TRUE TF9/TF7 skates

[VegasHockey 1280]

I personally like the SHIFT holder a lot. The only downside is the limited selection of steel available. I know Bladetech will be releasing steel for the holder soon and I hope Flare does the same. 

[JV23 12]

1 hour ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

I personally like the SHIFT holder a lot. The only downside is the limited selection of steel available. I know Bladetech will be releasing steel for the holder soon and I hope Flare does the same. 

When they do, I hope there’s more steel on them than the Step True for Shift holders...  after a profile I feel like there’s not a ton of life left on the blade...

[VegasHockey 1280]

4 minutes ago, JV23 said:

When they do, I hope there’s more steel on them than the Step True for Shift holders...  after a profile I feel like there’s not a ton of life left on the blade...

The new steel they have been shipping is significantly taller. Both the STEP steel (whats left) and the stainless and black steel.

They will also have DLC available directly from TRUE for the SHIFT holder sometime in 2021 as well.  

Edited January 2, 2021 by SkateWorksPNW

[flip12 712]

On 12/31/2020 at 9:38 PM, smcgreg said:

To renew my comments on this skate based on the experience with my son.  I guess I should mention his particulars:  15 yr old.  HS/AAA caliber.  Skates 5+ times per week.  Old skate is Mako.

So, we got him 6.5 TF9s for Christmas and determined those were too big.  So, we had to go down a size (or more, since the Makos were starting to hurt).  We went with 6s after trying 5.5s as well.  After baking he was thrilled.  They felt as comfy and well-fitting as his Makos.  So, he was excited to skate on them for the first time.  First impressions after the first skate, he was less than thrilled.  I've been very rigorous in keeping my expectations to myself.  I assumed there would be some major differences to deal with, but didn't want to influence his impressions and thought some things might be different, but better with adaptation.  Anyway....

1.  Boot was still comfy, so, no issue there.  Coming from Makos, that's a pretty strong testament.  Not one complaint on the first skate after coming from the most comfortable skate ever made... (retail).

2. Boot seemed heavy.  (I anticipated this one). 

3.  Said if felt like going from rollerblades back to ice.... no for-aft stability. 

4.  Turns were good.

5.  Shot sucked.  (again, I anticipated this since there is more height off the ice than his Makos).

6.  Said if telt like ski boots when you walk and you're kicked forward/pushed forward.

Differences that are obvious aside from the boot that can explain some of these observations. 

1.  Pitch seems aggressive on the TF9s.  We have been profiling the Makos with a negative 2 to reduce the aggressiveness of the CXN pitch and make it more like a Vapor.  Measuring with a tape measure, there is still an extra 1/4in difference from back to front vs the Makos, so, that explains #6 above.

2. It seems the stock profile is around 9ft?  Coming from an 11 ft on him Makos, that would explain #3 above, I think.  This might also explain why turns were better #4?  Shorter radius should make for better tight turns, correct?

3.  the height difference compared to his Makos is about 1/2 in at the back and about 1/4 in at the front (measure with tape measure, so, grain of salt).  So, this would explain #5 due to stick being too short. 

So.... it seems like most of the issues can be addressed with a profile (11 ft and -1 pitch) and lengthening the stick 1/4 to 1/2 in. 

The only issue remaining would be weight. .....  So, the dilemma is, stick with them and profile or start the search for a different skate that fits (tall order) and weighs less. 

Sorry for lots of words, but hopefully it helps others who may be dealing with similar issues. 

I'm curious to hear if the perceived weight changes once the blades are profiled. I've experienced boots that went from feeling nimble and responsive to sluggish and leaden from swapping out old for new steel.

[smcgreg 81]

4 hours ago, pucks_putts said:

If you read around on the True Custom / VH thread a lot of guys talk about how the Shift holders are actually quite different from the others. I don’t know much about the CXN but I know that the XS is designed very much like the Tuuks for the specific reason of how popular Tuuks are with pros. I’m guessing the CXN isn’t far from Tuuk either since they dominated that era. I can’t remember all the details but three of the key points are:

1) They have a very aggressive forward pitch. More so than any of the other holders. Combine this with the boot that also is designed for more forward pitch and personally I felt like I was falling forward all the time and though I somewhat adjusted it never felt right to me. 

2) The Shift holder is designed to put more steel under and behind the heel. Supposedly this is better for skating but again personally this was the most uncomfortable aspect for me. I felt like my toes were “hanging” way out over the front of the steel. Just not a good feeling for me and I “toe picked” a LOT amy first few times out. 

3) The Shift is a Symmetrical holder. Meaning there is no difference between the left and right holders. They have the exact same rivet pattern and “down angle” to the steel. There is a lot of science behind this part and I’m not sure if this really made a huge difference but some people on here says this changes the distribution of weight and downward force into the steel this affecting stride and balance point. 

Again, there are some much more knowledgeable people than I on here and I’m just relaying my personal experience. I can’t personally comment too much on #3 because 1 + 2 were so prominent for me. 

Lastly I want to add that I know a few excellent skaters that kept the Shift holders and like them. Upon asking they all said that it was a bit of an adjustment but that after a few weeks they didn’t have any issues. 

I think it may come down to trial and error unfortunately. Good luck and I want to close by saying that my True’s are the best fitting and performing skate I’ve owned and I’ve owned many. Absolutely love the boot and will never buy a skate that isn’t built off a mold of my foot ever again. 

1) Right, I addressed this.  That's a fairly easy fix if that's the only issue.

2) Ok, I didn't realize this.  Theoretically, if the balance point is correct, then this shouldn't matter.  Of course, not all things hold up in practice relative to theory. 

3) I'd forgotten about this.  I remember when it first came out, this was talked about, but I had forgotten.  I'll need to go back and learn more about this.

In closing, when I got Makos when they came out, I tried to adapt to the aggressive pitch becuase I believed it was supposed to be better for me.  I gave it more than a year and finally relented.  Once I went to a negative pitch on my Makos I was immediately better even after a year of "adaptation".  I'm old, so, it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, but my son arguably has more hours skating in his set up than I did before getting makos, so, he has some heavily ingrained preferences, which work quite well for him.

Thanks for the feedback and insight.  I'll need to look into the asymmetrical thing again.

[smcgreg 81]

9 minutes ago, flip12 said:

I'm curious to hear if the perceived weight changes once the blades are profiled. I've experienced boots that went from feeling nimble and responsive to sluggish and leaden from swapping out old for new steel.

Yeah, with all the negative comments, it was hard to sort the wheat from the chaff... 😉   He was so grumpy it took quite a lot to get all of the issues out of him in a specific manner for diagnostic purposes.  The one comment.... "he couldn't control them" makes me think you're right.  That after a profile and dialing things in more to his liking, they won't feel as heavy. 

Compared to the Makos though, they are tanks, so, I also won't be surprised if they still seem heavy.  It doesn't matter though.  He was going to have a broken foot sooner or later if he didnt' get another skate or start wearing shot blockers. The latter wasn't going to happen, so, beefier skates are a godsend in that regard.

We'll see.  Probably won't get profiled until midweek, so, he's back to Makos for a couple skates.   

[VegasHockey 1280]

2 hours ago, smcgreg said:

Yeah, with all the negative comments, it was hard to sort the wheat from the chaff... 😉   He was so grumpy it took quite a lot to get all of the issues out of him in a specific manner for diagnostic purposes.  The one comment.... "he couldn't control them" makes me think you're right.  That after a profile and dialing things in more to his liking, they won't feel as heavy. 

Compared to the Makos though, they are tanks, so, I also won't be surprised if they still seem heavy.  It doesn't matter though.  He was going to have a broken foot sooner or later if he didnt' get another skate or start wearing shot blockers. The latter wasn't going to happen, so, beefier skates are a godsend in that regard.

We'll see.  Probably won't get profiled until midweek, so, he's back to Makos for a couple skates.   

I'm kind of surprised that his Mako skates which are now likely water logged, weigh less than the TF9 still....

[hockeydad3 51]

Yesterday i had the chance to skate for the first time in my new TF7. All rinks are closed due to lockdown since mid of november. A small lake 40km away has build ice to skate on since last week. The ice condition was terrible and i didn`t skate since two months.

My former skates have been Supremes 180, 6.5D with a 11´ radius and a +2 forward pitch(Blackstone). They don´t have enough volume and they are a few mm to short. Lacing too loose my toes get squeezed and lacing too tight my insteps and arches get squeezed.

That´s why i´m trying the Trues. They are 6.5R and have been sharpened out of the box without profiling. I was baking them with the saran wrap method and they fit like a glove. I was trying to break them in at home on the carpet several times. They have a little more volume, are some mm´s longer and have a better wrap than the Supremes.

The skating experience was fine with good support from the skates and a little pain in my footsole. The length is ok, toes touching the cap while standing and not touching while skating or sitting. I´m assuming that they will give some more lenght and volume after breaking in.

Two things that i noticed: They are way more agile and a little less stable than my supremes, maybe due to a shorter profile. And they have less forward pitch than my supremes. Has anyone a definite information about the profile radius (e.g. icewarehouse says 9' & 10') and the pitch of the TF7?

At first i would give them more hours on the ice. I like the new agility, but would go up to a 10´ profile if the profile is 9´and add a +1 forward pitch if i can´t adapt. Or should i try a Quad Zero profile?

[smcgreg 81]

9 minutes ago, hockeydad3 said:

Yesterday i had the chance to skate for the first time in my new TF7. All rinks are closed due to lockdown since mid of november. A small lake 40km away has build ice to skate on since last week. The ice condition was terrible and i didn`t skate since two months.

My former skates have been Supremes 180, 6.5D with a 11´ radius and a +2 forward pitch(Blackstone). They don´t have enough volume and they are a few mm to short. Lacing too loose my toes get squeezed and lacing too tight my insteps and arches get squeezed.

That´s why i´m trying the Trues. They are 6.5R and have been sharpened out of the box without profiling. I was baking them with the saran wrap method and they fit like a glove. I was trying to break them in at home on the carpet several times. They have a little more volume, are some mm´s longer and have a better wrap than the Supremes.

The skating experience was fine with good support from the skates and a little pain in my footsole. The length is ok, toes touching the cap while standing and not touching while skating or sitting. I´m assuming that they will give some more lenght and volume after breaking in.

Two things that i noticed: They are way more agile and a little less stable than my supremes, maybe due to a shorter profile. And they have less forward pitch than my supremes. Has anyone a definite information about the profile radius (e.g. icewarehouse says 9' & 10') and the pitch of the TF7?

At first i would give them more hours on the ice. I like the new agility, but would go up to a 10´ profile if the profile is 9´and add a +1 forward pitch if i can´t adapt. Or should i try a Quad Zero profile?

I haven't skated on Supremes in ages, but given the measurements I made on my son's TF9s in conjunction with the rest of the comments regarding pitch in this thread, I'm hard pressed to believe Supremes have a more aggressive pitch than TFs.  I would skate on proper ice before increasing the pitch on them.  I'm sure others will chime in with more quantitative response, but the TFs (at least the 9s, I just got) have a very aggressive ptich.  In fact, the most common complaint I've read regarding the TFs is the pitch is too aggressive fore most to become comfortable with and switching to TUUK holders fixes the issue immediately. 

[hockeydad3 51]

Thanks for your advice, but the blades of my Supremes have a +2 forward pitch(Blackstone).

[smcgreg 81]

6 minutes ago, hockeydad3 said:

Thanks for your advice, but the blades of my Supremes have a +2 forward pitch(Blackstone).

OK.That's not a standard Supreme pitch, so, that gives more credence to your observation.   Makes more sense now.  From my measurements though, I'd approximate the TF pitch to still be +2 or more.  I was doing it at home though, so, again, people from a shop may have more accurate info. 

Good luck.

[the_game 452]

1 hour ago, hockeydad3 said:

Yesterday i had the chance to skate for the first time in my new TF7. All rinks are closed due to lockdown since mid of november. A small lake 40km away has build ice to skate on since last week. The ice condition was terrible and i didn`t skate since two months.

My former skates have been Supremes 180, 6.5D with a 11´ radius and a +2 forward pitch(Blackstone). They don´t have enough volume and they are a few mm to short. Lacing too loose my toes get squeezed and lacing too tight my insteps and arches get squeezed.

That´s why i´m trying the Trues. They are 6.5R and have been sharpened out of the box without profiling. I was baking them with the saran wrap method and they fit like a glove. I was trying to break them in at home on the carpet several times. They have a little more volume, are some mm´s longer and have a better wrap than the Supremes.

The skating experience was fine with good support from the skates and a little pain in my footsole. The length is ok, toes touching the cap while standing and not touching while skating or sitting. I´m assuming that they will give some more lenght and volume after breaking in.

Two things that i noticed: They are way more agile and a little less stable than my supremes, maybe due to a shorter profile. And they have less forward pitch than my supremes. Has anyone a definite information about the profile radius (e.g. icewarehouse says 9' & 10') and the pitch of the TF7?

At first i would give them more hours on the ice. I like the new agility, but would go up to a 10´ profile if the profile is 9´and add a +1 forward pitch if i can´t adapt. Or should i try a Quad Zero profile?

I'd recommend trying the Quad Zero Profile if you can. When I went from Vapors with a Quad Zero to True's with a Quad Zero the profile was much more noticeable on the True's in a good way.

[flip12 712]

4 hours ago, hockeydad3 said:

Yesterday i had the chance to skate for the first time in my new TF7. All rinks are closed due to lockdown since mid of november. A small lake 40km away has build ice to skate on since last week. The ice condition was terrible and i didn`t skate since two months.

My former skates have been Supremes 180, 6.5D with a 11´ radius and a +2 forward pitch(Blackstone). They don´t have enough volume and they are a few mm to short. Lacing too loose my toes get squeezed and lacing too tight my insteps and arches get squeezed.

That´s why i´m trying the Trues. They are 6.5R and have been sharpened out of the box without profiling. I was baking them with the saran wrap method and they fit like a glove. I was trying to break them in at home on the carpet several times. They have a little more volume, are some mm´s longer and have a better wrap than the Supremes.

The skating experience was fine with good support from the skates and a little pain in my footsole. The length is ok, toes touching the cap while standing and not touching while skating or sitting. I´m assuming that they will give some more lenght and volume after breaking in.

Two things that i noticed: They are way more agile and a little less stable than my supremes, maybe due to a shorter profile. And they have less forward pitch than my supremes. Has anyone a definite information about the profile radius (e.g. icewarehouse says 9' & 10') and the pitch of the TF7?

At first i would give them more hours on the ice. I like the new agility, but would go up to a 10´ profile if the profile is 9´and add a +1 forward pitch if i can´t adapt. Or should i try a Quad Zero profile?

A longer will likely fix a lot of your stability, since you’re used to longer.

I personally prefer 11’ over 9’ or 10’, but I skate ok on the others. I feel more in tune with the 11’ so I know what it’s like to not quite feel right on shorter radii.

Another issue of note: The True’s are shorter cut. It could be you’ll have a transition period where you adapt to their level and situation of support. True’s boots are more on par height-wise with classic Grafs like the 703 than what the other brands produce.

[smcgreg 81]

1 hour ago, flip12 said:

A longer will likely fix a lot of your stability, since you’re used to longer.

I personally prefer 11’ over 9’ or 10’, but I skate ok on the others. I feel more in tune with the 11’ so I know what it’s like to not quite feel right on shorter radii.

Another issue of note: The True’s are shorter cut. It could be you’ll have a transition period where you adapt to their level and situation of support. True’s boots are more on par height-wise with classic Grafs like the 703 than what the other brands produce.

When you say "shorter cut", you mean boot height?  I wasn't sure, but my son is coming from Makos and thought the boots were great and Makos are pretty low as well.  So, just wondering what that meant.

 

[flip12 712]

1 hour ago, smcgreg said:

When you say "shorter cut", you mean boot height?  I wasn't sure, but my son is coming from Makos and thought the boots were great and Makos are pretty low as well.  So, just wondering what that meant.

Yes, lower cuff height on the boot, about 1 eyelet lower than other brands, approximately. I think Makos are about the same as Trues, but I haven’t had my hands on more than one pair of those and can’t exactly recall how they stacked up side by side with my MLX.

Trues are the same height as my 703s but more stable in the ankle due to three main factors: 1. Trues are stiffer; 2. Trues have consistent spacing between the top eyelets where Graf had a 1.5x gap between the top and second eyelets; 3. Trues *usually have a closer fit, shrinkwrapped around the ankle while Graf had an extra layer of reinforcement around the collar of the boot, from the top eyelet on one side to the top eyelet on the other, ensuring ample room for ankle ROM.

 

*depending on how they’re molded.

[Vet88 674]

On 10/18/2020 at 8:51 AM, SkateWorksPNW said:

Ok, I am 100% convinced there is something crazy going on with TRUE sizing.

Here are pics comparing my TRUE customs vs a size 7R in the first photo.

The second photo is my TRUE customs compared to a size 6.5R TF9. Both have 272 holders. My custom skates are basically a size 7.25 when compared to Bauer and CCM. 

This is going back a few months but you say the 6.5R TF9's have 272 holders, is this right?

I got the following from True for TF7 and TF9, they have the holder size as 254:

TRUE Skate – Holder chart

3, & 3.5 - 230

4, & 4.5 - 238

5, & 5.5 - 246

6, & 6.5 - 254

7, & 7.5 - 263

8, & 8.5 - 272

9, & 9.5 - 280

10, & 10.5 - 288

11 , & 11.5 – 296

[althoma1 574]

Vet, the stock holder size list you posted is correct. SkateWorksPNW does have 272mm holders installed on 6.5 TF9s, but he added those after. It's not a stock setup, but the 272mm holders fit on without issue. That's part of the reason he knows that the boots themselves are sized larger than the size indicated on the tag vs. other brands and models.

I wear 8EE Makos with 272mm holders and tried on both 8W and 7.5W TF9 skates. The 8W TF9 was obviously too long. The 7.5W felt closer to the right size, but there's a chance I could even go down to a 7. I didn't get a chance to try on a 7 and don't need need skates right now; I was just curious and was thinking about grabbing these when I do need new skates. Anyway, I would have to go down a holder size (since the stock holder on 7 and 7.5, both wide and regular, is 263mm) and at least a half skate size (maybe a full size) vs. Makos. Hills also has a video (Hockeyreviews.ca) discussing the sizing and details how they're oversized: 

 

Both Hills and SkateWorksPNW have baked and used the skates; so they have a better idea of the sizing than I do since I have only tried on a couple pairs without baking them, but we all agree that they fit larger than other brands. The fact that they're so responsive to heat makes it even more challenging to figure out the size as the right size could feel too small before baking them.

Edited January 8, 2021 by althoma1

[smcgreg 81]

33 minutes ago, althoma1 said:

Vet, the stock holder size list you have listed is correct. SkateWorksPNW does have 272mm holders installed on 6.5 TF9s, but he added those after. It's not a stock setup, but the 272mm holders fit on without issue. That's part of the reason he knows that the boots themselves are sized larger than the size indicated on the tag vs. other brands and models.

I wear 8EE Makos with 272mm holders and tried on both 8W and 7.5W TF9 skates. The 8W TF9 was obviously too long. The 7.5W felt closer to the right size, but there's a chance I could even go down to a 7. I didn't get a chance to try on a 7 and don't need need skates right now; I was just curious and was thinking about grabbing these when I do need new skates. Anyway, I would have to go down a holder size (since the stock holder on 7 and 7.5, both wide and regular, is 263mm) and at least a half skate size (maybe a full size) vs. Makos. Hills also has a video (Hockeyreviews.ca) discussing the sizing and details how they're oversized: 

 

Both Hills and SkateWorksPNW have baked and used the skates; so they have a better idea of the sizing than I do since I have only tried on a couple pairs without baking them, but we all agree that they fit larger than other brands. The fact that they're so responsive to heat makes it even more challenging to figure out the size as the right size could feel too small before baking them.

To follow up on this and our sizing experience, again, my son is 6.5 in Mako.   We got him 6.5 without sizing, because it was for Xmas.  Out of the box he thought they were perfect.  AFter baking they were clearly too big. 

At the store, my skate guy, who is very good, thought that a 6 might even be too big, so, he tried a 5.5. ($$$ if only...)  Again, out of the box, the 5.5. actually felt perfect to him except for a couple spots that could have been locally heated.  After baking though.... too small.

So, he ultimately settled on 6, which he loves (boot wise), but the disconnect between 1) other manufacturers and 2) unbaked fit vs baked fit makes it imperative to actually try the things on after baking to assure correct fit.  I was very surprised that they got tighter after baking with the 5.5.s, but I guess that's a testament to the material used.

 

[VegasHockey 1280]

15 hours ago, Vet88 said:

This is going back a few months but you say the 6.5R TF9's have 272 holders, is this right?

I got the following from True for TF7 and TF9, they have the holder size as 254:

TRUE Skate – Holder chart

3, & 3.5 - 230

4, & 4.5 - 238

5, & 5.5 - 246

6, & 6.5 - 254

7, & 7.5 - 263

8, & 8.5 - 272

9, & 9.5 - 280

10, & 10.5 - 288

11 , & 11.5 – 296

I put 272 on my 6.5 TF9. They fit perfectly. From the factory they had 254. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

10 hours ago, smcgreg said:

To follow up on this and our sizing experience, again, my son is 6.5 in Mako.   We got him 6.5 without sizing, because it was for Xmas.  Out of the box he thought they were perfect.  AFter baking they were clearly too big. 

At the store, my skate guy, who is very good, thought that a 6 might even be too big, so, he tried a 5.5. ($$$ if only...)  Again, out of the box, the 5.5. actually felt perfect to him except for a couple spots that could have been locally heated.  After baking though.... too small.

So, he ultimately settled on 6, which he loves (boot wise), but the disconnect between 1) other manufacturers and 2) unbaked fit vs baked fit makes it imperative to actually try the things on after baking to assure correct fit.  I was very surprised that they got tighter after baking with the 5.5.s, but I guess that's a testament to the material used.

 

I would have stuck with the 5.5 unless they were so small they crushed his feet. Foams will break in and the 5.5 would have fit perfectly once they broke in a little bit.

I guess the good thing about a size 6 is if his feet grow at all he will have a little bit of space. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by SkateWorksPNW

[smcgreg 81]

14 minutes ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

I would have stuck with the 5.5 unless they were so small they crushed his feet. Foams will break in and the 5.5 would have fit perfectly once they broke in a little bit.

I guess the good thing about a size 6 is if his feet grow at all he will have a little bit of space. 

It would have been nice ($$), but 1) he said his toes were crunched.  For a kid going down two sizes from his 6.5 makos that he says are hurting his feet, it seemed risky.  2) He would have needed to go down holder size as well, which I've discussed before.  So, it just didn't seem like a good idea.  I think the 6s will fit perfect for a while. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

11 hours ago, smcgreg said:

It would have been nice ($$), but 1) he said his toes were crunched.  For a kid going down two sizes from his 6.5 makos that he says are hurting his feet, it seemed risky.  2) He would have needed to go down holder size as well, which I've discussed before.  So, it just didn't seem like a good idea.  I think the 6s will fit perfect for a while. 

Awesome. Seems to have worked out well then 🙂 

[smcgreg 81]

19 minutes ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

Awesome. Seems to have worked out well then 🙂 

Yet to be determined.  He hasn't had a chance to skate on the new profile (10 ft -1) yet.  I was hoping to get it out of the way before things picked back up, but skating got real busy again all of a sudden.  So, we'll see.

[hockeydad3 51]

Doesn't anyone know the original profile radius of a TF7 ice skate in size 6.5 / 254mm?

Is it 9`,10` or a 9`/10`double radius?

[VegasHockey 1280]

18 hours ago, hockeydad3 said:

Doesn't anyone know the original profile radius of a TF7 ice skate in size 6.5 / 254mm?

Is it 9`,10` or a 9`/10`double radius?

9/10 double