flip12
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Posts posted by flip12
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32 minutes ago, hockeydad3 said:Is it just try and error or are there predicting factors for someone to buy the right skate?
A typical statement is that beginners should use a softer skate.
Are there beginners who need an advanced skate?
That's kind of the best I know of at this point. I've wondered about ways to try skates out before you buy them, but I'm not sure of a good way to do it yet. I guess that's why CCM has their forgiving trial return policy.
Maybe if you could try skates on without the holders and do a set of jumping exercises in them you could get a sense of if they hinder your forward flex or not. I doubt this would work well for testing their lateral support for turns though.
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As @clarkiestooth says, the stiffness of the boot has a lot to do with whether a player will feel undersupported (I think this is what people mean by sloppy when they’re talking about stiffness), adequately supported or restricted (oversupported). Different strokes for different players, though, literally. The stride length, as a function of the player’s natural body frame, of say Grabner versus Toews will have a large influence on where these over and undersupported lines get individually drawn. In my personal experience, a significantly overlooked component in this equation is tongue stiffness. If there’s room to go down in tongue stiffness, a stiffer boot can still allow for adequate forward flex.
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45 minutes ago, nshore5 said:Ok great thanks. I bought a pair of prostock Trues and they seemed wide and like moon boots compared to my makos. But they were a size E and probably punched out, so probably would think differently if they were sized correctly for me. Do they have the same forward pitch as makos? Thats what makes makos so unique and would be tough going back to a bauer or ccm unless u profiled the crap out of them.
A significant number of Mako lovers loved them in spite of that aggressive pitch. A lot of people swapped holders to tone it down a bit. Some of that pitch is in the boot, some in the holder and some the steel. You can still replicate that angle even in something as different as a Nexus skate. Shims will change your angle without affecting the steel. Buy the skate for how it fits your foot dynamically. Adjust for ice contact properties afterwards as these are primarily issues of the steel and holder (though in concert with the boot) and can be tuned as needed regardless of which boot suits you.
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4 hours ago, z1ggy said:There's nothing wrong with the elbow pads I have now, other than being like... 8 years old and pretty gross. They function properly still and most of the stitching is still intact. I'll look into the seamstress thing...maybe the lady who does dry cleaning down the street can do it, I know she does minor alterations for pants, shirts, etc.
Maybe you’re due for new elbows, but I’d argue you should choose those based on best fit and function. If the jersey’s still tight there, get the jersey altered to fit the elbow pads, rather than letting the jersey dictate which pads you wear.
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If you’re happy with the elbows, maybe get a quote from a seamster for adding a little volume to the sleeve. Could be cheaper, plus the minimum I can think of is either the Jofa or Sherwood classic styles that are essentially volleyball knee pads. I had some super mobile and low profile Kohos for years but replaced them after a slew-foot check almost shattered my elbow.
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Looks like a better fit than what he had last season.
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11 hours ago, stick9 said:Gee, flip13 disagrees me...there's a shocker.
Let me dumb it down for everyone. In the orginal pic of Nylander he looks a lot like Pasta, enough so to warrant a snarky remark, which I provided. Not sure why that got everyone's panties in a bunch.
And yes, William and David are friends. It's pretty well documented.
The original picture doesn’t look at all like Pastrnak. You can’t possibly dumb it down, your point was clear from the beginning.
The reason I thought it was interesting is there are people who are face blind. Do you often have these switch ups?
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1 hour ago, stick9 said:It's not the number, they actually look alike. Being friends makes it even weirder.
I don’t think they look alike at all beyond the fact that they’re both athletic white males of approximately the same age (they’re less than a month apart in age, but I didn’t know that before looking it up, and anyone comparing their appearance wouldn’t necessarily know it either). But that description fits a majority of the NHL. Nylander’s got a very LEGO face, so once you’ve recognized him it’s hard to mistake him for someone else. Pastrnak’s got a much longer looking face and a generally goofier game face than Nylander. I could see mixing Pastrnak up with Anze Kopitar if it weren’t for the age difference.
Who’s friends with whom? P and N are or you are with P and N?
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10 hours ago, clarkiestooth said:To me, it seems identical to the Bauer one, with the exception that the fasteners are made to fit the CCM helmets, unlike the Bauer bubble.
The ventilation pattern is very similar but subtly different. Notably an even number of 'columns' in the grill that make the middle a void rather than a bar; Concept features an odd number, putting a vertical in the middle. The ventilation on the side is a bit different as well. I wonder if these minor differences will have any effect on how they breathe, comparatively, or whether it's purely cosmetic.
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I was about to ask what Heritage is, but a quick search gave this: https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/roustan-capital-acquires-heritage-hockey-sticks
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2 hours ago, Leif said:Yes, I agree, they should be compared to Bauer/CCM customs. I know four people with Bauer customs, including myself, all are perfect. But I won’t draw conclusions from a small sample. Incidentally I don’t have a dog in the race. I would have bought Trues if the shop wasn’t 250 miles away, compared to 25 miles away for the Bauer dealer who now stocks Trues!
Totally agree. I don’t know anyone with Bauer or CCM customs, but from reading on here I’ve come across some complaints reminiscent of those against True customs.
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The nature of True’s zero negative space fit could lend itself to these struggles too. Comparing them to what you see from Bauer and CCM at retail isn’t really apples to apples. With less filler in the mix custom Trues seem to be a tricky puzzle of cookie cutter pieces that must come together on a more unique target form with each pair. In my opinion, this is some of the growing pains you get from a speed skate maker making further and further inroads on the hockey market. Just consider that elite custom speed boots seem to run around $2K per pair, plus the claim from SVH that hockey boots are subject to far more substantial abuse from abrasions and impacts on the outside and perspiration on the inside. That and the sheer volume discrepancies between the hockey and speed skating markets point toward an adjustment phase where the techniques adapted from the one sea are firmly reapplied in the new one. Meantime, True’s market penetration keeps growing. That’s number one.
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I tried a chrome cage once and it was a major nuisance, though not because of the color but because of the glare. It reflected so much light it felt like 30 constantly moving tiny flashlights pointed at my face. I usually wear a black cage and don't really notice it. It's not like I ever forget I have it on, but I also never feel like it's interfering with my vision of the play or the puck. That blame usually lies with something not quite right with my stick setup.
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Did you have all of those various steels profiled?
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1 hour ago, Nicholas G said:Not the new standard thin tongue. The optional one does.
What is the new one’s material makeup? Foam, felt, and leather? Can you share some detailed views of it?
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1 hour ago, Nicholas G said:I don't think top of the line Bauer or CCM skates are nearly as durable as they should be for their price point. IMO, the new Vapor skates look kind of cheap compared to the FT2. That's ugly bright yellow and such really devalues the look of the skate.
Ketchup, mustard, and bratwurst is the theme of this generation of Vapor sticks and skates, so at least it’s consistent if not really coherent.
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Does the new tongue have a moderately stiff thermoplastic piece running 90% of its length like the MLX tongue had?
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3 hours ago, mojo122 said:What size is that? I weighed the size 8 sample skate with the new holder and steel and it came in at 750 grams. Skate needs a couple of more improvements IMO, but the weight reduction is a good one.
What improvements do you have in mind?
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Absolutely Vapor 8.
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11 hours ago, Kgbeast said:The Graf insistence on 2-piece goes beyond fit. Actually fit would not be a problem in all plastic boot as that can be molded to whatever shape with modern methods. Graf's thing is also about that different parts of the boot need to have different stiffness and flex, which is not possible if the whole thing is made of one material. Bauer not into monocoque stuff either. Seems like CCM does it to be competitive with Bauer under assumption that it has something more cutting edge. Not sure if they themselves believe into monocoque thing. I have not really heard any convincing argument for monocoque construction, just some waffle about the energy transfer which is rather questionable. But hey, heart wants what heart wants.
I wouldn’t change that either. That’s another thing I think Graf gets more than the other skate brands...though I suppose it’s impossiblebto refute the simple counter-argument that other brands only make their skates stiffer than stiff across the entire boot because that’s what the customer wants; on the other hand Bauer and CCM have begun to walk back their overzealous boot stiffening of late.
Again, look at Viking speed skates: they’re not nearly as stiff as competitors’ boots, but they’re still popular and skaters wearing them still figure in the medal count. They’ve meshed the integrated outsole-quarter piece and managed to maintain their optimal feel of stiff down low and softer on top.
The marketing of the one piece boot is often a bit wishy washy, but I definitely notice a difference in high speed turning stability and more immediate response wearing my MLX compared to Graf. There are still things, previously mentioned, that I still prefer from my Grafs. But when I swap them out for MLXs mid-session, I feel the performance boost instantly. I’m starting to wonder if this has less to do with there being less material or fewer parts in the boot-holder junction and more to do with the boot better resisting torsion.
I’ll add some visual materials to show where that thinking comes from in a little bit. I think I’ll have to dig around to find some images and also probably sketch some others. I just want to finish this monster post, “Sorry,” with this: whatever the cause, I definitely do believe in the benefit of the one piece boot...not that I think it has to be one chunk of a shell, but that the effect of those skates is very real, and I’d bet the future of hockey skates 10-years down the line.
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11 hours ago, AnimalFear said:I understand that, but they say that the two-piece quarter package/heel part is the reason why they fit so well, so going to a more traditional one-piece construction would require losing their calling card in terms of being such comfortable fitting skates. Then again, Graf is basically just barely surviving at this point because of a perceived lack of desire to innovate, so perhaps you are right and they should offer a new line that has the one-piece construction.
Right. I’d try integrating the parts quarter A - outsole - quarter B into a butterflylike unit, leaving the heel part to be stitched up the same way they’ve been doing for decades.
Viking’s heel cup is similar, but I picture the approach I’d try changing less about Graf’s assembly process.
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22 minutes ago, AnimalFear said:They are very adamant about the two-piece construction being a big factor for why they fit so well, so i doubt they would stray from that.
I wouldn’t change the various Graf fits at all, just update the boots’ materials and construction.
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I just wish Graf would do a monocoque boot, with an integrated outsole and quarter package.
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On 6/17/2019 at 2:02 AM, Sniper9 said:True skates are built from the last inside out, starting with the liners placed on the last itself and then built all the way out to the trim.
From the videos Ive seen for CCM, Even for total custom CCM skates, they use high pressure moulding of a pre made quarter package onto the individual's last, which imo, is just like heat moulding but on steroids.
Also, CCM saying their boots are "one piece" is kind of false advertising imo, as you can clearly see the crease/ line on the heel area, similar to the joint on the old "one piece" fused sticks.
Just wanted to refresh this line of this thread because I unsurfaced this while digging through Sport Maska (CCM) patents on Google Patents:
Here's the patent, Skate and method of manufacture, from 2014: https://patents.google.com/patent/EP2932864B1
That's the closest I've found to an inside look at what could be an indication of how CCM's OPBs are made. It's the same mold form I was envisioning creating that seam trace you can see along the middle of the shell.
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Skate replacement for Easton Mako
in Ice Hockey Equipment
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If you go back in the archives on here, the connection is clear: MLX is what they renamed DASC, an acronym of 4 names where D is David Cruikshank and S Scott Van Horne after Mario Lemieux came on as an investor. I don’t know who the other two are. If you rewatch the Making of the Mako videos, Cruikshank shows off his SVH made prototype. I’m pretty sure he mentions SVH as the boot maker there. But SVH was the builder behind MLX/DASC as far as I know. Why VH Footwear didn’t have a non-compete with the Mako might come down to the different companies or the subtle differences between the Mako and VH, I’m not sure. Before all that Van Horne was also involved with Kor. @JunkyardAthletic knows the details much better.