Miller55

Agree. If there is any preceived difference in weight these days, it probably has more to do with design, fit, balance etc than with actual overall weight

It might last, but we'll see. I agree with the sentiments though, that was what drew me to roller as well. Even in it's most competitive form it's still much more fun and laid back. I never played much ice hockey in large part because it was so competitive and expensive, and my dad had us in so much other competitive stuff that it was nice to just lace up and play on the dead ends

That's true. +1 for being pedantic

Is it us that cares? I would have thought the opposite, that most kids care who wears what and most of us wear what fits us best. I also don't remember branding on the show being anything like it is today. It seems like brands are plastered everywhere now. Maybe it's just cuz TV screens are bigger now

Agree, I hate the all 80s, but the sensor was definitely the best one. The thing about Mission is that you're never gonna see them do anything that doesn't already exist in Bauer ice skates, so they're basically just riding out the popularity of the brand name without actually innovating anything different from Bauer ice or roller. I think it's dumb, because they could really just use Mission for any weird innovation they want to try, and then keep Bauer roller traditional, but instead it's just two brand putting out basically the same skates. Yeah, that make sense. The patent expired and now they can see how they do. I think they might keep two lines if the sales can support it, as there are definitely players who prefer the all 80mm. I just wish tour would put a bit more into their boots. I love the fit and the comfort, but I'm not trying to go through a pair of skates every 2-3 seasons of 2x/week house league and maybe 1x/week pickup. I would love if they put out a top of the line + option, even if they raise the price point. I grew up on long island and know a bunch of the older tour players and I don't think anyone has been stoked on their skates in a long time. Everyone tells me they're fine but if they weren't free they would not be wearing them. The last tours I had were code tabus maybe 10 years ago, and I think every top end skate they've done since then had been pretty much the same skate with different graphics until this code 1.one

That's pretty funny. Just this week I was saying that I bet they're gonna do that with the design. Ha. I'm looking forward to seeing the new Tour lineup, but I have no idea when it will be since they just released the volt line. Wonder if they will put out a top model volt skate (kv1). The kv is the best looking boot they're probably ever made honestly

Not sure your size but they're were a bunch on PSH and SLS last I looked

Honestly, I thought that comment about weight was a poke at the bean counters

Interesting. I came from 72/80 Hi-Lo setup which I retained for a long time since the change to 76/80, and I found the sprungs much more maneuverable with 80s. I'm excited to hear this as I still haven't gotten time to choose boots to mount them on, but I'm glad to hear the performance is there.

Interesting. I find the 80s sprungs to be fine in height. Pleasantly surprised to hear that the grip is on par, I was expecting it to be less. Turning, cutting, transitions stopping, how are they with those? How's the adjustment period? I had no adjustment at all to the sprungs, but these seem like there might be a change. Looking forward to mounting mine asap

How do the R1 compare to Sprungs?

Winnwell is definitely a legitimate brand. The issue is that you probably won't find much about the fit online, whereas CCM, even if you buy online you can get a decent idea of the fit and quality. My biggest concern with gloves is always if the breaks will line up correctly for my hand.

Scans are also time consuming... They are not custom skates, so they will not fit everyone, but they are built on a stock last and will mold to fit a wider range of feet than most other skates. They have wide toe boxes and narrower heels and the heels and ankle can open up significantly, as well as offering wide sizes. For anyone who fits a normal retail skate, they should be able to find one of these that fits them. Obviously there will be exceptions, and they are not custom skates

Agreed. I thought it was a given, but yeah, True needs to be educating shops on the fit of this skate. I'd assume it's like all things in that is somewhat predictable and once you figure out how to fit them you can pretty much nail down the right skate for someone and then bake it to make sure. A shop can probably avoid baking more than one pair of skates the majority of the time once they figure it out. Obviously there will be exceptions, but I don't see why anyone would need to bake 5 different sizes of skates... I think the root of this discussion, though it probably has devolved too much into industry talk, is that the skates must be baked beforehand. This is important for anyone interested in the skates to make sure that they find a shop that will fit them properly.

Eh, I'm always weary of this stuff without trying on. If you're not desperate for new gloves I think it's better to try something on.

Haven't had a chance to try the Trues, but I watched his review and my concern was that he was saying that the 9s were a half size below CCM tacks. I find CCM to run a bit bigger than Bauer, where I'm really a 9.25, but I usually wear a 9.5 because 9 hurts my toes. In CCM tacks I'm a 9 and only my big toe barely feathers the toe cap, so I could probably do 8.75 even. So if True TFs are a half size down from CCM I could probably do 8.5. I guess I'll see if I get a chance to try them on on Sunday

The old winnwells were great 4rolls. Not sure about the newest ones, but I definitely recall seeing some Canucks pro stock winnwells that looked pretty well made a few years back. I didn't try them on though. Personally, I'd just get a CCM that you know will be good and you can usually score then fairly cheap on SLS. I wear Eagles and love them, but they're usually not cheap

I could care less, honestly. I'm not saying it because I want them to do it. I know enough to get them baked before purchasing. It's about True being able to guarantee that customers get the best fit that they can. Ultimately that's what they're offering to compete with the big boys, a better fit. Well, if they don't see to it that customers have the skates baked and that shops know how to fit them properly then people aren't going to get a good fit from these. If they don't get a good fit then True is done for, even though they're discounted etc. I'm not saying they have to or that I expect it or want it, just that they're gonna have a hard time beating Mako sales without some sort of solution to the fact that their skates fit completely differently before vs. after baking... For True to just put out a skate and hope that shops figure out how to fit it well it's pretty sad if they think they're going to make a dent in the retail market. Again, I'm rooting for them, I think it's a great thing and I would love to see them succeed. In my mind they definitely have to find some way to control the fit process though. I'm not just bring a spoiled baby about this (at least I don't think I am) but I'm just pointing out that I think they can and they must find some way to make sure people get fit for these properly. I'm hoping they work for me too, and if they do I plan on putting my money where my mouth is. My only real concern is right ankle injuries and these might not be the boots for me, but who knows.

Easton always used to have demo skates available to retailers. I'm sure there was some qualification, ie the stores had to do a certain amount in Easton sales. Also, my point wasn't that that's how they have to do it, I was just trying to illustrate the possibilities. It's easy to sit on a MB and say it's too cost prohibitive, but what are you basing that on? By the same token, it's easy for me to say that it's possible and they just need to figure something out. None of us crunched any numbers, so none of us can say for sure. But the bottom line is that Trues have to be baked to fit right, and True is responsible to make sure that happens. The odds are stacked against them in retail, so they need to do whatever they can to grab a share of the market. Bauer's doing what they can to prevent that. But True needs to do what they can, which means they have to get the info and opportunity out there. If they don't, people will end up buying the wrong sizes and the skate will suck and that's the end of True retail. So yeah, it might cut the margins to offer demo try on skates and institute some sort of fitting oversight, but if they don't do it the skate is basically doomed.

Agreed. My point is just that these aren't problems without solutions. If anybody wanted to make it work, it could and I think it would definitely be worthwhile. That's in a vacuum. Add in the pressure from other companies to suppress True retails and your dealing with a different animal. Depends on the skate... Exactly. There's plenty of things that could be done. True could offer x number of demo fit models per order etc.

Definitely. I know it's not what you're referring to, but even if shops did that for the TFs I think that's better than the alternatives of just not selling them out selling them without fitting them properly.

The same issue existed with the Nexus line from Bauer. I don't see this as a reason not to sell a product, just because you will actually have to do a bit of work. Maybe it's just me, but in my experience there are shops that want to help you find a pair of skates that fit. For them, it's not a deterrent. And there are shops that couldn't give a crap, and for them even trying on a second pair of skates is an inconvenience and the customer can tell. It's a 6 minute bake, which can be done 3 minutes apart. If the store is that busy they can line a few folks up or set up times for True "retail fittings" and just run an oven the whole time. Get creative, it's not a major issue in my eyes. My point is that if you're a hockey shop that can easily sell a good product and you're going to hem and haw about having to bake the skates to fit them then that's ridiculous. I'd venture to guess that the large majority of educated consumers on this board do not frequent such shops. It's an easy sale in my eyes. Go tell some guy that he can get a great fit in these skates and they're very moldable and if he fits retail skates then these are a custom quality fit in a retail skate. I think that customers would love it and eat it up. If you run a business then why wouldn't you sell a product that is easy to hype, just because it takes a few extra minutes of your time? You can make happy customers. What's better for business than happy customers? Having an extra 6 minute to yourself to check mod squad on your iPhone?

Interesting that this works ok on synthetic. Good to know thanks

Not sure why baking the skate is such a big deal? I think the opposite is true. Baking the skate will give the best fit and the best chance of selling the skate, whereas not baking it will pretty much guarantee you won't sell it. I'd like to believe it's purely economics, but I was explicitly told otherwise. I've heard from multiple owners that they would like to carry them and think they would sell, but don't want to hurt their Bauer relationship. I heard from one manger that their Bauer rep "strongly encouraged them" not to stock True retail. That's a direct quote. I think the True skates are a good product with an excellent value proposition and Bauer is definitely threatened and they're doing what they can to keep their business. Not saying they're doing anything wrong, it's business. But I've definitely seen this story more than once with Bauer. And it has more to do with keeping their bloated margins than anything else. They own the retail market and want to keep it. Some might call it playing cheap, others can call it using your leverage. Everyone is entitled to their view. Mine is that Bauer cares more about money than hockey. Not a crime, but not something I care to support. I haven't gotten a pair of True retails to try on yet, but I am getting a check tomorrow... if the finish and fit are good, I'm willing to gamble on the durability of the initial release, although typically I'd wait for the first batch to go and the kinks to be resolved, but I'm interested enough.

True ought to be including that, but it seems that there are quite a few areas where the shops are not carrying the TFs, probably out of loyalty to Bauer/CCM and some hesitation to see if there are qc issues with the Trues. Locally, the best few shops (all smaller) are not carrying the Trues and have stopped doing customs because they were just one headache after another. They stock Bauer, CCM and Graf (Owner is an old school power skating instructor, swears by Graf). Then there are the big boxes carrying Trues that probably have no idea how to fit them properly. And then there are some shops that will order TFs to try on, but aren't stocking them. And there's a few big boxes that aren't carrying them at all, most likely because if the Bauer dominance.