Graf Canada out of business

[MyBoxersSayJoe 133]

Maybe it's all the sales, but I've definitely seen an uptick of Grafs on mens league players over the past couple of months.  Everything from traditional 707's to the newer lines.

[chippa13 1844]

I would have had to include the unethical management.

[Kgbeast 195]

25 minutes ago, chippa13 said:

If by a solid name you mean known for slipshod workmanship and sketchy customer service, then sure, the Graf name is pretty solid and well regarded.

Every brand has at least one disapointed customer... I am not saying it is for everyone. I have owned 3 pairs of Graf skates and have not noticed shoddy workmanship in any of them. Will see if anything shoddy pops up on the pair of peakspeeds I should receive later this or earlier next week. 

[Kgbeast 195]

16 minutes ago, chippa13 said:

I would have had to include the unethical management.

Management comes and goes... the management you referring to is gone now.

 

19 minutes ago, MyBoxersSayJoe said:

Maybe it's all the sales, but I've definitely seen an uptick of Grafs on mens league players over the past couple of months.  Everything from traditional 707's to the newer lines.

I have noticed it as well. The clearances have a lot to do with it no doubt, but the brand recognition and respect is what makes people buy. if it was a clearance on Bob's Hockey skate brand, there would be no uptick. Actually, I have not seeing much uptick in Eastons that been on clearance as well. I am actually quite surprised with that come to think of it.

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

1 hour ago, jimmy said:

For a moment there, thought you were talking about Bauer.

 

[Vet88 674]

2 hours ago, Kgbeast said:

Every brand has at least one disapointed customer... I am not saying it is for everyone. I have owned 3 pairs of Graf skates and have not noticed shoddy workmanship in any of them. Will see if anything shoddy pops up on the pair of peakspeeds I should receive later this or earlier next week. 

I loved my graf skates for fit but only after: 

- I hammered down all of the staple ends in the footbed 

- added step steel to fix the stock steel that was bent and started to rust just at the thought of moisture 

- loctited the blade holder in place to stop the blade clicking and moving 

- added patches to the liner to stop early and rapid wear

- then finally replaced the holders with tucks (because the blade would not sit straight in cobra 5000 holder because the holder is just poorly made)

And then ended up doing similar work of varying degrees to just about every other graf skate in our local leagues (28 at last count). All had an issue of one kind or another, all fixable but just really poor QC. Fit and comfort is what Graf are really known for, if Vaughan can fix the rest at the right price point then they might be able to start a resurrection amongst retailers and players bit it's going to take a lot effort and they are going to have to front up with some really good customer service initiatives.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Vet88

[BenderHockey 127]

What's Graf?

[stick9 890]

Best of luck to Vaughn, but I can't help but think this is about 10 years too late. This should have happened when Graf was still somewhat of a player in the market.

Its going to take a seriously compelling product. Simply equal to CCM & Bauer just won't do. It will need to blow them out of the water and at a lower price. They'll sell some skates, just not enough to make it work.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

I just don't think there are enough delusional people that think Graf is a respected name in the industry to actually resurrect them. 

[IPv6Freely 2092]

5 hours ago, Kgbeast said:

 I have not seeing much uptick in Eastons that been on clearance as well.

Really? The Makos are selling like crazy now that they're being cleared out. I mean, those are the only skate Easton has made in a long, long time that was worth buying, so that's the only one that matters for the purposes of this conversation. 

[Zac911 317]

12 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

You make this seem as if retail customers in North America still want Graf.

They don't.  For quite some time now.

They have their niche markets.  They have a strong following in Northern Ca.

[jgold47 12]

growing up, Graf's were the grail skates.  It didnt matter what Tacks or Supremes you had (or Microns or...), if you had Graf's you were hot shit.  So, when I started playing again (and had money), thats what I wanted to buy. 

So up to a certain point, they still have cache.  However, now that I've heard all the issues their modern skates have, and how the older skates are so seemingly archaic (my local PIAS has a couple of pairs of NIB 727 and 703's in my size I've been tempted to buy, but they are so heavy and clunky feeling compared to a modern skate).  Even with new ownership,  I'm not sure that I would trust them any time soon unless there was a clear compelling reason to buy them.  Now, the story changes if they bring back some of the specialty fits  they used to have like the 709's, 727's, 704's and so on and so forth, then they might find a home as a solid 3/4th choice brand. 

 

 

Do European Graf's have a better reputation?

 

 

[EBondo 233]

We stopped carrying Graf in the store I work at because it simply took up space that could be better utilized with Bauer and CCM. Point is, people (meaning kids/teens) aren't coming in to the store saying "hey do you have the new Grafs in stock?" It just doesn't happen and hasn't happened in the 2.5 years I've been there. The only people that ever come in looking for Graf skates are older guys who were skating in it years prior. They're most likely buying their last skate at the time they come in, so they end up going with something Bauer of CCM most of the time. Sure, there's some guys that will end up in Graf regardless, but it's a very slim percentage. They just can't compete anymore.

[Davideo 99]

My guess would be that the Graf brand holds cachet amongst older players. However, their influence has been going down for a while and so younger players don't really care about them. If the Graf brand was able to marry together their classic style and their fit selection with newer materials and performance they could have a compelling lineup.

[DarkStar50 679]

There is a certain similarity between the recent history of Graf skates and CCM skates. There was a long and strong period during the early 2000s that lasted almost  a decade where CCM brought some real dogs to the skate marketplace. Vector and other CCM lines trashed their skate reputation while Bauer went deep into R D & D that let them surge ahead in the skate marketplace. Finally, CCM has turned a corner and is now competing with Bauer with strong skate products. Graf followed the same path, although quality control was also a major issue with their skate products. For a long time, Graf brought nothing to the marketplace that was a go-to must have skate. Their delivery and distribution was also a mess.  So looking at how long it took CCM to get back in the game with skates, I'm not sure Graf/Vaughn has the time or brand loyalty, none among younger players, to make the same comeback that CCM did.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

9 hours ago, Zac911 said:

They have their niche markets.  They have a strong following in Northern Ca.

NorCal is also a strong figure market, no? 

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

8 hours ago, Davideo said:

My guess would be that the Graf brand holds cachet amongst older players. However, their influence has been going down for a while and so younger players don't really care about them. If the Graf brand was able to marry together their classic style and their fit selection with newer materials and performance they could have a compelling lineup.

But even then - it was never a dominating brand. I wore 705s back in 1997 when most were in Supremes and Tacks. 

[jimmy 194]

9 hours ago, Davideo said:

My guess would be that the Graf brand holds cachet amongst older players. However, their influence has been going down for a while and so younger players don't really care about them. If the Graf brand was able to marry together their classic style and their fit selection with newer materials and performance they could have a compelling lineup.

This is true, older guys love them.  Kids don't because of marketing, they refuse to even try them on. Sad, but true. As for new materials, the Ultra G75 was basically same construction as the One90, yet with a better comfort package. No marketing/NHL exposure equaled no interest.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

And even then I think the old guys loved them because they were, for the most part, just plain black.

[DarkStar50 679]

^^ Referees.

 

[althoma1 574]

16 minutes ago, DarkStar50 said:

^^ Referees.

 

Yes, they're very popular with the older refs in the Toronto area, but it's rare you'll see a younger ref wearing them (Supremes seem to be the most popular amongst the younger refs). I was talking to one senior ref who'd used custom Grafs for quite some time, but is now actually considering going the VH route since he needs new skates soon and can't currently get customs through Graf. I recommended trying some clearance Makos to save some cash, but he seemed pretty set on going the custom route.

[leftwinger37 43]

10 hours ago, Davideo said:

My guess would be that the Graf brand holds cachet amongst older players. However, their influence has been going down for a while and so younger players don't really care about them. If the Graf brand was able to marry together their classic style and their fit selection with newer materials and performance they could have a compelling lineup.

This is certainly the case from where I sit. Graf skates seem to be the flip-phone of the hockey world. Different strokes for different folks I guess...

4 hours ago, DarkStar50 said:

There is a certain similarity between the recent history of Graf skates and CCM skates. There was a long and strong period during the early 2000s that lasted almost  a decade where CCM brought some real dogs to the skate marketplace. Vector and other CCM lines trashed their skate reputation while Bauer went deep into R D & D that let them surge ahead in the skate marketplace. Finally, CCM has turned a corner and is now competing with Bauer with strong skate products. Graf followed the same path, although quality control was also a major issue with their skate products. For a long time, Graf brought nothing to the marketplace that was a go-to must have skate. Their delivery and distribution was also a mess.  So looking at how long it took CCM to get back in the game with skates, I'm not sure Graf/Vaughn has the time or brand loyalty, none among younger players, to make the same comeback that CCM did.

I support your theory. I was in CCM Tacks pretty much my entire life except for 2007-2011 when I switched to a Graf G3. I was back in CCMs when the U+ CL came out. 

[iceman8310 105]

11 hours ago, jgold47 said:

growing up, Graf's were the grail skates.  It didnt matter what Tacks or Supremes you had (or Microns or...), if you had Graf's you were hot shit.  So, when I started playing again (and had money), thats what I wanted to buy. 

So up to a certain point, they still have cache.  However, now that I've heard all the issues their modern skates have, and how the older skates are so seemingly archaic (my local PIAS has a couple of pairs of NIB 727 and 703's in my size I've been tempted to buy, but they are so heavy and clunky feeling compared to a modern skate).  Even with new ownership,  I'm not sure that I would trust them any time soon unless there was a clear compelling reason to buy them.  Now, the story changes if they bring back some of the specialty fits  they used to have like the 709's, 727's, 704's and so on and so forth, then they might find a home as a solid 3/4th choice brand. 

 

 

Do European Graf's have a better reputation?

 

 

Graf europe IMO is/was way better

[chippa13 1844]

1 hour ago, IPv6Freely said:

And even then I think the old guys loved them because they were, for the most part, just plain black.

Older guys loved them because Graf stuck with a traditional feeling skate. The problem was that they maintained that with traditional construction for too long and fell behind in the weight game. If I could find a skate that felt like the 703s I wore 20 years ago that even came close in today's weight department then I would be all in. The closest I think I ever came was a pair of pro return Vector Pros made for Michal Grosek that I swapped the holders to Custom +.

Edited September 8, 2016 by chippa13

[stick9 890]

1 hour ago, jimmy said:

This is true, older guys love them.  Kids don't because of marketing, they refuse to even try them on. Sad, but true. As for new materials, the Ultra G75 was basically same construction as the One90, yet with a better comfort package. No marketing/NHL exposure equaled no interest.

If the skates are essentially the same, then why go with a company with almost zero exposure at the NHL level and zero marketing? Unless of course you are familiar with the brand and want to be loyal. And isn't that on the brand, not the consumer?

For example, CCM is doing a no questions money back guarantee on a product they know is at the very least equal to their competition.  

IMO, Graf sat on an outdated product catalog for way too long. I also think, at some point their "fit for every foot" approach actually hurt them.