Miller55

Haven't had a chance to try the Trues, but I watched his review and my concern was that he was saying that the 9s were a half size below CCM tacks. I find CCM to run a bit bigger than Bauer, where I'm really a 9.25, but I usually wear a 9.5 because 9 hurts my toes. In CCM tacks I'm a 9 and only my big toe barely feathers the toe cap, so I could probably do 8.75 even. So if True TFs are a half size down from CCM I could probably do 8.5. I guess I'll see if I get a chance to try them on on Sunday

The old winnwells were great 4rolls. Not sure about the newest ones, but I definitely recall seeing some Canucks pro stock winnwells that looked pretty well made a few years back. I didn't try them on though. Personally, I'd just get a CCM that you know will be good and you can usually score then fairly cheap on SLS. I wear Eagles and love them, but they're usually not cheap

I could care less, honestly. I'm not saying it because I want them to do it. I know enough to get them baked before purchasing. It's about True being able to guarantee that customers get the best fit that they can. Ultimately that's what they're offering to compete with the big boys, a better fit. Well, if they don't see to it that customers have the skates baked and that shops know how to fit them properly then people aren't going to get a good fit from these. If they don't get a good fit then True is done for, even though they're discounted etc. I'm not saying they have to or that I expect it or want it, just that they're gonna have a hard time beating Mako sales without some sort of solution to the fact that their skates fit completely differently before vs. after baking... For True to just put out a skate and hope that shops figure out how to fit it well it's pretty sad if they think they're going to make a dent in the retail market. Again, I'm rooting for them, I think it's a great thing and I would love to see them succeed. In my mind they definitely have to find some way to control the fit process though. I'm not just bring a spoiled baby about this (at least I don't think I am) but I'm just pointing out that I think they can and they must find some way to make sure people get fit for these properly. I'm hoping they work for me too, and if they do I plan on putting my money where my mouth is. My only real concern is right ankle injuries and these might not be the boots for me, but who knows.

Easton always used to have demo skates available to retailers. I'm sure there was some qualification, ie the stores had to do a certain amount in Easton sales. Also, my point wasn't that that's how they have to do it, I was just trying to illustrate the possibilities. It's easy to sit on a MB and say it's too cost prohibitive, but what are you basing that on? By the same token, it's easy for me to say that it's possible and they just need to figure something out. None of us crunched any numbers, so none of us can say for sure. But the bottom line is that Trues have to be baked to fit right, and True is responsible to make sure that happens. The odds are stacked against them in retail, so they need to do whatever they can to grab a share of the market. Bauer's doing what they can to prevent that. But True needs to do what they can, which means they have to get the info and opportunity out there. If they don't, people will end up buying the wrong sizes and the skate will suck and that's the end of True retail. So yeah, it might cut the margins to offer demo try on skates and institute some sort of fitting oversight, but if they don't do it the skate is basically doomed.

Agreed. My point is just that these aren't problems without solutions. If anybody wanted to make it work, it could and I think it would definitely be worthwhile. That's in a vacuum. Add in the pressure from other companies to suppress True retails and your dealing with a different animal. Depends on the skate... Exactly. There's plenty of things that could be done. True could offer x number of demo fit models per order etc.

Definitely. I know it's not what you're referring to, but even if shops did that for the TFs I think that's better than the alternatives of just not selling them out selling them without fitting them properly.

The same issue existed with the Nexus line from Bauer. I don't see this as a reason not to sell a product, just because you will actually have to do a bit of work. Maybe it's just me, but in my experience there are shops that want to help you find a pair of skates that fit. For them, it's not a deterrent. And there are shops that couldn't give a crap, and for them even trying on a second pair of skates is an inconvenience and the customer can tell. It's a 6 minute bake, which can be done 3 minutes apart. If the store is that busy they can line a few folks up or set up times for True "retail fittings" and just run an oven the whole time. Get creative, it's not a major issue in my eyes. My point is that if you're a hockey shop that can easily sell a good product and you're going to hem and haw about having to bake the skates to fit them then that's ridiculous. I'd venture to guess that the large majority of educated consumers on this board do not frequent such shops. It's an easy sale in my eyes. Go tell some guy that he can get a great fit in these skates and they're very moldable and if he fits retail skates then these are a custom quality fit in a retail skate. I think that customers would love it and eat it up. If you run a business then why wouldn't you sell a product that is easy to hype, just because it takes a few extra minutes of your time? You can make happy customers. What's better for business than happy customers? Having an extra 6 minute to yourself to check mod squad on your iPhone?

Interesting that this works ok on synthetic. Good to know thanks

Not sure why baking the skate is such a big deal? I think the opposite is true. Baking the skate will give the best fit and the best chance of selling the skate, whereas not baking it will pretty much guarantee you won't sell it. I'd like to believe it's purely economics, but I was explicitly told otherwise. I've heard from multiple owners that they would like to carry them and think they would sell, but don't want to hurt their Bauer relationship. I heard from one manger that their Bauer rep "strongly encouraged them" not to stock True retail. That's a direct quote. I think the True skates are a good product with an excellent value proposition and Bauer is definitely threatened and they're doing what they can to keep their business. Not saying they're doing anything wrong, it's business. But I've definitely seen this story more than once with Bauer. And it has more to do with keeping their bloated margins than anything else. They own the retail market and want to keep it. Some might call it playing cheap, others can call it using your leverage. Everyone is entitled to their view. Mine is that Bauer cares more about money than hockey. Not a crime, but not something I care to support. I haven't gotten a pair of True retails to try on yet, but I am getting a check tomorrow... if the finish and fit are good, I'm willing to gamble on the durability of the initial release, although typically I'd wait for the first batch to go and the kinks to be resolved, but I'm interested enough.

True ought to be including that, but it seems that there are quite a few areas where the shops are not carrying the TFs, probably out of loyalty to Bauer/CCM and some hesitation to see if there are qc issues with the Trues. Locally, the best few shops (all smaller) are not carrying the Trues and have stopped doing customs because they were just one headache after another. They stock Bauer, CCM and Graf (Owner is an old school power skating instructor, swears by Graf). Then there are the big boxes carrying Trues that probably have no idea how to fit them properly. And then there are some shops that will order TFs to try on, but aren't stocking them. And there's a few big boxes that aren't carrying them at all, most likely because if the Bauer dominance.

Pretty much echoing what althoma said, but Mission sounds release new line start if next year. If you're set on roller boots, I'd wait for the new release and at least then you might score some FZs for discount. Otherwise look into True TF boots or other ice boots that you like. Personally, I try to support the roller brands as much as I can because I want to see them do well and stick around, but at this point it's just Alkali and Tour, and Alkali is Tron now, and Tour boots are hit or miss and will never be the stiffest, so I end up with ice boots usually.

My thoughts exactly. Very interesting design. Hope it proves to be durable, otherwise it could be more trouble than it's worth even.

Yeah, these Trues have their work cut out for them to break into the market. It would be a bummer if they don't sell well because stores don't push a bake as an integral part of the fitting. Ultimately it's on True to get that information out to the public and to the stores that are carrying it. It's definitely a must.

I think the bigger issue is the combination of sealing without destroying moisture wicking.

Clarino is synthetic so leather products will not work on it. I believe it is a nylon based product. In my experience the best way to clean and restore synthetic suede is by cleaning it with a damp brush. I don't think you will be able to seal it, as I don't know if a product that will adhere and bond with synthetic leather or suede

Still is

I'd be down for Sherwood to release all their comp sticks with wood graphics packages. The ek15 was sick with the wood graphic

This pretty much describes my sentiments. I don't really understand this from a business perspective either. Is it because the costs of running multiple brands is too much. In my mind it seems like a non issue for Bauer. Let Mission run and do it's own thing, and even Easton and everyone else they've bought, itech etc, and let everyone think they're getting all these choices and it all ends up in your pockets anyway. Is there any reason not to do that? I'm far from a business man so I don't know the ins and outs, but it seems better than just gobbling up all the brands into one entity. I mean, Mission was big. Now they basically put out inline skates and crappy hockey pants that are like joggers with elastic waistbands...

I would be very surprised about this. I don't see the point in combining the two, as Bauer and mission basically completely dominate roller sales, especially in high end. From what I see they are very popular, so I don't see why they'd go anywhere. I would love to see mission put out some good roller pants and gloves one day.

The price of Mako used resellers is a decent indication in part. Obviously the price is higher because they're harder to come by and all you need is one guy who loves them to pay 4-500 bucks, but they regularly sell above 350 in decent shape in the common sizes. I know this is a small indication, but if they got rid of the Nexus I think there's definitely room for Bauer to release a Mako type skate. Maybe TF9 sales will be a good indication of the retail market for that type of skate

I mean, I guess it doesn't need a seal, but it would limit a lot more of what's expelled...

For some reason I'm skeptical about that mask actually fitting well and having a decent seal with the chin cup inside. Something about it just looks a bit off, like it will end up just sitting a bit away from the face and not being worth very much.

Basically yeah. They could be the beer league heroes

I agree it isn't the same as the bigger brands, but I thought it was pretty close at a significantly lower price point. I will always appreciate Sherwood for the BPM 120 le tan leather gloves, but I think this is going in a weird direction

Didn't realize they raised prices. It's also hideous. It's a shame because Sher-Wood is awesome. The m90 is a great stick and a great value. The BPM 120 glove was great all around. Sherwood could honestly do great business by just being good and a bit cheaper