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Skate profiling recommendation for amateur player
puckpilot replied to vp1304's topic in Ice Hockey Equipment
Honestly, before you get into multi-radi profiles, you might just want to try simply going to a larger single radius and see what that does for you first. The mulitradius profiles tend to have smaller radius' on the toe, that's less steel up front, which you were saying you were missing. A single radius profile, like say a 12' or even 13', will give you more glide, more stability and more steel up towards the front of skate. I say this because the last time I got new skates I went from a size 5 to a size 4.5, and a lot of what you're feeling, I felt too. Some of it was just me and the flaws in my skating. Some of it was the change in skate. I went from the stock 10' radius to a 12' and then to a 13'. If it was available to me, I would have gone to a 15', but instead I went to a duo 13/26 profile because that was the only thing even close to where I wanted to go with my tweaking. Along the way I put a negative pitch on to things to help stop myself from getting up onto my toes too much and i went from a 5/8 hollow to a 1" hollow. Doing it this way I found made it easier to identify which direction to go with my tweaks because I was only changing one variable at a time instead of a bunch like in a quad profile. Now, there's no free lunch. To gain something, you have to give up a little of something else. Doing this I lost a bit of agility and acceleration, but over time, I got most of it back. It just took some patience and work. -
Mixing and matching steel, even if the profile is the same, is probably not a good idea. Millimetres matter. You might not feel any difference, especially if you're not being pushed to your limits and you remain in your comfort zone, but once you get put under presser, that's when the significance of the differences can manifest. Your body/mind is going to rely on instinct/muscle memory to react and do things and if that reaction is based on feedback from one blade, with instinct expecting the other blade to be the same relative height, that can throw you ever so slightly off. It might not be much, but it can be enough to lose and edge on a hard turn or pivot, or to lose balance during a challenging board battle. It's like cutting a quarter inch off your stick. During warm-up you might not even notice. But when shooting under pressure, you might whiff on a shot instead of driving it hard. Or when stickhandling in traffic, you might fumble it for half a second, enough time for the dman to step up and check you.
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I've taken the blades out of some old skates and tried some movements while standing on the holder where I supinate/pronate and straighten my ankles. Don't know the merits of it, but it did feel like it was working the muscles around my lower legs. I never felt like I was going to injure myself, but I made sure to stand on a rubber surface so there was less risk of slipping and there was enough room for me to just let go and fall. This product is actually something I've thought about trying to make myself. But that price, uggg. It's more than a lot of high end steel. Fifty bucks, I'd give it a go, but at $180, no way.
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Nothing wrong with experimenting, but tweaks in equipment ideally should be skill enhancers not skill changers. If it's a definite nope, then it's a definite nope, don't try to conform the player to the equipment, especially if there's nothing wrong. If there was something wrong, then maybe stick with it for a bit, but it's like they say, don't fix what ain't broke. For reference, I have an issue with my skating where I get way too much on to my toes. I'll spare the boring details, but what your son describes is what I feel. Well, what I used to feel. And that's not good. Would not recommend 0/10 stars. 😛 I experimented with profiling to help me a long, and each step of the way, I knew within a few minutes on the ice if a change was a step in the right direction. I actually ended up with a negative pitch in order to address things. So, I'd recommend just going back to what he likes. my2cents.
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New Skates for Continued Ankle/Lace Bite Issues
puckpilot replied to wedgylx's topic in Ice Hockey Equipment
First, try on every brand of skate you can get your foot into. Don't think just because Bauer worked for you before, it will work for you now. Skates are constantly evolving and so fit will change. For some the change may be insignificant. For others it can make all the difference in the world. Also, when trying on a skate, try leaving them on for around 10-15 minutes and walk around the store. That'll give the foams and stuff to warm up, shape to your foot, and will give you a more accurate feel for the skate. Second, how tight do you tie your laces? Over-tightening your laces can cause lacebite, too, regardless of if the boot is right for you or not. In terms of solutions. Why not just continue using the eyelet extenders? Another choice would be Option B skate straps. http://www.chooseoptionb.com/ For me, I'm a 160lb dude with size 4.5 skates. I use skate straps on the bottom part of the skate and I use eyelet extenders on the crook of the ankle. And overall, I have my skates fairly loose, so there's little to no pressure on top of my foot. For me that's solved all issues in regard to lacebite. -
As someone who has really small hands, I've found it's becoming trickier and trickier to find gloves that fit. It always feels like there's a push pull going on, and it's about finding a best compromise instead of a perfect fit. Also, to me, it seems like the leather stretches out more and more quickly and after six months, the fit seems to get even worse. With my current gloves, I've gone to only using two fingers in the glove, sticking two fingers into each pocket just to stop the gloves from slipping.
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IMHO, there are immense benefits to dropping eyelets. The better mobility you have in your ankles, the better you'll be able to align your blade to ice properly. The drawback is you will lose some support, and depending on how much you rely on the skate for support, the greater the adjustment it will be. That's the short of it. But there's more. If you're willing to go further, there's more to be gained by dropping more eyelets when practising. It's a whole new world if you can do this. For a while I experimented with not tying the top 2 eyelets during stick and puck. Eventually, I went to not doing up 3, and then, I finally tried with laces completely undone. Skating this way gave me better feel for the ice, how my edges were aligning, and helped me identify the flaws in my skating more easily and let me identify what I needed to do to fix these things. From the point I decided to go without lacing during practise my skating has taken significant steps forward. I'm almost 50. I did not expect to get much better than was. The more I practised without lacing up, the less tight I needed to tie my skates during games. For the most part, I really don't use the top 3 eyelets now, and I found with that much mobility I'm able to roll way over into a steeper angle on my edges and drop way more weight onto them when I'm crossing under and pushing off, giving me more power and bite. Now, this obviously isn't for everyone, and it took a significant amount of work to get here, which not everyone has the time to do. I goto stick and puck at least once a week to specifically work on stuff. Been working on this since before covid, but it was worth it in my eyes. The better skater I am, the longer I'll be able to play and maintain what I have.
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After years of trying stuff and nerding out about sticks, for me, there's only one thing that truly matters to me, and that's flex. Everything else is negotiable in my books except flex. As for everything else, with curves, it's just about what I like to do and which curve allows me to do that easier without giving up too much of something else. With shafts and kickpoints, I use to think it mattered a lot for me, but now, not so much. I find I can adjust to different kickpoints, so I don't worry about it. At the end of the day, as long as I have the right flex, I can use anything.
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I made the jump a few years ago from the p92/W03 to the p28. But I actually went back to the P92 for a bit before I figured things out and started using the p28 again. If your mechanics are off, it can be an unforgiving curve. Sometimes it'll launch the puck into the rafters. Other times, it won't even leave the ice. You really have to get your hands out in front of the puck to use the curve, and you have to get use to having the puck at the toe to snap one off. If you're not normally a toe shooter, there may be an adjustment period as you re-calibrate. There's also may be an adjustment period because they're generally different lies, with the p92/W03 usually being a lie 6 and a p28 a lie 5. Though the p92/W03 does come in a lie 5 in some cases. Good news though, there's a lot more flat on the back of the blade to work with for backhands. And toe drags are a little easier. One weird thing I encountered after Covid. After being off for so long, I was having issues shooting with the p28 for a while. Maybe it was because I lost a bunch of weight. Maybe it was because I was waaay rusty. I was struggling to shoot properly with the p28. It got so bad, I went back to the p92 again, and used that to shake the rust off before trying with to the p28 again. I definitely needed to tighten things up with my technique for things to work with the p28. Like I said, unforgiving.
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Yeah, for those prices, I'd rather just put that towards a new stick. If you're buying a clearance stick, that'll pay for at least 50% of the price. Honestly, for that price, and from the description of how the repaired sticks feel, it makes me wonder if you could MacGyver your own repair by simply using a composite, wood butt end or something similar. Chop the two ends of the stick so they fit flush. Take the butt end and chop off the part that fits into the shaft and used that to fit the two pieces together using some sort of glue. For extra security, you could drill a couple of holes and put a couple of small bolts through. It'll probably look ugly as hell, but would/could probably perform just as well as those expensive repairs.
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If you want the whole blade to any curve to sit flush against the ice, simply close the blade face. Which is something you generally want to do when catching passes and carrying the puck. It keeps the blade in a better position to shoot or pass off the forehand. Having the blade straight up at 90 degrees puts it in kind of a no-man's land.
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I went from the p92 to the p28 many moons ago. Tried the P90TM, and for me, it's been OK. When I compare the two, the p28 just does more of what I like in the toe area, and when I compared it to the p92, I preferred the p92. So, the p90TM got put away, for now. I'll probably give it another go around down the road, but for now, not working for me.
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New to skate blade profiling, where to begin?
puckpilot replied to ThisisBen's topic in Ice Hockey Equipment
It's not comprehensive, but here's a link that should get you started and informed in terms of knowing what's what. https://issuu.com/elinmalmsten/docs/script-tryckfilus But here's the thing, if you're expecting night and day changes you're going to be very disappointed. A profile is kind of like a stick curve, it'll help you do what you want to do, but it's not going to turn you into something you're not. There's no free lunch. You always give up something to gain a little more of something else. And the hope is what you give up isn't as significant to your game as what you gain. IMHO, if you don't have a specific idea of what you want to get out of a profile change, then it's a shot in the dark, a roll of the dice. It might help. It might make things worse. And one of the things about some profiles they make it easier to churn over your legs, and that can give you the illusion of being faster, because more strides right? More strides does not necessarily mean more power or the even the same power in each stride. It can be like changing gears on a bike. And I'm sure you've seen when people shift gears to go up a hill, they end up on a gear where they're churning their legs like crazy, but only slowly going up the hill. The biker is giving up speed for less exertion per push on the pedal, making it easier to get up the hill. Now, I'm not saying this is exactly what happens. There might not be any power loss at all. The bike example is just to illustrate a point. What I'm saying is if you switch profiles without an understanding of what each of the different changes is doing for you, specifically you--not what the marketing spiel promises--this is how it can fool you into thinking you've gained something when you haven't. When I started to look into profiles, I had a specific goal in mind of what I wanted help with, and I started with one change, going from a stock 10' profile to a 12'. And I went from there, making about a half a dozen incremental tweaks over a period of a couple of years to find the profile that was right for me. But that was just the start. Once I had the profile I liked, I had to roll up the sleeves and start working on using that profile as a jumping off point to addressing the flaws in my skating. I had plateaued in my skating, and the change in profile was a little kick in the ass so to speak that allowed me to start making progress again. It didn't solve my problems for me. I am a better skater for it, BUT am I a better hockey player? No, not really. my2cents -
I understand that, but don't you think its a bit unfair to point to the pictures I use and say they have flaws therefore they don't count. And then turn around and use pictures with just as many flaws in them to support a different point and say these count? That was the point I was trying to make with my follow up posts. Faded and overly dark pictures make it difficult to make comparisons too as well as photos with one stick tilted to the right closing the blade and one stick tilted left opening the blade up. And flawed as they are, I believe the photos I used illustrated the differences in the blades. But hey, that's fine. If flip12 and I don't agree, we don't agree. I did follow up with a post that agreed that pictures are flawed and if we can't use pictures to support our points, then we have to agree to disagree.
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Yes, I did look, and if you look at the top edge of the blade, specifically the heel, you can see it straighten and bow back out as it flips. It's most noticeable on the back edge of the blade. Putting in the p29 shows a transition from a heel curve to a toe curve, showing the differences and similarities between a heel curve, a mid curve and a toe curve, and see those differences and similarities migrate through a transition from heel to toe curve. Also the photos your using, I don't think they're any better than the ones I'm using. One's faded way out and one's way dark, making difficult to pick out the details and differences. The devil's in the details. Also, you did you look at the videos I posted and hear the part where the creator of the curve describes the heel as fairly straight?
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Like you said there can be confusion with using photo, and to be fair, look at the shaft angles on the photo you put up. The Kreps is leaning towards the right and the Drury is leaning to the left. Also, that Kreps curve looks to be significantly more open than the p28s in the photos I used. To me one of the things that's creating confusing is the open face of the blades. That's why I pointed out how the top edge of the blade looks in comparison. So I guess we can just throw out any sort of photo comparison then because, angles, lighting, etc aren't consistent across the board. So where does that leave us? Two men enter... and umm... stare at each other? :p Like I said, my experience is consistent with what I think, and its consistent with what the creator of the curve says in the second video I posted above, that the back of the curve is fairly flat. I mean, I just got back from stick and puck and shooting with a p28 for 2 hours, and I honestly tried, and it doesn't feel like there's any curve back there when I'm doing things. When you shoot, pass, etc. with the p28 do you feel curve back there? Otherwise, unless you have something else to offer up, we're going to have to agree to disagree.
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I can definitely see how you're drawing your conclusion. But IMHO, it can be difficult to pick out differences because in a static image broad-stroke similarities blend together and wash out the subtle differences. I went to this website Blade Pattern charts and used pics from there to make an animated gif flickering between a p6 and p28 to see if the differences became more apparent. Judge for your self, but to me, it looks like the p28 is straight at the heel. This is most apparent when we focus on the top edges of each blade and see how they differ. And this is consistent with my experiences with the p28. Whenever the pucks is on the heel--this is obviously subjective--but there doesn't feel like there's any curve to work with back there. And with the backhand, there's feels like there's more blade to work with when compared to my previous curve the p29.
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Not trying to start an argument, but I'm not sure that's how I'd describe the p28. I use the p28 and it's pretty much a flat blade at the heel. There's no curve back there, and I only use that part of the blade to stickhandle. You don't have to take my word for it. Here's a couple of videos of the guy who created the curve describing how it's intended to be used.
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Picture isn't showing up, but I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about. Unfortunately, that might be a tough find. They used to be available in stores and on eBay, But that was many years ago. On eBay, there only these left, a replacement for the lock that just turns the spot into a regular eyelet. https://www.ebay.com/itm/262975040573?hash=item3d3a88ac3d:g:Fp8AAOSwONBZESg1 If you have some local stores, try them. They may have some lying around. It's probably not a high demand item. Another thing you could try if you're desperate is to scour places that sell used skates, maybe even thrift stores, and see if you can find an old pair of skates with the locks on them for cheap and take the locks of them.
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I don't think it taught me to feel my edges. It's more like it allows me to feel my edges better. I think it's a subtle difference. I notice now if I tighten my skates a little too much, I lose some of that feel.
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I'm a huge fan of doing training with laces undone. I slowly worked my way up to it over the years until I could do the full monty so to speak, just before covid hit. And as I think back, I so wish I did this sooner when I was still on the upswing of life instead of the down. 😛 The difference in feel for my edges was so much better. I'm almost... ahem 50.... and I didn't expect to be getting much better than I was/am, but as soon as I started to train without laces, I found I started to make quick progress on skills that I'd stalled out on. My feel and control of my edges pre and post this isn't quite night and day, but I'd say pretty close, especially for my outside edges. It's hard to break bad habits, but I can tell immediately now if I took a good stride or a bad one and/or if I was well balanced on my skate or not when I did something. And because of that I can make the mental adjustment on the fly so to speak so I'm executing better. On a similar side note, last Friday I was in a game that got a bit spicy. I didn't know it at the time, but someone on the other team slashed my skate breaking a couple of clips on my right skate. I use skate straps, so breaking those clips pretty much mean I was skating with a "loose" right skate. I didn't even notice. I probably skated most of the game like that. After the game, my captain was telling me how well I was skating, just chasing players down on the back check and nullifying them.
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Can a Prosharp sharpening alter the Profile?
puckpilot replied to hockeydad3's topic in Ice Hockey Equipment
All it takes is one user error to create a bad sharpening and ruin a profile. So anything is possible. I always inspect my steel before I hand it over and after. I line up the steel on top of one another to compare the height to make sure they're even, from toe to heel. I've had it in the past where the difference in height was very noticeable. I didn't return to that shop. One thing kind of stuck out in your description. From my experience, fresh steel tends to have more on the toe and heel, and a overly aggressive, poor sharpening tends to grind too much off the toe and heel. Which is kind of opposite of what you've described. Though, I do vaguely remember someone describing how a shop basically ground their blades flat -
Just the top inch and a quarter. I make three steps, first step is 1.25 inches wide. Second is 1 inch wide, and the third is .5 inch wide.
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I've found using sock tape to make the knob and making the knob really large, 1.75" wide, helped in a lot of different areas. One being palm wear. The large knob lets you get a better grip with your top hand when pulling on it to shoot, so the end doesn't slip or move as much, which I found reduces the wear on the palm. The larger knob also distributes the pressure of the butt end over a larger area, also helping to reduce wear. And then there's the fact that sock tape is a lot smoother. Of course YMMV.