VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[Vet88 674]

13 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

maybe going back old school and actually taking measurements of the ankle instep etc.  All would be compare to the scan to ensure everything is accurate, and reduce fitter error .. 

This. I would never, ever trust the scan on it's own. If there was one piece advice I could give to every person looking to get customs it would be this. Make sure you measure up your feet (ideally with a Brannock or something similar that will give you a correct foot length and width) and that the measurements are included in the notes. If the scan data and the notes / physical measurements don't line up then someone should be contacting you to sort things out BEFORE they begin the build. 

[Leif 161]

Another thing that might be worth doing when having a scan is wearing appropriate socks. I've noticed some allow the toes to splay, and some such as Bauer hockey socks pull the toes in as they seem to be made for narrow feet. This wasn't mentioned to me as I bought Bauer socks in the shop before the scan thinking they would be ideal. 

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

3 hours ago, Leif said:

Another thing that might be worth doing when having a scan is wearing appropriate socks. I've noticed some allow the toes to splay, and some such as Bauer hockey socks pull the toes in as they seem to be made for narrow feet. This wasn't mentioned to me as I bought Bauer socks in the shop before the scan thinking they would be ideal. 

Wearing socks? Where does it say you scan with socks on? Maybe this is why I have had so few issues? I always scan barefoot

[flip12 714]

Is it complicated to set up a fitting/scanning station, oth in terms of physical space and app-device calibration?

[Larry54 243]

1 hour ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Wearing socks? Where does it say you scan with socks on? Maybe this is why I have had so few issues? I always scan barefoot

That makes sense. Even before they started using scanning, I was advised to make the tracings and take the measurements barefoot even if I was planning on wearing socks with my skates.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

1 hour ago, flip12 said:

Is it complicated to set up a fitting/scanning station, oth in terms of physical space and app-device calibration?

I didnt think so. But lighting is key

[Sniper9 530]

2 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Wearing socks? Where does it say you scan with socks on? Maybe this is why I have had so few issues? I always scan barefoot

This. Bauer I know you wear socks. Ccm from what I can tell is no socks. True for sure NO socks. 

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

1 hour ago, Sniper9 said:

This. Bauer I know you wear socks. Ccm from what I can tell is no socks. True for sure NO socks. 

Do all of the scans barefoot, regardless of brand and/or scanner.

In my experience, all of the scans are more accurate when they're bare.  If you're told any differently, consider the source; chances are they're just looking for add-on sales.

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

3 hours ago, flip12 said:

Is it complicated to set up a fitting/scanning station, oth in terms of physical space and app-device calibration?

 

2 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

I didnt think so. But lighting is key

From the things I learned from my True fitter:

-Lighting seems very important.  Most stores have cool fluorescent lighting, which apparently is not ideal with the scan app.  My fitter kept saying the lighting in his Pure Hockey sucked for scanning.  (More recently, I've seen 2 other True fitters now with separate warm light lamps illuminating their scanning space)

-WiFi connectivity is important.  Apparently the scanning app works in conjunction with your network, not just when you're sending scans.  A weak signal could cause scanning app errors?

No idea for sure if this is true, but this is what he told me.

Just an aside, I wonder if True could switch to a more advanced process that would be way more accurate, something like motion capture they use in movies.  You could take marker "dots", put them all around both feet, and then scan.  This would I think reduce a great amount of scan errors, and is typically incredibly accurate.  I mean, this is primarily for motion, but it would work for still scans too.  My guess is the cost might be too prohibitive...cause I would imagine the big guys like CCM and Bauer would be using it already if it was cost effective.

Or maybe at least make the pad you put your foot on a more contrasting color to skin tones, like a mini green screen or something.

[smu 29]

9 hours ago, Vet88 said:

This. I would never, ever trust the scan on it's own. If there was one piece advice I could give to every person looking to get customs it would be this. Make sure you measure up your feet (ideally with a Brannock or something similar that will give you a correct foot length and width) and that the measurements are included in the notes. If the scan data and the notes / physical measurements don't line up then someone should be contacting you to sort things out BEFORE they begin the build. 

Definitely!

[Ashphil 0]

10 hours ago, Vet88 said:

This. I would never, ever trust the scan on it's own. If there was one piece advice I could give to every person looking to get customs it would be this. Make sure you measure up your feet (ideally with a Brannock or something similar that will give you a correct foot length and width) and that the measurements are included in the notes. If the scan data and the notes / physical measurements don't line up then someone should be contacting you to sort things out BEFORE they begin the build. 

It has surprised me to read about the couple of people on here who've had length issues with their skates, when the overall length of you foot is a fairly easy thing to measure (as a standalone value). When I had my fitting done, a True-branded Brannock device was used and pictures of my (bare) feet on this included with the rest of the information sent to True. How much this was used to cross-reference to the scans, I don't know, but when it's such an easy thing to do, I'd have to ask why it doesn't seem to be a part of all True fittings...

[Sniper9 530]

1 hour ago, Ashphil said:

It has surprised me to read about the couple of people on here who've had length issues with their skates, when the overall length of you foot is a fairly easy thing to measure (as a standalone value). When I had my fitting done, a True-branded Brannock device was used and pictures of my (bare) feet on this included with the rest of the information sent to True. How much this was used to cross-reference to the scans, I don't know, but when it's such an easy thing to do, I'd have to ask why it doesn't seem to be a part of all True fittings...

I didn't use it when I had my scan done in the summer of 2017. But not sure if the true brannock was even available then. But after that I started to see the brannock in pictures all over Instagram. Definitely should be used regardless of whether the shop has a true one or a generic one. 

Edited December 21, 2018 by Sniper9

[Leif 161]

18 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

This. Bauer I know you wear socks. Ccm from what I can tell is no socks. True for sure NO socks. 

Mine was a Bauer scan with socks, and Mark in the LHS is very careful. However, I think in retrospect ordinary thin normal socks would have been better. One advantage of Bauer, and CCM, is that you can try on stock boots to get a feel for the fit. 

One thing I noticed about my friend’s True skates is that they seem to grip the leg above the ankle, whereas my skates grip the ankle, but not the leg, which I feel gives me more freedom although it took a while to adapt. I certainly noticed it when going from mid range Bauer skates which grip the leg. 

[mojo122 535]

On 12/21/2018 at 5:04 AM, Leif said:

Another thing that might be worth doing when having a scan is wearing appropriate socks. I've noticed some allow the toes to splay, and some such as Bauer hockey socks pull the toes in as they seem to be made for narrow feet. This wasn't mentioned to me as I bought Bauer socks in the shop before the scan thinking they would be ideal. 

 

20 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

This. Bauer I know you wear socks. Ccm from what I can tell is no socks. True for sure NO socks. 

Misinformation.  When scanning for Custom Bauer skates the process is barefoot  with a very slight knee bend.

 

[Sk8Stk 39]

On 12/21/2018 at 1:06 PM, shoot_the_goalie said:

 

From the things I learned from my True fitter:

-Lighting seems very important.  Most stores have cool fluorescent lighting, which apparently is not ideal with the scan app.  My fitter kept saying the lighting in his Pure Hockey sucked for scanning.  (More recently, I've seen 2 other True fitters now with separate warm light lamps illuminating their scanning space)

-WiFi connectivity is important.  Apparently the scanning app works in conjunction with your network, not just when you're sending scans.  A weak signal could cause scanning app errors?

No idea for sure if this is true, but this is what he told me.

Just an aside, I wonder if True could switch to a more advanced process that would be way more accurate, something like motion capture they use in movies.  You could take marker "dots", put them all around both feet, and then scan.  This would I think reduce a great amount of scan errors, and is typically incredibly accurate.  I mean, this is primarily for motion, but it would work for still scans too.  My guess is the cost might be too prohibitive...cause I would imagine the big guys like CCM and Bauer would be using it already if it was cost effective.

Or maybe at least make the pad you put your foot on a more contrasting color to skin tones, like a mini green screen or something.

Wifi connectivity has no bearing on the quality of the scan. I have done numerous scans for Professional & Elite Level College & Junior players in rinks / locker rooms that had no wifi and uploaded as soon as I got back to the hotel. No issues at all. The only time internet access is needed is to upload the scans via email and create a profile online via True's portal. 

The scanner calibration app allows you to move the box being scanned relative to the actual subject. It takes some time, but ensures maximum precision of the object being scanned. This alongside communication with True in uploading of Test scans makes for a very thorough process, as long as you take the time to do so. This is more intricate than any motion capture protocol you might come up with since more human error is reduced. 

In my experience, as long as your lighting is not drastic, you will not have any issues. Obviously an area that is either too dimly or harshly lit will not allow the scanner to operate properly, but you will see that visibly on the screen because you will not be able to see the foot. Any neutral lit room with standard lighting will suffice. I have done fittings in store, at rinks, in hotel lobbies etc that all come out perfect. 

[Sniper9 530]

6 hours ago, Sk8Stk said:

Wifi connectivity has no bearing on the quality of the scan. I have done numerous scans for Professional & Elite Level College & Junior players in rinks / locker rooms that had no wifi and uploaded as soon as I got back to the hotel. No issues at all. The only time internet access is needed is to upload the scans via email and create a profile online via True's portal. 

The scanner calibration app allows you to move the box being scanned relative to the actual subject. It takes some time, but ensures maximum precision of the object being scanned. This alongside communication with True in uploading of Test scans makes for a very thorough process, as long as you take the time to do so. This is more intricate than any motion capture protocol you might come up with since more human error is reduced. 

In my experience, as long as your lighting is not drastic, you will not have any issues. Obviously an area that is either too dimly or harshly lit will not allow the scanner to operate properly, but you will see that visibly on the screen because you will not be able to see the foot. Any neutral lit room with standard lighting will suffice. I have done fittings in store, at rinks, in hotel lobbies etc that all come out perfect. 

Are you finding any issues with skates coming out as badly as SMU and the most recent post by d1ve

[flip12 714]

9 hours ago, Sk8Stk said:

The scanner calibration app allows you to move the box being scanned relative to the actual subject. It takes some time, but ensures maximum precision of the object being scanned. This alongside communication with True in uploading of Test scans makes for a very thorough process, as long as you take the time to do so. This is more intricate than any motion capture protocol you might come up with since more human error is reduced. 

It sounds like there’s room for operator error here if the calibration isn’t done properly. Is that accurate?

[Sk8Stk 39]

12 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Are you finding any issues with skates coming out as badly as SMU and the most recent post by d1ve

Personally, I have not had any issues similar to that in the last year or so. And in the last 3 years I have only had maybe 5-6 experiences like this. All of which were solved with a remade pair. Keep in mind I have been doing this a long time and am very thorough during the initial fitting and ask tons of questions, and pass on ALL information to the factory. From my experience, the skates are coming out from a quality perspective better than they ever have before, and they are also fitting people better than ever.

one thing I would like to add too, is that the skates did not come out nearly as well when we just did tracings and measurements. The fit of the skates improved dramatically once we switched to the scans, and I FaceTimed with True (VH at the time) during the introduction of the scanner and they showed me how accurate the software was compared to what we were using before. Please don’t underestimate the software we’re using just because some dealers may not be as thorough with the fitting as a whole. Expanding is always difficult, so I would encourage you to ask how many fittings your dealer has done before, and if the number is lower and you do not have any other options, try to involve yourself in the process as much as possible. 

[Sk8Stk 39]

9 hours ago, flip12 said:

It sounds like there’s room for operator error here if the calibration isn’t done properly. Is that accurate?

Calibration fine tunes the scanner, it’s a really easy app that is developed by the manufacturer to dial everything in. It really isn’t difficult at all, you just open up the app and move some things around until the colors overlap. I don’t think it’s user error as much as dealers might not take the time to do it. I haven’t done tests on how scans before and after calibrations differ, but one point to make is that the calibrator wasn’t even put into my hands until 200-300 scans in, and those scans prior still came out great. A good boot fitter will know what a proper scan will look like, and won’t let you put your shoes back on until they are 100% satisfied. I can do it in one try after doing so many fittings daily, but I encourage newer fit centers to not shy away from telling customers “that wasn’t a good scan, let’s do it again”. It’s possible they either don’t know what was wrong or don’t want to seem inexperienced, but this is a crucial quality control step when a perfect boot is the only important outcome. True dealers were all sent brannocks months ago, which should always be used in orders. This reinforces information supplied to True, and can also alert the factory to any possible scanner issues before a pair is put into production. 

[smu 29]

Expect the best!

Get the Brannock sizing done and send the simple foot tracing at least.

Your LHS should add in any other pertinent issues so discuss this part with them.

If the skates are an issue when received, immediately go directly back to True and they will help!

Alan

[CigarScott 132]

I had my feet measured in their blue Brannock when I got scanned andy first pair was too short. My second pair was better but still had issues with my big toes in both skates. It seems that True has a one toe cap fits all regardless of your footsize or shape which is why I'm intrigued by CCM offering multiple toe cap options, which I wasn't made aware of when I got scanned for CCM's. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

4 hours ago, CigarScott said:

I had my feet measured in their blue Brannock when I got scanned andy first pair was too short. My second pair was better but still had issues with my big toes in both skates. It seems that True has a one toe cap fits all regardless of your footsize or shape which is why I'm intrigued by CCM offering multiple toe cap options, which I wasn't made aware of when I got scanned for CCM's. 

I have seen True make toe caps from carbon for feet that specifically needed it that would not fit within the specifications of their standard toe cap design. They do not do this very often. 

[marka 526]

Howdy,

A local buddy just received his Trues and was initially raving about them.  A week later and I hear he's getting another pair made because these ones were too long and he started getting heel lift.

I'm sure there are lots of cases where their first pair is great, though.  Does anyone know the stats on how many pairs they remake?  And just how big is the profit margin on skates where they can afford to make two+ pairs per customer to dial in the fit?

Mark

[VegasHockey 1280]

7 hours ago, marka said:

Howdy,

A local buddy just received his Trues and was initially raving about them.  A week later and I hear he's getting another pair made because these ones were too long and he started getting heel lift.

I'm sure there are lots of cases where their first pair is great, though.  Does anyone know the stats on how many pairs they remake?  And just how big is the profit margin on skates where they can afford to make two+ pairs per customer to dial in the fit?

Mark

The profit margin on all custom skates is very low. If a manufacturer has to make more than a single pair of skates you can assume they are likely breaking even or losing money. 

[D1VE 9]

Finally made it into Pure Hockey to double-check against True's own brannock, as per instructed directly from True.

Lo and behold.....their brannock says 8.5 or just under. They made the skate from a 9 and stuffed the toe box.

Moral of the story: listen to the smart folks on this forum and don't depend solely on the scan! The more info they have to work with, the better off you'll be.

Funny little side note: the reps at the store didn't even know they had a brannock specifically from True, I had to insist they look for it for me. The amount of misinformation / general lack of knowledge through this process has been nothing short of astounding for a big box store. Wonder how aware True is that they're paying the price because people aren't properly trained from the get-go? Something to ponder.