disperses throughout the air, especially when those sharpeners were going to be placed inside homes and locker rooms?  We were not going to allow that to happen with the Sparx Sharpener.

From this important observation, we made the decision to integrate a HEPA filter into the Sparx Sharpener. We did in-depth (and expensive!) testing at external labs to make sure our chosen filter material captured the particle sizes that were generated. 

When we released the first generation Sparx Sharpener, we noticed many users were not replacing their filters on time.  While some people figured they could save a little money by not replacing the filter, not replacing the filter causes the filter to lose its effectiveness, among other things, when they get clogged with the swarf.  It is important to replace your filter when it expires. As it relates to the Cross-Grind ring and the filter – an important observation from real-world use was that swarf produced by the Cross Grind Ring was significantly bigger and hotter than the swarf created by the standard Sparx Grinding Ring.

As we always do in the product development process at Sparx Hockey, we took these important real-world details and behavior seriously.   From those early observations of user behavior with the first generation Sparx Sharpener, we determined that cross-grind swarf was not ideal in the consumer sharpener system where on-board dust collection is located within the immediate sharpening chamber.  As mentioned, on-board dust collection is a very important feature of the Sparx Sharpener.  Beware of sharpeners that don’t have onboard dust collection – this just doesn’t make sense for many reasons.  The only choice we had was to move the cross-grind ring, which is mostly necessary in the commercial setting anyway, over to a new sharpener platform - the Sparx Commercial Sharpener.

The Sparx Commercial Sharpener has a dust collection system specifically designed to handle the larger cross-grind swarf.  A standard Shop-Vac is NOT an acceptable alternative to the Sparx Commercial Vacuum that all Sparx Commercial Sharpeners utilize.  Shop-Vacs are not designed to handle sharpening swarf and they most likely aren't designed/tested to be HEPA compliant. The Sparx Commercial Vacuum has a metal-lined collection tube and a filter specifically designed for these types of environments.  If you absolutely want a Sparx Cross Grind and you don't want to buy the commercial sharpener, we strongly recommend visiting your local hockey shop for those very, very rare instances when you might need a cross grind. Sparx Sharpeners are now used in well over a thousand hockey retail locations around the world and there's a very good chance your local hockey shop is using the Sparx Commercial Sharpener.

I hope this helps explain why the Cross Grind Ring went away from the at-home, consumer machine.  For the very few times you'll actually need a cross grind in the consumer world, just remember that the cross grind is simply  a coarser abrasive.  You can achieve similar results with a standard Sparx Grinding Ring by adding a few more cycles (roughly 3:1 standard to cross grind is the ratio).

 Happy Sharpening!

-Russ

Thanks for the info, Russ!

I also remember that when the decision was made to discontinue the cross grind ring for home machines that you guys actually sent out a free filter to all customers. The way you guys went above and beyond in the early days is, in my opinion, one of the ways you grew so well through word of mouth and cut through the doubters. I really need (want...) to upgrade to the new home sharpener. Would love the portability aspect of it to be able to sharpen for teammates in the locker room.

[dasuchin 20]

Ok I'm having a weird thing going on with the new sharpener. I've been using 5/8 fire. I did a fresh sharpen with 4 passes before my game last night. Toward the end of the game, I felt like the outside edge was completely gone. Just felt like I had no grip. I don't remember having this happen when using my friends Sparx.

Anything I should check to try to resolve it? I checked the alignment on the Sparx last night before I sharpened. I don't have an edge checker, wondering if maybe I need to pick one up, if it could be due to uneven edges?

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

1 minute ago, dasuchin said:

Ok I'm having a weird thing going on with the new sharpener. I've been using 5/8 fire. I did a fresh sharpen with 4 passes before my game last night. Toward the end of the game, I felt like the outside edge was completely gone. Just felt like I had no grip. I don't remember having this happen when using my friends Sparx.

Anything I should check to try to resolve it? I checked the alignment on the Sparx last night before I sharpened. I don't have an edge checker, wondering if maybe I need to pick one up, if it could be due to uneven edges?

Before you do anything, get a good quality edge checker.

[marka 526]

Howdy,

I 2nd the "get an edge checker so you know what's going on".

Did you use the 5/8 Fire with your friend's Sparx as well?  Same skates?  Just trying to consider other options.

Mark

[dasuchin 20]

1 hour ago, marka said:

Howdy,

I 2nd the "get an edge checker so you know what's going on".

Did you use the 5/8 Fire with your friend's Sparx as well?  Same skates?  Just trying to consider other options.

Mark

Yeah, I used 5/8 fire (different ring, I bought a new one for mine), same skates.

I'll grab an edge checker and see if that's part of the issue.