TRUE TF9/TF7 skates

[smcgreg 81]

1 hour ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

If you look at many pros skates a significant number of them have oversized holders. I also skate on oversized holders as well and cannot go down in size without it affecting my sense of balance. 

I don't think a longer holder allows greater steel to work with, as you are only using a very minimal amount of steel when skating and that is dictated by the profile and hollow, regardless if its pushing or gliding, but I feel the longer holder provides a greater amount of surface area which does affect balance and such. 

I do think there are limits though to oversizing. I had a WHL player last year who was wearing a size 6 skate with 280 holders. Looking at his steel you could clearly see what portions of the blade he was using when skating and I made the recommendation to drop him to a 272. The trainer adjusted his backup pair of skates to a 272 without telling the player and when the player tested them he said he loved the new profile. We didn't adjust his profile at all, just gave him a slightly smaller holder and adjusted the balance point. 

TLDR: Stick with a 263 the longer holders you can without them extending off the toe or heel of the boot. 

You may be right about the amount of blade available for contact with strides, but given your impression about stability, it could still be a factor.  Greater stability on the support foot could result in greater stride length even if there isn't any more steel practically available for the push.  You get the same effect, just for a different reason.  Unfortunately my son is very attuned to such things and will pick  up on it immediately I am sure.  My daughter on the other hand could skate equally well on a pair of butter knives or top end skates without knowing the difference.  My point is, whatever the underlying reason, I am certain it will be noticeable (I know I would notice it). 

I am of the same mind as your recommendation, but I just hate swapping holders.  It invariably leads to rivet issues.  Oh well, I should have known it wouldn't be simple to just swap over.

Thanks,

[VegasHockey 1280]

38 minutes ago, smcgreg said:

You may be right about the amount of blade available for contact with strides, but given your impression about stability, it could still be a factor.  Greater stability on the support foot could result in greater stride length even if there isn't any more steel practically available for the push.  You get the same effect, just for a different reason.  Unfortunately my son is very attuned to such things and will pick  up on it immediately I am sure.  My daughter on the other hand could skate equally well on a pair of butter knives or top end skates without knowing the difference.  My point is, whatever the underlying reason, I am certain it will be noticeable (I know I would notice it). 

I am of the same mind as your recommendation, but I just hate swapping holders.  It invariably leads to rivet issues.  Oh well, I should have known it wouldn't be simple to just swap over.

Thanks,

If he likes TRUE skates and they fit him well you can usually find pro stock models that are new or almost new on sidelineswap for good prices. These usually have the right size holders mounted.

https://sidelineswap.com/shop/hockey/skates/player-skates/l72?brand[]=23199&skate-size[]=23302&skate-size[]=23303&skate-size[]=23301&skate-size[]=23304&skate-size[]=23305

[flip12 712]

4 hours ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

If you look at many pros skates a significant number of them have oversized holders. I also skate on oversized holders as well and cannot go down in size without it affecting my sense of balance. 

I don't think a longer holder allows greater steel to work with, as you are only using a very minimal amount of steel when skating and that is dictated by the profile and hollow, regardless if its pushing or gliding, but I feel the longer holder provides a greater amount of surface area which does affect balance and such. 

I do think there are limits though to oversizing. I had a WHL player last year who was wearing a size 6 skate with 280 holders. Looking at his steel you could clearly see what portions of the blade he was using when skating and I made the recommendation to drop him to a 272. The trainer adjusted his backup pair of skates to a 272 without telling the player and when the player tested them he said he loved the new profile. We didn't adjust his profile at all, just gave him a slightly smaller holder and adjusted the balance point. 

TLDR: Stick with a 263 the longer holders you can without them extending off the toe or heel of the boot. 

Comparing three holder sizes relative to a given boot size--holder one size down, holder standard to the boot, holder one size up--and not changing anything of the steel specs other than the size difference: what would be the most prominent effect, position of the balance point relative to the foot?

With the WHL player, how did you adjust the balance point on the 272 set? To match where it was on the 280 set or in some new location?

[chippa13 1844]

On 12/26/2020 at 10:54 AM, smcgreg said:

As usual, I really don't know much other than my own experience and in particular, for my kids trying to figure out how to optimize things for them.  I just know every time my son's gone up a size where the steel got longer, he loved it. So, going from his 5.5 Makos to 6.5s he went up again and was happy.  At this point, I'm not sure if going down in holder length might be better?  Agility is so much more important than top end speed once they're into the Midget years.  So, I'm open to it being a beneficial change, I just don't think he'll see it that way.

So, question for those experienced in such things, would the difference in 254 and 263 be substantial enough to drill new holes if he wanted a 263 on size 6 TF9s?  I'm not enthused about changing holders, because that opens a whole new can of worms, but if going that route, I assume the holes won't line up, so, is it even possible to put a 263 on instead of a 254? 

Thanks for the input.

Your son was happy each time he went up a size because as he continues to grow the location of the balance point needs to be adjusted. As long as the balance point is in the right place under the foot, he should feel no difference should he go down a holder size.

[smcgreg 81]

1 hour ago, chippa13 said:

Your son was happy each time he went up a size because as he continues to grow the location of the balance point needs to be adjusted. As long as the balance point is in the right place under the foot, he should feel no difference should he go down a holder size.

True.... or.... it could be that he liked the longer steel.  Just like I like a 3/4 radius and he can't stand anything shallower than a 1/2.  And he likes an 11 ft and I like a 10.  He likes the Alpha and I like a Covert.  Yours is a pretty emphatic statement for something as nebulous as what we're discussing without any knowledge of the underlying facts. 

Others have stated they like a longer runner as well.  Who knows why?

Just sayin.....

[start_today 770]

How stiff are the tf7/9 compared to other skates? My wife got a gift card to Pure Hockey and I’m trying to nudge her to try Trues since she’s never been 100% happy with her skates (various iterations of supreme 170/180 level, EE). Pure seems like they only have the TF9, and my worry is they might be too stiff. 

I know it’s primarily a try it on and see how it feels to you type thing, but on ice feel is different than in store. 

Need to check and see if they are honoring the 30 day thing. 

[mojo122 535]

52 minutes ago, start_today said:

How stiff are the tf7/9 compared to other skates? My wife got a gift card to Pure Hockey and I’m trying to nudge her to try Trues since she’s never been 100% happy with her skates (various iterations of supreme 170/180 level, EE). Pure seems like they only have the TF9, and my worry is they might be too stiff. 

If she is really a true EE fit I doubt you will find any wide TF9's at Pure Hockey.

[VegasHockey 1280]

4 hours ago, start_today said:

How stiff are the tf7/9 compared to other skates? My wife got a gift card to Pure Hockey and I’m trying to nudge her to try Trues since she’s never been 100% happy with her skates (various iterations of supreme 170/180 level, EE). Pure seems like they only have the TF9, and my worry is they might be too stiff. 

I know it’s primarily a try it on and see how it feels to you type thing, but on ice feel is different than in store. 

Need to check and see if they are honoring the 30 day thing. 

The TF7 is a very stiff skate, only slightly softer than a TF9. I would recommend a TF7 for her. 

[Paulkouhan 0]

On 9/1/2020 at 8:54 PM, Thorisson#3 said:

Bought the TF9's, fit was so-so out of the box... After baking at home (and shrink wrapping) the heel is 100% locked in and comfy, but a little room in the forefoot, thinking about baking again and shrink wrapping the forefoot section.

However, the lace bite i'm getting is just ridiculous... I've tried lacing the skates inwards out, outwards in, different lace bite lacing methods... I'm not failing the "pencil test"... I've tried to contact true support (e-mail) to try to see if they will ship me a different tongue or something... 9 days and 2 emails later, no answer... 😞 

I'll be skating in my MX3's tonight ... sadly.

 

Hi,

Did you solve your tongue problem ?

I just get the tf9 and the tongue puts too much pressure on 1 spot on the top of my feet. I think I will have to change the tongue. Did true helped you ? The pencil test is ok, I find the tongue very thick in the central part.

Which tongue should I try ? The more traditionnal tf7 tongue would probably be better.

I get the tf9 skates in 7R. The length seems good, maybe 1 or 2 mm longer than the actual ccm skate I have (jetspeed in 7EE, tacks in 7EE)

The volume is bigger than the jetspeed and close to the tacks.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Paulkouhan

[smcgreg 81]

To renew my comments on this skate based on the experience with my son.  I guess I should mention his particulars:  15 yr old.  HS/AAA caliber.  Skates 5+ times per week.  Old skate is Mako.

So, we got him 6.5 TF9s for Christmas and determined those were too big.  So, we had to go down a size (or more, since the Makos were starting to hurt).  We went with 6s after trying 5.5s as well.  After baking he was thrilled.  They felt as comfy and well-fitting as his Makos.  So, he was excited to skate on them for the first time.  First impressions after the first skate, he was less than thrilled.  I've been very rigorous in keeping my expectations to myself.  I assumed there would be some major differences to deal with, but didn't want to influence his impressions and thought some things might be different, but better with adaptation.  Anyway....

1.  Boot was still comfy, so, no issue there.  Coming from Makos, that's a pretty strong testament.  Not one complaint on the first skate after coming from the most comfortable skate ever made... (retail).

2. Boot seemed heavy.  (I anticipated this one). 

3.  Said if felt like going from rollerblades back to ice.... no for-aft stability. 

4.  Turns were good.

5.  Shot sucked.  (again, I anticipated this since there is more height off the ice than his Makos).

6.  Said if telt like ski boots when you walk and you're kicked forward/pushed forward.

Differences that are obvious aside from the boot that can explain some of these observations. 

1.  Pitch seems aggressive on the TF9s.  We have been profiling the Makos with a negative 2 to reduce the aggressiveness of the CXN pitch and make it more like a Vapor.  Measuring with a tape measure, there is still an extra 1/4in difference from back to front vs the Makos, so, that explains #6 above.

2. It seems the stock profile is around 9ft?  Coming from an 11 ft on him Makos, that would explain #3 above, I think.  This might also explain why turns were better #4?  Shorter radius should make for better tight turns, correct?

3.  the height difference compared to his Makos is about 1/2 in at the back and about 1/4 in at the front (measure with tape measure, so, grain of salt).  So, this would explain #5 due to stick being too short. 

So.... it seems like most of the issues can be addressed with a profile (11 ft and -1 pitch) and lengthening the stick 1/4 to 1/2 in. 

The only issue remaining would be weight. .....  So, the dilemma is, stick with them and profile or start the search for a different skate that fits (tall order) and weighs less. 

Sorry for lots of words, but hopefully it helps others who may be dealing with similar issues. 

 

 

[sturdy22 28]

57 minutes ago, smcgreg said:

To renew my comments on this skate based on the experience with my son.  I guess I should mention his particulars:  15 yr old.  HS/AAA caliber.  Skates 5+ times per week.  Old skate is Mako.

So, we got him 6.5 TF9s for Christmas and determined those were too big.  So, we had to go down a size (or more, since the Makos were starting to hurt).  We went with 6s after trying 5.5s as well.  After baking he was thrilled.  They felt as comfy and well-fitting as his Makos.  So, he was excited to skate on them for the first time.  First impressions after the first skate, he was less than thrilled.  I've been very rigorous in keeping my expectations to myself.  I assumed there would be some major differences to deal with, but didn't want to influence his impressions and thought some things might be different, but better with adaptation.  Anyway....

1.  Boot was still comfy, so, no issue there.  Coming from Makos, that's a pretty strong testament.  Not one complaint on the first skate after coming from the most comfortable skate ever made... (retail).

2. Boot seemed heavy.  (I anticipated this one). 

3.  Said if felt like going from rollerblades back to ice.... no for-aft stability. 

4.  Turns were good.

5.  Shot sucked.  (again, I anticipated this since there is more height off the ice than his Makos).

6.  Said if telt like ski boots when you walk and you're kicked forward/pushed forward.

Differences that are obvious aside from the boot that can explain some of these observations. 

1.  Pitch seems aggressive on the TF9s.  We have been profiling the Makos with a negative 2 to reduce the aggressiveness of the CXN pitch and make it more like a Vapor.  Measuring with a tape measure, there is still an extra 1/4in difference from back to front vs the Makos, so, that explains #6 above.

2. It seems the stock profile is around 9ft?  Coming from an 11 ft on him Makos, that would explain #3 above, I think.  This might also explain why turns were better #4?  Shorter radius should make for better tight turns, correct?

3.  the height difference compared to his Makos is about 1/2 in at the back and about 1/4 in at the front (measure with tape measure, so, grain of salt).  So, this would explain #5 due to stick being too short. 

So.... it seems like most of the issues can be addressed with a profile (11 ft and -1 pitch) and lengthening the stick 1/4 to 1/2 in. 

The only issue remaining would be weight. .....  So, the dilemma is, stick with them and profile or start the search for a different skate that fits (tall order) and weighs less. 

Sorry for lots of words, but hopefully it helps others who may be dealing with similar issues. 

 

 

I have been in this scenario with my skates and my sons. I started with the profile and was always able to get it dialed in. 

My Mako, supreme and Vapors all feel the same  all with different holders.  For reference, The stock CXN holder and steel on the makos where perfect for me.

what is the weight difference between a Mako and TF9 in a similar size?

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by sturdy22
Clarity

[althoma1 574]

1 hour ago, smcgreg said:

To renew my comments on this skate based on the experience with my son.  I guess I should mention his particulars:  15 yr old.  HS/AAA caliber.  Skates 5+ times per week.  Old skate is Mako.

So, we got him 6.5 TF9s for Christmas and determined those were too big.  So, we had to go down a size (or more, since the Makos were starting to hurt).  We went with 6s after trying 5.5s as well.  After baking he was thrilled.  They felt as comfy and well-fitting as his Makos.  So, he was excited to skate on them for the first time.  First impressions after the first skate, he was less than thrilled.  I've been very rigorous in keeping my expectations to myself.  I assumed there would be some major differences to deal with, but didn't want to influence his impressions and thought some things might be different, but better with adaptation.  Anyway....

1.  Boot was still comfy, so, no issue there.  Coming from Makos, that's a pretty strong testament.  Not one complaint on the first skate after coming from the most comfortable skate ever made... (retail).

2. Boot seemed heavy.  (I anticipated this one). 

3.  Said if felt like going from rollerblades back to ice.... no for-aft stability. 

4.  Turns were good.

5.  Shot sucked.  (again, I anticipated this since there is more height off the ice than his Makos).

6.  Said if telt like ski boots when you walk and you're kicked forward/pushed forward.

Differences that are obvious aside from the boot that can explain some of these observations. 

1.  Pitch seems aggressive on the TF9s.  We have been profiling the Makos with a negative 2 to reduce the aggressiveness of the CXN pitch and make it more like a Vapor.  Measuring with a tape measure, there is still an extra 1/4in difference from back to front vs the Makos, so, that explains #6 above.

2. It seems the stock profile is around 9ft?  Coming from an 11 ft on him Makos, that would explain #3 above, I think.  This might also explain why turns were better #4?  Shorter radius should make for better tight turns, correct?

3.  the height difference compared to his Makos is about 1/2 in at the back and about 1/4 in at the front (measure with tape measure, so, grain of salt).  So, this would explain #5 due to stick being too short. 

So.... it seems like most of the issues can be addressed with a profile (11 ft and -1 pitch) and lengthening the stick 1/4 to 1/2 in. 

The only issue remaining would be weight. .....  So, the dilemma is, stick with them and profile or start the search for a different skate that fits (tall order) and weighs less. 

Sorry for lots of words, but hopefully it helps others who may be dealing with similar issues. 

 

 

You've found a boot that fits really well without having to go the custom route. I would stick with those and start with profiling, if that doesn't work you can always swap the holders. It's still cheaper than going custom.

 If you do end up swapping holders, you can consider using CXN holders. That way they'd be shorter, plus you can still find step steel for the CXN holders that's less aggressively pitched (although they're likely discontinued now that CCM owns Step. So if you go the CXN route you might want to grab at least 2 sets while you can). 

You can get a right size 6/6.5 CXN holder for $5 from Perani's: https://www.hockeyworld.com/EASTON-CXN-Blade-Holder-Sr

You can get a left size 6/6.5 CXN holder for $5 from Hockeymonkey: https://www.hockeymonkey.com/easton-hockey-holder-cxn.html

You can get Step CXN steel for size 6 holders for $49.95 CAD from The Hockey Shop: https://www.thehockeyshop.com/products/steel-nash-easton-mako-sr-2pk-step?variant=31746752577602

Even after you add shipping, get a backup set of steel and pay around $40 for the holder swap, you'd still come out ahead vs. going custom or buying a top end CCM or Bauer skate. 

1 hour ago, sturdy22 said:

I have been in this scenario with my skates and my sons. I started with the profile and was always able to get it dialed in. 

My Mako, supreme and Vapors all feel the same  all with different holders.

what is the weight difference between a Mako and TF9 in a similar size?

 

According to Pure Hockey the size 8D TF9 is 904 grams. The OG Mako was about 819 grams and the Mako II was 839 grams in that size. So the True's are heavier, but it's not a massive difference (65-85 grams). 

Edited December 31, 2020 by althoma1

[smcgreg 81]

26 minutes ago, althoma1 said:

You've found a boot that fits really well without having to go the custom route. I would stick with those and start with profiling, if that doesn't work you can always swap the holders. It's still cheaper than going custom.

 If you do end up swapping holders, you can consider using CXN holders. That way they'd be shorter, plus you can still find step steel for the CXN holders that's less aggressively pitched (although they're likely discontinued now that CCM owns Step. So if you go the CXN route you might want to grab at least 2 sets while you can). 

You can get a right size 6/6.5 CXN holder for $5 from Perani's: https://www.hockeyworld.com/EASTON-CXN-Blade-Holder-Sr

You can get a left size 6/6.5 CXN holder for $5 from Hockeymonkey: https://www.hockeymonkey.com/easton-hockey-holder-cxn.html

You can get Step CXN steel for size 6 holders for $49.95 CAD from The Hockey Shop: https://www.thehockeyshop.com/products/steel-nash-easton-mako-sr-2pk-step?variant=31746752577602

Even after you add shipping, get a backup set of steel and pay around $40 for the holder swap, you'd still come out ahead vs. going custom or buying a top end CCM or Bauer skate. 

According to Pure Hockey the size 8D TF9 is 904 grams. The OG Mako was about 819grams and the Mako II was 839grams in that size. So the True's are heavier, but it's not a massive difference (60-80grams). 

So, from my understanding, CXN steel is no longer available.  That's why I accelerated the move to True or another skate.  I found the last set of Step CXNs I could find in N.A. in Sept.  That steel is done.  Since Step was purchased by CCM, they stopped making the CXN... or at least that's what I was lead to believe in the Fall. 

I get what you're saying though.  Going from Mako straight to another skate without boot issues would be unheard of in any other retail skate, I expect.  Especially since he has flat feet and has had issues with other boots he's tried for roller hockey. 

For the weight, the other thing that has been a concern is a puck off the foot in Makos.  He's a defenseman and it was a matter of time before he broke a foot at the level he plays at in those skates.  They're like running shoes.  So, a beafier boot or shot blockers are going to add weight, no two ways about it.  So, in some ways, a necessary evil. 

So, I'm in agreement with your assessment for the most part.  As I told him when he came off the ice with a grumpy face..... if the boot feels good, everything else can be fixed with profile or different holder.  In fact, the profile change I wrote in my last response will fix 90% of the issues, if not all, I expect.  Agility is an issue right now though at the level he plays.  Increased weight won't increase agility, but we'll see if the weight perception was more about a skate that didnt' respond the way he expected as opposed to actually being heavier. 

Thanks for the feedback.  You in particular have always been very helpful in Mako related issues, so, much appreciated.

Happy New Year. 

[althoma1 574]

19 minutes ago, smcgreg said:

So, from my understanding, CXN steel is no longer available.  That's why I accelerated the move to True or another skate.  I found the last set of Step CXNs I could find in N.A. in Sept.  That steel is done.  Since Step was purchased by CCM, they stopped making the CXN... or at least that's what I was lead to believe in the Fall. 

There's a limited supply of CXN Step and it isn't being produced anymore, but it's still out there right now. Here's some that I could find (unless the inventory hasn't been updated on the websites):

https://www.thehockeyshop.com/products/steel-nash-easton-mako-sr-2pk-step

https://www.hockeyvancouver.ca/products/step-steel-easton-mako-skate-runners?variant=21204487302

https://www.bayareahockeyrepair.com/product/step-steel-st-mako-standard-steel-runners-fits-easton-cxn-holder/

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Step-Steel-Easton-Mako-Skate-Runners-Steel-Blades-Fit-CXN-Holders-All-Sizes-/272347031165

https://hockeysupremacy.com/products/step-steel-runners-for-easton-cxn-holder-pair?variant=31951918465106

Not that you have to swap to the CXN holders, but right now it seems like there's still a reasonable supply of the Step CXN steel. The actual Easton ES4 steel on the hand; that's much harder to find. 

Anyway, I hope you can tweak the Trues so your son is as happy on the ice as he was off the ice. Happy New Year!

Edited December 31, 2020 by althoma1

[Miller55 333]

Hey @althoma1 wouldn't it just be more prudent, if he's going to swap holders, to just go to the xs holder if he's partial to step or lightspeeds if he doesn't have to have step? If you're anyway profiling the runners to -2 to offset the cxn pitch I don't see what the point of chasing down a discontinued holder and runners. Just looking at it from the other side, if he's 15 he's going to eventually have to get used to something else sooner or later, why not just do it now? Better to invest in something that's still in production IMO. 

[althoma1 574]

Yeah, you have a point. If the profiling isn't enough, going to something like the CCM XS holder probably makes more sense since it will have Step available and is still in production. I was just thinking that the CXN was cheaper, he's used to it already and he could stock up on a couple spare holders (at $5 each, why not) and a second set of clearance steel. With the extra parts it should outlast the skate. You're right about him having to get used to a newer holder eventually though. 

[Miller55 333]

10 minutes ago, althoma1 said:

Yeah, you have a point. If the profiling isn't enough, going to something like the CCM XS holder probably makes more sense since it will have Step available and is still in production. I was just thinking that the CXN was cheaper, he's used to it already and he could stock up on a couple spare holders (at $5 each, why not) and a second set of clearance steel. With the extra parts it should outlast the skate. You're right about him having to get used to a newer holder eventually though. 

You have a point with the price, definitely a nice deal and cheap enough to load up. I guess he could stock up to last quite a while at that price. The only real loss then is the quick change ability and having to carry a cxn tool around

[althoma1 574]

Short term, switching to CXN holders may be cheaper and make the adjustment to the new skate easier, but long term getting used to a holder that's in production (as you suggested) makes more sense. Hopefully profiling the True holders does the trick and no holder swap is needed. 

[smcgreg 81]

6 hours ago, Miller55 said:

Hey @althoma1 wouldn't it just be more prudent, if he's going to swap holders, to just go to the xs holder if he's partial to step or lightspeeds if he doesn't have to have step? If you're anyway profiling the runners to -2 to offset the cxn pitch I don't see what the point of chasing down a discontinued holder and runners. Just looking at it from the other side, if he's 15 he's going to eventually have to get used to something else sooner or later, why not just do it now? Better to invest in something that's still in production IMO. 

Yeah, that was part of the thought equation for me.  Actually, when Easton went out of business years ago, the thought was we'd buy a bunch of skates to fill the gap until something was available as an alternative in a few years.  I assumed it would be Bauer, but ended up being True.  So, now the time has come.  At the end of the day, a negative profile or alternative holder is a simple solution if the boot works, especially at the TF9 price point. 

[smcgreg 81]

1 hour ago, althoma1 said:

Short term, switching to CXN holders may be cheaper and make the adjustment to the new skate easier, but long term getting used to a holder that's in production (as you suggested) makes more sense. Hopefully profiling the True holders does the trick and no holder swap is needed. 

Having already swapped holders when we first switched from Bauer to Makos, I don't want to go that route again if other options are available.  Since I've thought about it the past day or so, a negative profile should fix the issue, or at least one.  Longer radius will fix another one

If it were me, it would be a different story.  I can/like doing stuff on the cheap and making it work.  For a kid that will be traveling without parents and on his own soon, not the best.  Plus he was looking forward to not having guys look at his skates and think he's the weird guy every time he goes into a new lockerroom. 

[Miller55 333]

1 hour ago, smcgreg said:

Plus he was looking forward to not having guys look at his skates and think he's the weird guy every time he goes into a new lockerroom. 

Lol, in not sure if the baby blue on the TF 9 helps that cause lol

[smcgreg 81]

26 minutes ago, Miller55 said:

Lol, in not sure if the baby blue on the TF 9 helps that cause lol

Compared to putting on Makos in a lockerroom full of people you don't know?........  Probably anything helps.   I get your point though.

[pucks_putts 13]

On 12/31/2020 at 12:38 PM, smcgreg said:

To renew my comments on this skate based on the experience with my son.  I guess I should mention his particulars:  15 yr old.  HS/AAA caliber.  Skates 5+ times per week.  Old skate is Mako.

So, we got him 6.5 TF9s for Christmas and determined those were too big.  So, we had to go down a size (or more, since the Makos were starting to hurt).  We went with 6s after trying 5.5s as well.  After baking he was thrilled.  They felt as comfy and well-fitting as his Makos.  So, he was excited to skate on them for the first time.  First impressions after the first skate, he was less than thrilled.  I've been very rigorous in keeping my expectations to myself.  I assumed there would be some major differences to deal with, but didn't want to influence his impressions and thought some things might be different, but better with adaptation.  Anyway....

1.  Boot was still comfy, so, no issue there.  Coming from Makos, that's a pretty strong testament.  Not one complaint on the first skate after coming from the most comfortable skate ever made... (retail).

2. Boot seemed heavy.  (I anticipated this one). 

3.  Said if felt like going from rollerblades back to ice.... no for-aft stability. 

4.  Turns were good.

5.  Shot sucked.  (again, I anticipated this since there is more height off the ice than his Makos).

6.  Said if telt like ski boots when you walk and you're kicked forward/pushed forward.

Differences that are obvious aside from the boot that can explain some of these observations. 

1.  Pitch seems aggressive on the TF9s.  We have been profiling the Makos with a negative 2 to reduce the aggressiveness of the CXN pitch and make it more like a Vapor.  Measuring with a tape measure, there is still an extra 1/4in difference from back to front vs the Makos, so, that explains #6 above.

2. It seems the stock profile is around 9ft?  Coming from an 11 ft on him Makos, that would explain #3 above, I think.  This might also explain why turns were better #4?  Shorter radius should make for better tight turns, correct?

3.  the height difference compared to his Makos is about 1/2 in at the back and about 1/4 in at the front (measure with tape measure, so, grain of salt).  So, this would explain #5 due to stick being too short. 

So.... it seems like most of the issues can be addressed with a profile (11 ft and -1 pitch) and lengthening the stick 1/4 to 1/2 in. 

The only issue remaining would be weight. .....  So, the dilemma is, stick with them and profile or start the search for a different skate that fits (tall order) and weighs less. 

Sorry for lots of words, but hopefully it helps others who may be dealing with similar issues. 

 

 

I struggled with the Shift holders. After a few tries at profiling I eventually swapped them out for Tuuks and immediately felt at home. 

[smcgreg 81]

8 hours ago, pucks_putts said:

I struggled with the Shift holders. After a few tries at profiling I eventually swapped them out for Tuuks and immediately felt at home. 

Yeah, I guess that's easy for somebody coming from TUUKS, but the holder, per se, shouldn't matter if all of the parameters can be matched with profile. 

I think that was althoma1's point earlier in this thread, that if we went to CXNs, it would be the fastest way to get exactly what he wants.  Having messed with profiles over the years to replicate the feel of different skates, I'm pretty sure we can get there with the profile.  Once that's nailed down, then we never have to worry about swapping holders.  I'm just not a fan of that approach for a number of reasons.

There's nothing inherently bad about the Shift holder is there?   Something I should be aware of?

Thanks,

[pucks_putts 13]

1 hour ago, smcgreg said:

Yeah, I guess that's easy for somebody coming from TUUKS, but the holder, per se, shouldn't matter if all of the parameters can be matched with profile. 

I think that was althoma1's point earlier in this thread, that if we went to CXNs, it would be the fastest way to get exactly what he wants.  Having messed with profiles over the years to replicate the feel of different skates, I'm pretty sure we can get there with the profile.  Once that's nailed down, then we never have to worry about swapping holders.  I'm just not a fan of that approach for a number of reasons.

There's nothing inherently bad about the Shift holder is there?   Something I should be aware of?

Thanks,

If you read around on the True Custom / VH thread a lot of guys talk about how the Shift holders are actually quite different from the others. I don’t know much about the CXN but I know that the XS is designed very much like the Tuuks for the specific reason of how popular Tuuks are with pros. I’m guessing the CXN isn’t far from Tuuk either since they dominated that era. I can’t remember all the details but three of the key points are:

1) They have a very aggressive forward pitch. More so than any of the other holders. Combine this with the boot that also is designed for more forward pitch and personally I felt like I was falling forward all the time and though I somewhat adjusted it never felt right to me. 

2) The Shift holder is designed to put more steel under and behind the heel. Supposedly this is better for skating but again personally this was the most uncomfortable aspect for me. I felt like my toes were “hanging” way out over the front of the steel. Just not a good feeling for me and I “toe picked” a LOT amy first few times out. 

3) The Shift is a Symmetrical holder. Meaning there is no difference between the left and right holders. They have the exact same rivet pattern and “down angle” to the steel. There is a lot of science behind this part and I’m not sure if this really made a huge difference but some people on here says this changes the distribution of weight and downward force into the steel this affecting stride and balance point. 

Again, there are some much more knowledgeable people than I on here and I’m just relaying my personal experience. I can’t personally comment too much on #3 because 1 + 2 were so prominent for me. 

Lastly I want to add that I know a few excellent skaters that kept the Shift holders and like them. Upon asking they all said that it was a bit of an adjustment but that after a few weeks they didn’t have any issues. 

I think it may come down to trial and error unfortunately. Good luck and I want to close by saying that my True’s are the best fitting and performing skate I’ve owned and I’ve owned many. Absolutely love the boot and will never buy a skate that isn’t built off a mold of my foot ever again. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by pucks_putts