The Things Customers Do

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

Happens more often than you think...those people generally have no qualms with asking for a discount everywhere they go.

[interpathway 9]

Happens more often than you think...those people generally have no qualms with asking for a discount everywhere they go.

And so the first generation of kids who grew up throughout the era of ebay and Crigslist sales make their way into retail stores, with money, from their first jobs. #generalization

[wrangler 157]

It's business, not "social". Manners and courtesy should obtain, regarding how, and how hard, an individual pushes for a discount, but I don't see anything wrong with asking. I also don't see anything wrong with simply telling the customer that the price is as low as the store will go on a particular item, or that store policy is not to negotiate.

As to "when"? This type of negotiation has been around since before money, when business was all bartering, and is still the norm in many parts of the world. It's still the norm in the U.S. for some types of goods, such as cars, trucks, airplanes, equipment, furniture, appliances.

And it's not just kids. Almost any place you go, I'd bet at one time or another, someone has asked for a "senior discount".

Edited August 17, 2011 by wrangler

[AIREAYE 248]

I have no problem with someone asking for a discount, it's not easy to earn money after all and one should try to save when they can. However if a store employee says no, then drop it; simple as that.

We gave a small discount to a guy for a pair of Syko pants that had a little scuff on them, not common practise but a courtesy given how they were already heavily marked down and the guy was buying other stuff too.

There were a few guys who went as far as asking our own guys for use of their employee discount, which is a pretty substantial thing in itself. That however, is stepping on the line, especially since we don't even know you

As wrangler said, it's common for larger purchases as mentioned

[interpathway 9]

As wrangler said, it's common for larger purchases as mentioned

More accurately, I believe bartering and negotiating has always been a part of the process of financing items (which are always big money purchases), but should not be a part of the process of purchasing items.

[AIREAYE 248]

More accurately, I believe bartering and negotiating has always been a part of the process of financing items (which are always big money purchases), but should not be a part of the process of purchasing items.

Hmm, but you consider asking for a discount, then accepting a refusal to be bartering then?

[interpathway 9]

Hmm, but you consider asking for a discount, then accepting a refusal to be bartering then?

It is an attempt to negotiate, clearly, yes.

Edited August 17, 2011 by interpathway

[wrangler 157]

Hmm, but you consider asking for a discount, then accepting a refusal to be bartering then?

I'd call it negotiating or haggling, when it applies to paying for something. My understanding of bartering is that it's a swap of goods/services for other goods/services, occasionally with money added on one side to even things out. It goes back to before money was invented.

More accurately, I believe bartering and negotiating has always been a part of the process of financing items (which are always big money purchases), but should not be a part of the process of purchasing items.

And while you may negotiate financing, you may also negotiate cash prices, as many of us do on the items I mentioned, and many have historically, i.e., discount for cash, for multiple item purchases, etc.

Edited August 17, 2011 by wrangler

[interpathway 9]

you may also negotiate cash prices

I agree with what you say, but I believe these arguments are stemming from the original question, of is it OK to negotiate prices in a hockey store?, when the prices are set as is by management in order to keep the store away from red numbers?

As a former retail sporting goods manager, no, I do not like it and no, I do not think people should have the perception that their individual purchase is more important than anyone else's/the store's bottom line/what have you.

In my experience the people haggling for discounts are usually the same ones who assume the store marks everything up an extra 100% to achieve gross profits, when time sitting on the floor, employees having to explain the product to customers (not every one of which will purchase it/anything at all), occupying shelf space, all cut into the profit on the product.

Edited August 17, 2011 by interpathway

[halfmoonyote 0]

LOL It's interesting to me those that are in favor of said negotiating practices in retails stores - I can't wait until you guys have something for sale here. I'll be interested to see how quick and eager you are - as a seller - to 'negotiate' with me if I want to buy your stuff.

Edited August 17, 2011 by halfmoonyote

[wrangler 157]

I don't attempt to negotiate LHS purchase prices myself. Prices may be "set", but that's up to the LHS, and it's really just an asking price until someone pays it, even though many folks may have already paid it for other items of the same model. I know that most of us don't often look at it that way, as we've become used to accepting marked prices in a lot of Western cultures, but nobody can force a shopper to buy, let alone buy at a specific price. And, as I've noted, hard prices are a relatively recent development in these cultures, historically speaking.

A retailer doesn't have to like it, and doesn't have to give it, but a shopper can ask for a discount. As long as the shopper comports himself courteously, I don't have a problem with it. As a retailer, I would find it difficult to explain to regular customers why I gave someone else a cheaper price on an item, and would probably decline to give an extra discount for that reason.

I agree, and a lot of us here know, that many customers don't appreciate that the LHS pricing structure is important to keeping that store there, so it's available for shopping in person, trying stuff on, etc. And that if they are successful often enough in their pricing requests, they'll no longer have a place to do that.

LOL It's interesting to me those that are in favor of said negotiating practices in retails stores - I can't wait until you guys have something for sale here. I'll be interested to see how quick and eager you are - as a seller - to 'negotiate' with me if I want to buy your stuff.

I thought we were discussing whether it's OK to ask. I didn't notice any comments stating that the LHS should negotiate, or give a discount.

Edited August 17, 2011 by wrangler

[halfmoonyote 0]

Agreed Wrangler.

And my original post, my main point was how (IMO) rude, pushy, inconsiderate, and downright disrespectful I felt this young man was being to the shop employee by pushing and pushing for an unreasonable discount.

[wrangler 157]

Agreed Wrangler.

And my original post, my main point was how (IMO) rude, pushy, inconsiderate, and downright disrespectful I felt this young man was being to the shop employee by pushing and pushing for an unreasonable discount.

Fair enough; I hope it was clear that I can't support that type of behavior.

[DarkStar50 679]

I have been asked for a discount so many times that I had to find a standard answer. When someone asks for a discount I say "I really wish I could but all the transactions on the sales register are monitored by the accounting department. We(using we takes the pressure off of saying I) are not allowed to offer discounts, I'm really sorry." It is short, it is sweet, it answers the request without being offensive.

[Joshison 1]

I have been asked for a discount so many times that I had to find a standard answer. When someone asks for a discount I say "I really wish I could but all the transactions on the sales register are monitored by the accounting department. We(using we takes the pressure off of saying I) are not allowed to offer discounts, I'm really sorry." It is short, it is sweet, it answers the request without being offensive.

I cant believe people have the balls to ask for u to use ur employee discount.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Joshison

[interpathway 9]

More importantly...

"I really wish I could but all the transactions on the sales register are monitored by the accounting department. We(using we takes the pressure off of saying I) are not allowed to offer discounts, I'm really sorry." It is short, it is sweet, it denies the request without being offensive.

I don't think DS was saying people are asking for "his" discount, but rather a(n arbitrary) % off their new skates/stick.

[AIREAYE 248]

I cant believe people have the balls to ask for u to use ur employee discount.

That's my case lol

[raganblink 82]

What I find funniest is I have never seen someone ask for a discount at a big chain store - hockey or otherwise. Do you think kohl's will take off an extra 10% off the price? No, they won't. Do you think Cabela's does as well? Knowing somewhere that worked(s) in both of those places I can tell you if they gave out a discount they'd lose their jobs.

I get asked "is that the best price you can do for me?" or "is it on discount or anything like that?" 5-6 times a week, at a bare minimum. It's probably 5-6 times a day and I just don't realize it...

I noticed someone last weekend asked a guy at a bait shop if 12 bucks was the best price for the net he picked out - are you F257king kidding me??? I don't understand why people ask for discounts (not because its on closeout or there is a special going on... no, asking for discounts on shit like X6.0 skates that JUST came out) at Ma and Pa places???

Because you know, we're in this run down strip mall, next door to a quiznos and a vacant clothing store because we're making so much money we choose to run our business out of here. Rather then the chains, who have their own buildings, who are struggling so much the price on the sticker unquestionably is the price that I am paying. I am not singling out hockey either, it goes for everything.

Hockey especially isn't a high-markup business. I don't understand why people think it is... Just because something sells at $600 doesn't mean that it cost us $300. We're not clothing, making at a minimum a 50% markup. I know hockey is an expensive sport, but there is a reason they offer lower-end models. Can't afford $600 skates? Buy clearance models or used if you want that quality of a skate. OR buy the models below them. Don't ask me to take a discount.

What erks me the most about people asking for a discount - you're no better then the people who bought these last week, at sticker price, no questions asked. And actually, since you did ask for it, I am going to think less of you, and more highly of them, then in the future, I'm a hell of a lot more likely to give them something free (tape, sharpening, mouthguard, whatever), because they come in here, respect the prices and respect me and the shop, rather then you, who does none of those things. I realize that is a harsh stance, but that's how I feel. I like our customers who come in here no questions asked then those who try to take me down $6.

Some people innocently ask that, which I'm okay with - there trying to save some $, and rarely if at all do it. But then there are the people who come in here and act like we're a garage sale. Those are the people who make my head hurt. No, I'm not selling this bag below sticker price, and there is no way in hell I'm taking 20% off because all you have on you is $80. A week ago I had someone offer 140 for an 11K helmet. Sorry, not going to do it. I realize that's only $10 and 7.5%, however, that adds up. That becomes $10 we can't put towards paying off hockey gear or handing out bonuses or putting towards more hooks or items that we use to display products.

Thanks for that line DS, going to use that one. I've been stating "I'm sorry but I cannot. To keep things fair for everyone we don't give out discounts.. However if you'd like to join our membership program you receive the member price." (Membership costs $25 for a year, gives 8% off... its not a lot, but you'd be amazed how many people do it so they can save $10 on a stick). Again I keep stating it, however I doubt that we'll ever see it - hockey manufactures enforcing a minimum selling price policy like how some golf companies regulate their product.

A) so people are not undercutting each other (a huge problem in some parts of NA)

B) so people understand that sticker price is what it is. Its set by the companies and not us, tough shit. We've already been at that for years, prices haven't gone up, you just now are aware that everyone sells everything for essentially (or now, literally) the same price.

Edited August 17, 2011 by raganblink

[oldman 1]

They ask because in many places they get something for asking

I just got 15% off of a pair of APX skates for my son by just asking. This was in Calgary but it is the way of the world in most places.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

One of the stores I worked for used to mark up most of their items 10%. The stuff that was MAP'd wasn't, and they called it "Sale - lowest advertised price." The way it worked was if you asked for a discount, they'd give you a 10% discount on the non-"sale" items, so they never dipped past their proper margin if they gave out a discount. For those who didn't ask for a discount at all, they made 10% extra off of them. Some knew the game, but most didn't. But it was at the point that your known customers didn't even have to ask; they figured the game out and they just got the 10% by default, even going as far as calling it "their" discount.

Never really made up my mind on how I felt about it. It's sneaky in a way, but smart in another.

My take on the whole discount thing is that you will condition your clientele to expect a discount every time they come in your store. Same thing with blowout sales; the LHS in this town does a horrible job of buying, and the clientele expects a blowout sale every year. So, they hold off on purchasing anything until it is blown out.

[top 1974 0]

They ask because in many places they get something for asking

I just got 15% off of a pair of APX skates for my son by just asking. This was in Calgary but it is the way of the world in most places.

I work for a software and services company. All prospective clients ask for software and service discounts. All of them....

Last pair of skates I bought were CCM Vector 10.0. I paid sticker price and with cash. I asked for a sharpening card - and got one.

Edited August 17, 2011 by JR Boucicaut
Please do not start bringing in cost into this. It is not standardized because not all stores pay the same. I'm pretty positive your company does not disclose what their software costs to their clients.

[jimmy 194]

I blame kohls, Joseph A. Bank and the big dept stores for conditioning shoppers into thinking everything is on sale, all the time. Jos A bank was running a commercial, "buy 1 suit get 6 free, plus 6 shirts". The margin on hockey equipment is just not like other retail products. That shirt at Kohls that is 80% off, has a 300% markup to start. I wish our industry had that, I'd have 80% off sales all the time.

[wrangler 157]

Doesn't the cost, hence the markup, vary with the quantity a retailer purchases? I don't know about hockey, but in a lot of industries, the superstores have a much lower cost per unit because they purchase in huge quantities.

raganblink - you've got the easy answer at your store: Yes, sir, here's our discount program, thanks a lot for asking.

JR, Jimmy, you're right, consumers are trained, but IMO they can be trained differently for different market segments. I think the pricing of some etailers may be a bigger problem for the LHS pricing than the consumers getting used to 3 sale postcards a week from J.C. Penney.

Some folks like myself would prefer not to bother asking for a discount on every purchase, and would be just as happy to know an LHS won't discount the stick I just bought at tagged price, for someone else who asks.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

Yes. The more you buy, the greater a discount you get.

That is why you can't judge a store from a superstore...the store is paying more than the superstore for the exact same product.

The gap is bridged in the higher-end market; everything is MAP'd at that level, every manufacturer. But small stores still have to mark up to match the profit margin the e-tailer is getting, which is why you see the disparity in pricing. Some manufacturers don't even allow you to have a chance to buy the product if you don't come in at a certain account tier.

But then again, especially on the skate side, once you factor in the time to get the product (instant instead of 3 days), the fitting, the sharpening, the baking...it essentially SHOULD be a wash. If a store is selling for MUCH more than that, then that's a problem.

[cooperalls 4]

This is a pretty polarizing issue, having been on both sides of the counter I can understand both arguments.

Personally, I don't feel comfortable asking for deals/discounts without a specific reason. It's kind of elitist, but I feel like it implies I can't afford it without a discount. I know that's not how many people who always ask for a deal feel, that's just me. That said, I often wait for an advertised sale/clearance...unless I know what I'm looking for is tough to find or is so desirable it will likely be gone by the time a sale comes around.

I have a good friend with a very different outlook. To him, "Retail is for suckers", "It never hurts to ask" "I didn't get this much money by giving it away" etc, etc.

When I worked in a shop, it always made me uncomfortable when people asked for a discount. I didn't own the shop, I didn't set the prices, and I didn't work on commission. I was there to be a resource to customers, and to help them find what best suited their needs. It didn't bother me when they were polite about asking, or when they stated a specific reason for wanting a discount. When they got pushy, or acted like it was no big deal/expected, it bothered me. We were allowed to discount services, but not pricing. Meaning if you're buying skates we can give you the fitting, baking, punching/stretching, sharpening for free, but I can't give you X% off the price of the skates.

On one occasion I had a customer try to beat me up over the price of a set of wheels. I installed them free of charge (couldn't believe he didn't know how to do it himself) and told him if you buy a whole set (8) you get one free...or essentially $1 off each wheel. He repeatedly asked me to lower the price. Actually his asking price was less than we paid from the supplier...I didn't tell him that though. After several failed attempts at a further discount, he reluctantly pulls a roll of cash out of his pocket, slips a hundo off of what looked like more than I made on my last paycheck and set it on the counter. I understand his point of view, if he can get a deal, why not ask? Good for him for having money, no doubt I was a little jealous. But trying to brow-beat a guy who's obviously not in the same financial position is, indirectly, insulting.

I also found it really insulting when a customer would say "If I pay cash there's no tax, right?" The owner paid tax when buying the items, and will have to pay tax again when the items are sold. I resented the implication that I'd do something illegal, or that we were running a shady business. Like were supposed to willingly break the law and high five about it?...Take THAT Big Government! <-sarcasm

It's the customers right to ask, and the retailers right to grant/refuse the request. For me, I'd rather support my LHS, pay the price they're asking, or wait for a sale, and trust that being a good customer over time will get me the best service and perhaps un-solicited discounts down the road.

Sorry for the long-winded rant...that one's been pent up for awhile.

DS50 - I like your standard reply, wish I'd had something like that in my toolbox when I was working in a shop.