VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[bunnyman666 445]

20 minutes ago, Cavs019 said:

My Bauer APX2 customs are flawless in terms of construction, performance, and aesthetics. And remain so 5 years later aside from normal wear and tear from puck marks et al. 

This isn’t an optimizer where you have to compromise on one dimension in order to nail the others. True just doesn’t have their sh*t together when it comes to QC on their finishes, end of story. Every other pair I’ve seen would have been sold as a deeply discounted cosmetic blem at a big box retailer if it were Bauer/CCM/Graf/Easton. 

For me, the most beautiful skates to me would be an old pair of leather Bauer Supreme or Graf, hands down.

I think once the bigs’ custom becomes more accessible, VH/True will have to up their game on the aesthetics. I chose True for one reason: I could not get what I needed from the big manufacturers in fit, at least easily and from a relatively low cost. VH did it for me. Are they pretty? No. Do they fit well? YES. 

[Sniper9 530]

Those who argue the sloppiness of the finish of trues, do you really think it's acceptable?  I can understand whether you personally care or not. But do you really think any company charging 1000 bucks for anything should overlook the details that true has... And this is on top of the complaints in fit etc as well. 

I've seen trues products in their sticks and protective gear and the finish is overall very good. So why is this level of QC overlooked with the skates?

[IPv6Freely 2092]

I personally just don't care as long as it's comfortable. But I understand those who do. 

[bunnyman666 445]

10 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Those who argue the sloppiness of the finish of trues, do you really think it's acceptable?  I can understand whether you personally care or not. But do you really think any company charging 1000 bucks for anything should overlook the details that true has... And this is on top of the complaints in fit etc as well. 

I've seen trues products in their sticks and protective gear and the finish is overall very good. So why is this level of QC overlooked with the skates?

It is overlooked to a degree because of the methods used in manufacture. This is a one-at-a-time method; now made several in a day most likely. You can “purty up” hand-laid and multi-piece composites; it just takes a LOT longer, and would weigh more. If there were moulds for every size and pieces were not interchangeable, the finish quality would be better.  I suspect that there has been zero evolution in build method since buying the process. My power skating coach has a pair of speed skating boots built very similarly, and they are not what you would call beautiful, but speed skates are most likely covered by a skin made of lycra coated with some aerodynamic treatment. 

As far as the recent fit issues I have read about, this sounds like growing pains for trying to make a one at a time process into a semi-production process. And Scott used to offer resizing, which essentially was building a new boot. And it doesn’t sound like True has gotten around the possibility of needing to re-build the boot. Edit: yes- there is an example in this thread about a boot being built a few times. But it seems that there are growing pains, none the less.

The stick building has little in common with skates except that carbon composite is used. True has had their stick factories for YEARS! Stick shafts are pretty well idiot-proof as far as how they are made and can be duplicated in infinitum. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by bunnyman666

[Giltis 116]

3 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Those who argue the sloppiness of the finish of trues, do you really think it's acceptable?  I can understand whether you personally care or not. But do you really think any company charging 1000 bucks for anything should overlook the details that true has... And this is on top of the complaints in fit etc as well. 

I've seen trues products in their sticks and protective gear and the finish is overall very good. So why is this level of QC overlooked with the skates?

I'd rather not pay extra for QC on appearance that I'm going to scuff up while playing.

I'm not trying to disparage your desire for proper finish and looks though, I understand what you mean, but it's not just me. 

[Sniper9 530]

24 minutes ago, Giltis said:

I'd rather not pay extra for QC on appearance that I'm going to scuff up while playing.

I'm not trying to disparage your desire for proper finish and looks though, I understand what you mean, but it's not just me. 

It's just weird how the finish can vary so drastically from one boot to another. My trues we're more or less flawless. Carbon was even with all the weaves uniform. The gloss on the finish was uniform and didn't have matte spots like the ones do now. And very minimal residual glue. Even the stitching was straight which from what I saw was a rarity. 

Only thing for mine were the one skate had the vent holes on the bottom of the boot drilled in by someone cross eyed lol. Which I didn't care about bc no one sees that. 

[Malarowski 12]

So are the current vh true skates as comfortable and good as the originals? Looking for an upgrade, but open to other manufacturers as well if their offerings are on par now. Any recommendations on that? I love how my vh fit, but they are falling apart slowly. 

[Leif 161]

10 hours ago, bunnyman666 said:

It is overlooked to a degree because of the methods used in manufacture. This is a one-at-a-time method; now made several in a day most likely. You can “purty up” hand-laid and multi-piece composites; it just takes a LOT longer, and would weigh more. If there were moulds for every size and pieces were not interchangeable, the finish quality would be better.  I suspect that there has been zero evolution in build method since buying the process. My power skating coach has a pair of speed skating boots built very similarly, and they are not what you would call beautiful, but speed skates are most likely covered by a skin made of lycra coated with some aerodynamic treatment. 

It sounds like Scott started out making very small numbers of custom speed skates, and then scaled up the process, whereas Bauer and CCM have decades of experience making large numbers of skates, including custom, and they have methods to do a good job AND make it look good. Perhaps as you say making them look the mutts would add significant cost. 

[bunnyman666 445]

15 minutes ago, Leif said:

It sounds like Scott started out making very small numbers of custom speed skates, and then scaled up the process, whereas Bauer and CCM have decades of experience making large numbers of skates, including custom, and they have methods to do a good job AND make it look good. Perhaps as you say making them look the mutts would add significant cost. 

Yes. That is definitely the intent I wanted to put out there. Scott was not a shoe maker, therefore how he approached the method of building is VASTLY different. They are not far off from some custom composite cycling shoes that were built a few years back. 

The actual method of building them would have to change to purty them up.  I have not reverse engineered my VH/Trues to the point of cutting them apart, but the build process they use and what Bauer and CCM would use are vastly different. I could probably build these after a few tries. I do have experience in composites, so I do NOT want to denigrade what the VH/True skate is. This is NOT some DIY project that would take the weekend to do and all of your supplies would be at your local Lowe’s. You would need a well-rounded composites background. Though a goalie mask maker with expanded composite building experience could pull off a True skate. 

[iceman8310 105]

Has anyone gone from the vh skate to the true and felt that the vh was a better skate?   personally the VH fits better than the True did.  I did the tracing with the Vh and the scan with the true

Edited March 8, 2019 by iceman8310

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

10 hours ago, iceman8310 said:

Has anyone gone from the vh skate to the true and felt that the vh was a better skate?   personally the VH fits better than the True did.  I did the tracing with the Vh and the scan with the true

The few people I know who went from VH to True have all said the fit is better with the Trues.  Most think it was probably cause the hand tracing method is more prone to error than the 3d scan.

[laserrobottime 149]

11 hours ago, iceman8310 said:

Has anyone gone from the vh skate to the true and felt that the vh was a better skate?   personally the VH fits better than the True did.  I did the tracing with the Vh and the scan with the true

This echoes my experience. The VH skates that Scott made for me were leagues better than the Trues I got recently.

[VegasHockey 1280]

From what I have seen the VH skates were more pliable than the TRUE skates and as such many people feel they fit better but did not last as long. 

[iceman8310 105]

41 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

From what I have seen the VH skates were more pliable than the TRUE skates and as such many people feel they fit better but did not last as long. 

The VH seems stiffer and a better put together skate to me than the True.  The true seems a lot softer.  The wrap, the feel, just overall a better experience for me on the VH.  For example the upper quarter on my trues is very soft compared to the uppers on my VH being stiff.  I have the first generation VH skate that says VH footwear

Edited March 8, 2019 by iceman8310

[iceman8310 105]

this may be in wrong topic but has anyone also used the Mako skates as well as the VH/True skates?  how did the two compare?

[althoma1 574]

17 minutes ago, iceman8310 said:

this may be in wrong topic but has anyone also used the Mako skates as well as the VH/True skates?  how did the two compare?

There's a thread from a few years ago that discusses that question:

 

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Huh I’m surprised I never replied in that thread. 

Basically, the massive step up in comfort from normal skates to Mako was about equally matched by going from Mako to VH. That said if the Mako still existed I’d gladly go that route to save $500. 

[Giltis 116]

On 3/8/2019 at 6:54 PM, IPv6Freely said:

[...] if the Mako still existed I’d gladly go that route to save $500. 

True skates are the most comfortable skates I've been on, but that said, if I can find something like the old Makos or Graf that fits 80% as good, I could see myself going that route as well.

[theinfamoust94 30]

My dad bought a pair of Trues and didn't like them; said they were too hard to put on. Bought some Supremes and gave me his Trues. Luckily for me our feet are very similar besides me having a flat arch. I've been wearing them for about 2 months now and while they started out painful in the arches, I absolutely love them now. I was very afraid that they wouldn't break into a foot that it wasn't specifically made for, but I was wrong. If they fit somewhat correct, they can break in and they are incredible skates. My hats off to VH and True for their hard work. 

[IPv6Freely 2092]

They are really hard to put on. I spot heated the top of mine to open it up, but still use a long shoe horn to slide my feet in. I get some weird looks still when I do it but whatever. 

[Larry54 243]

2 hours ago, theinfamoust94 said:

My dad bought a pair of Trues and didn't like them; said they were too hard to put on. Bought some Supremes and gave me his Trues. Luckily for me our feet are very similar besides me having a flat arch. I've been wearing them for about 2 months now and while they started out painful in the arches, I absolutely love them now. I was very afraid that they wouldn't break into a foot that it wasn't specifically made for, but I was wrong. If they fit somewhat correct, they can break in and they are incredible skates. My hats off to VH and True for their hard work. 

Even though your feet are similar to your dad's, you re-molded them to your own feet, didn't you?

[Giltis 116]

13 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

They are really hard to put on. I spot heated the top of mine to open it up, but still use a long shoe horn to slide my feet in. I get some weird looks still when I do it but whatever. 

I have to get mine on by putting in my foot sideways and then twisting it into position. I also use a shoe horn sometimes to help it along.

[CigarScott 132]

1 hour ago, Giltis said:

I have to get mine on by putting in my foot sideways and then twisting it into position. I also use a shoe horn sometimes to help it along.

Yes, you're supposed to use a shoe horn to put them on and take them off. They're a breeze to put on and take off once you start using a shoe horn; I keep a $2 IKEA shoe horn in my bag for this very reason.

[Sniper9 530]

I was surprised I never had issues putting them on and taking them off other than making sure the top two laces were undone and laces had slack. Never had to turn my foot sideways. My feet were always locked in too. I guess I'm lucky with how my feet are proportioned. 

 

[iceman8310 105]

5 hours ago, Giltis said:

I have to get mine on by putting in my foot sideways and then twisting it into position. I also use a shoe horn sometimes to help it along.

that's how you're supposed to put them on

 

Edited March 14, 2019 by iceman8310