TRUE TF9/TF7 skates

[pucks_putts 13]

5 hours ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

The holder has more forward pitch and is taller than the other holders. It's also symmetrical. Those things plus the inability to use the various steel options resulted in a very different experience and "feel" when skating on the SHIFT holder vs others. 

IMO, while CCM tried to replicate the "feel" of the EDGE holder so that players could more easily transition to the XS holder from the EDGE holder, TRUE instead wanted to change things up.

These changes resulted in a significantly different experience which some may enjoy and other will not. 

I’ve skated on Tuuks my entire life.

When I got my True Customs I really wanted to give the whole setup a chance including the Shift. I could NOT get used to them. I struggled badly with the Shifts, especially backwards skating and transitions. I went so far as to profile the steel twice but it was just too much of an adjustment for me and I ended up swapping for Tuuk Edge. Felt 100% back to normal in 10 minutes. 

In fairness I know a few guys that had very little trouble adjusting and are enjoying their Shift holders. 

[the_game 452]

The thing that is bugging me the most about my TF9's is the holder size being 263 where as I am used to a 272 Tuuk. That being said I'm giving the Shift holder a chance as I actually really like the pitch & height of the holder, in an odd way it makes the holder & blade feel stiffer, like you're getting that much more bite or energy transfer when you're skating. I've got them profiled but that small length you lose from 263 to 272 is still bugging the crap out of me and I will probably put on 272s. That being said I'm actually leaning towards going with a 272 Shift holder rather than a 272 Tuuk.

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 hour ago, the_game said:

The thing that is bugging me the most about my TF9's is the holder size being 263 where as I am used to a 272 Tuuk. That being said I'm giving the Shift holder a chance as I actually really like the pitch & height of the holder, in an odd way it makes the holder & blade feel stiffer, like you're getting that much more bite or energy transfer when you're skating. I've got them profiled but that small length you lose from 263 to 272 is still bugging the crap out of me and I will probably put on 272s. That being said I'm actually leaning towards going with a 272 Shift holder rather than a 272 Tuuk.

I have a set of 272 holders laying around my garage. If you want them send me a PM. No cost. I might even have some steel for them too. 

[ChrisG72 4]

I've had my TF9's for about 7 weeks now and once passed the annoying part of getting them on and off, they have been a great skate.  Also I was thinking of switching out the Shift holders to Tuuk, but gave them a chance and now they feel really good for me.

[VegasHockey 1280]

FYI:

True Hockey guarantees you will love your skates or you get your money back! Buy a pair of TF9 or TF7 Skates and go play! If you are not completely satisfied with the skates, you can return them for a full refund!

Details: Offer applicable to skates purchased from now until 1/31/21. Complete skates must be returned to within 30 days from the date of purchase with a copy of your invoice to receive the full refund. Not all retailers are participating so make sure to check with the retailer first. 

[BenBreeg 493]

That’s a good offer and since I am thinking about these skates one I would take advantage of.  Problem is Covid is running rampant and lots of people aren’t on the ice.  They need to extend that offer well into 2021.

[Miller55 333]

They're just matching CCM with that offer. 

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Which doesn’t make it any less of a good offer.

[BenBreeg 493]

Well, it makes it less valuable to the consumer, and really to True, if people can't take advantage of it because of it's limited duration.

[Miller55 333]

2 hours ago, BenBreeg said:

Well, it makes it less valuable to the consumer, and really to True, if people can't take advantage of it because of it's limited duration.

I think he was referring to what I said about it being the same offer as CCM. Agreed though, the value of the True skate lies in is price. A nice return policy is great, but this is a very short window. Gives someone a bit of extra value, but with a lot of states closing play into January, it kinda offsets this value. If someone were really concerned about not liking their skates and needing to return them, CCM is still the best option. So yes, it's still a good offer, but not such a good offer

[gosinger 122]

On a related note, for once such an offer also extends to Europe, at least I see European shops (e.g. HPS) offering this promotion - usually this is limited to USA/CAN.

[smcgreg 81]

OK, so, been a while since I contributed.  Just gave my son some TF9s for Chrstmas since he was on his last (our last ) pair of Makos and even steel was becoming impossible to find.  A couple notes to start

1) He was 6.5 in Mako and commenting that he felt they were getting small.  He got 6.5 TF9s as a present.  After baking, he is confident the 6.5 TF9s are too large.  I think it has  been a consistent theme in this thread that the TF series should size down (so, 1/2 size or more smaller than other skates you are coming from). 

2) Holder (and therefore runner) length.  I was not aware of this issue until last night when planning how to assess any problem areas that might come up.  Since his Makos are near the end, he needs to move to his new skates ASAP while things are kind of slow over Christmas.  Now I see that if he sticks with stock setup, he will be on a shorter holder and therefore less steel.... ugghhhh.  Why did they do this?  For agility?  Just curious, I would assume there must be a reason.  A 254 on a 6.5 is just too short even if we put an 11ft radius on it.  I'm not sure what the holder will be on the 6, but I assume not shorter?  I really don't want to swap holders as that creates rivet issues, but jeez, also don't want less steel on the ice.  I'm positive he will notice and not be happy. 

3) On the positive side, the finish seems much more polished than what I've seen with the customs. 

4) After baking, he commented they felt as nice as his Makos, just too long.  So, that's encouraging. 

Anyway, if anybody has any idea why they went with shorter holders/runners, I'd like to know.

Thanks,

[sturdy22 28]

1 hour ago, smcgreg said:

OK, so, been a while since I contributed.  Just gave my son some TF9s for Chrstmas since he was on his last (our last ) pair of Makos and even steel was becoming impossible to find.  A couple notes to start

1) He was 6.5 in Mako and commenting that he felt they were getting small.  He got 6.5 TF9s as a present.  After baking, he is confident the 6.5 TF9s are too large.  I think it has  been a consistent theme in this thread that the TF series should size down (so, 1/2 size or more smaller than other skates you are coming from). 

2) Holder (and therefore runner) length.  I was not aware of this issue until last night when planning how to assess any problem areas that might come up.  Since his Makos are near the end, he needs to move to his new skates ASAP while things are kind of slow over Christmas.  Now I see that if he sticks with stock setup, he will be on a shorter holder and therefore less steel.... ugghhhh.  Why did they do this?  For agility?  Just curious, I would assume there must be a reason.  A 254 on a 6.5 is just too short even if we put an 11ft radius on it.  I'm not sure what the holder will be on the 6, but I assume not shorter?  I really don't want to swap holders as that creates rivet issues, but jeez, also don't want less steel on the ice.  I'm positive he will notice and not be happy. 

3) On the positive side, the finish seems much more polished than what I've seen with the customs. 

4) After baking, he commented they felt as nice as his Makos, just too long.  So, that's encouraging. 

Anyway, if anybody has any idea why they went with shorter holders/runners, I'd like to know.

Thanks,

Merry Christmas.

i liked reading you experience with the sizing of the TF9 I have also heard similar accounts.

as far as the holder sizing, almost all of the skates that my sons have worn (Bauer and Reebok/CCM) in a 6 - 6.5D have all been mounted on 254s out of the box. 

263 holders were mounted on the Bauer’s starting with the size 7.

my mako 2 in 8EE have 272 and my makos in 9 have 280s.

holder sizing seems to be consistent.

 

[smcgreg 81]

3 minutes ago, sturdy22 said:

Merry Christmas.

i liked reading you experience with the sizing of the TF9 I have also heard similar accounts.

as far as the holder sizing, almost all of the skates that my sons have worn (Bauer and Reebok/CCM) in a 6 - 6.5D have all been mounted on 254s out of the box. 

263 holders were mounted on the Bauer’s starting with the size 7.

my mako 2 in 8EE have 272 and my makos in 9 have 280s.

holder sizing seems to be consistent.

 

Hmm... really?  both of us wear 6.5 in Makos.  He actually took my last pair when he grew into that size.  The Mako 6.5s are 263s, so, I assumed that was standard for the size. 

Thanks for setting me straight.  I'm sure we'll still need to do something about it, because even though I won't mention it, I know he'll notice the shorter runner as he uses very long strides for his size. 

I appreciate the input.

[sturdy22 28]

8 minutes ago, smcgreg said:

Hmm... really?  both of us wear 6.5 in Makos.  He actually took my last pair when he grew into that size.  The Mako 6.5s are 263s, so, I assumed that was standard for the size. 

Thanks for setting me straight.  I'm sure we'll still need to do something about it, because even though I won't mention it, I know he'll notice the shorter runner as he uses very long strides for his size. 

I appreciate the input.

No problem. I don’t know anything about the holder sizing on makos in a 6.5. Those could be the odd size that came with 263.

I assume yours were D width?

I have been looking at the TF9 or TF7 for myself once I my makos are done. I had a pair of second hand VH customs in a 8.5 EE that I couldn’t get my foot in so the stock pairs interest me. I’m way past the days of needing custom made skates

 

[Sniper9 529]

What I don't get is that if a 6.5 for tf9 is the same as 7 in Bauer/ccm, wouldn't the holder still remain the same (263), since both are the same physical length? Unless the shift holder doesn't max out on the length of the skate from heel to toe, and true has it so the holder always comes short of the toe a bit. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 12/25/2020 at 6:01 PM, Sniper9 said:

What I don't get is that if a 6.5 for tf9 is the same as 7 in Bauer/ccm, wouldn't the holder still remain the same (263), since both are the same physical length? Unless the shift holder doesn't max out on the length of the skate from heel to toe, and true has it so the holder always comes short of the toe a bit. 

I am going to ignore all of the Fit1/2/3 stuff from Bauer and just focus on standard D and EE fits for simplicity skate. When you go down a half size from a 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 size skate you usually end up with a smaller holder. 

This gets even more complicated when you add width it's the equation. Example:

Bauer 6.5D = 254
Bauer 6.5EE = 263
Bauer 7D = 263
Bauer 7.5D = 263
Bauer 7.5EE = 272
Bauer 8.0D = 272
Bauer 8.0EE = 272

Now imagine you wear a Bauer 7.5EE and therefore skate on a 272 holder and now need a size 7 or smaller TRUE skate. You would be going from 272 to 263 or a 254. 

Let's take this a step further. Imagine you are going from a 7.5EE Bauer to a 6.5 TRUE skate, you would be going from a 272 to a 254. 

Does this make things a little more clear? Perhaps clear as mud in some ways. Let's please not get CCM and Mako sizing added to this as well since that in itself is a whole other can of worms. 

With all of this being said I really wish that manufacturers would all standardize skate length and holder sizing, but that is likely not going to happen in my lifetime. 

Edited December 27, 2020 by SkateWorksPNW

[Vet88 674]

5 hours ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

Bauer 6.5D = 254
Bauer 6.5EE = 263
Bauer 7.5D = 263
Bauer 7.5EE = 272 

I think it was back when nxg was released, I measured every Bauer boot from size 6 to 12 and noted that as well as the holder change, the length of the boot also changed - EE was around 2mm-3mm longer than a D. I don't know if that is still the case today but it offers up a potential reason why the holder size is different.

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 hour ago, Vet88 said:

I think it was back when nxg was released, I measured every Bauer boot from size 6 to 12 and noted that as well as the holder change, the length of the boot also changed - EE was around 2mm-3mm longer than a D. I don't know if that is still the case today but it offers up a potential reason why the holder size is different.

Correct, extra wide skates are usually slightly longer than a standard. This is still accurate as of today.  

[smcgreg 81]

13 hours ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

I am going to ignore all of the Fit1/2/3 stuff from Bauer and just focus on standard D and EE fits for simplicity skate. When you go down a half size from a 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 size skate you usually end up with a smaller holder. 

This gets even more complicated when you add width it's the equation. Example:

Bauer 6.5D = 254
Bauer 6.5EE = 263
Bauer 7D = 263
Bauer 7.5D = 263
Bauer 7.5EE = 272
Bauer 8.0D = 272
Bauer 8.0EE = 272

Now imagine you wear a Bauer 7.5EE and therefore skate on a 272 holder and now need a size 7 or smaller TRUE skate. You would be going from 272 to 263 or a 254. 

Let's take this a step further. Imagine you are going from a 7.5EE TRUE to a 6.5 TRUE skate, you would be going from a 272 to a 254. 

Does this make things a little more clear? Perhaps clear as mud in some ways. Let's please not get CCM and Mako sizing added to this as well since that in itself is a whole other can of worms. 

With all of this being said I really wish that manufacturers would all standardize skate length and holder sizing, but that is likely not going to happen in my lifetime. 

As usual, I really don't know much other than my own experience and in particular, for my kids trying to figure out how to optimize things for them.  I just know every time my son's gone up a size where the steel got longer, he loved it. So, going from his 5.5 Makos to 6.5s he went up again and was happy.  At this point, I'm not sure if going down in holder length might be better?  Agility is so much more important than top end speed once they're into the Midget years.  So, I'm open to it being a beneficial change, I just don't think he'll see it that way.

So, question for those experienced in such things, would the difference in 254 and 263 be substantial enough to drill new holes if he wanted a 263 on size 6 TF9s?  I'm not enthused about changing holders, because that opens a whole new can of worms, but if going that route, I assume the holes won't line up, so, is it even possible to put a 263 on instead of a 254? 

Thanks for the input.

[the_game 452]

I went down the holder size in the retail true, from 7.5 custom true with 272 to retail tf9 size 7 with a 263 and I will be swapping them out for 272 holders, just couldn’t get 100% comfortable on them.

I’ve been putting inline chassis on ice boots since the 90’s, I think putting a larger holder on the trues won’t be an issue when drilling new holes. Just find a reputable shop who knows what they’re doing and you’ll be fine. If you’re worried about any of the ‘old’ holes maybe ask the shop where you’re having the holders swapped to use some epoxy to fill them.

Also make sure you ask that the shop is using the correct size rivets for the true’s. I remember reading in the other True thread that True uses a different rivet size to bite into the outsole. I forget what size that rivet needs to be maybe@JR Boucicaut can remind me. 

[Sniper9 529]

20 hours ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

I am going to ignore all of the Fit1/2/3 stuff from Bauer and just focus on standard D and EE fits for simplicity skate. When you go down a half size from a 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 size skate you usually end up with a smaller holder. 

This gets even more complicated when you add width it's the equation. Example:

Bauer 6.5D = 254
Bauer 6.5EE = 263
Bauer 7D = 263
Bauer 7.5D = 263
Bauer 7.5EE = 272
Bauer 8.0D = 272
Bauer 8.0EE = 272

Now imagine you wear a Bauer 7.5EE and therefore skate on a 272 holder and now need a size 7 or smaller TRUE skate. You would be going from 272 to 263 or a 254. 

Let's take this a step further. Imagine you are going from a 7.5EE TRUE to a 6.5 TRUE skate, you would be going from a 272 to a 254. 

Does this make things a little more clear? Perhaps clear as mud in some ways. Let's please not get CCM and Mako sizing added to this as well since that in itself is a whole other can of worms. 

With all of this being said I really wish that manufacturers would all standardize skate length and holder sizing, but that is likely not going to happen in my lifetime. 

 I get all this. What I don't get is if the length of a tf9 6.5d skate is supposedly the same as a 7d Bauer, shouldn't both be using the same holder length, regardless of the number size printed on the skate. 

[Miller55 333]

3 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

 I get all this. What I don't get is if the length of a tf9 6.5d skate is supposedly the same as a 7d Bauer, shouldn't both be using the same holder length, regardless of the number size printed on the skate. 

The answer is yes, it should, and nevertheless, it isn't. Basically I think this is everyone's complaint, that the number of the size is irrelevant, it's the length of the skate matched with the holder. It's one of the reasons why, as good of a deal as the TF skates are, that deal is pretty much dead when you have to swap holders and pay an extra 1-200 bucks and then try to sell the shift holders which nobody really wants

[VegasHockey 1280]

14 hours ago, Miller55 said:

The answer is yes, it should, and nevertheless, it isn't. Basically I think this is everyone's complaint, that the number of the size is irrelevant, it's the length of the skate matched with the holder. It's one of the reasons why, as good of a deal as the TF skates are, that deal is pretty much dead when you have to swap holders and pay an extra 1-200 bucks and then try to sell the shift holders which nobody really wants

Bingo. 

FWIW, I have been trying to explain this situation to TRUE but they still insist that their skate sizing is correct as is the matching of holder size to skate size. 

Sigh. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 12/26/2020 at 8:54 AM, smcgreg said:

As usual, I really don't know much other than my own experience and in particular, for my kids trying to figure out how to optimize things for them.  I just know every time my son's gone up a size where the steel got longer, he loved it. So, going from his 5.5 Makos to 6.5s he went up again and was happy.  At this point, I'm not sure if going down in holder length might be better?  Agility is so much more important than top end speed once they're into the Midget years.  So, I'm open to it being a beneficial change, I just don't think he'll see it that way.

So, question for those experienced in such things, would the difference in 254 and 263 be substantial enough to drill new holes if he wanted a 263 on size 6 TF9s?  I'm not enthused about changing holders, because that opens a whole new can of worms, but if going that route, I assume the holes won't line up, so, is it even possible to put a 263 on instead of a 254? 

Thanks for the input.

If you look at many pros skates a significant number of them have oversized holders. I also skate on oversized holders as well and cannot go down in size without it affecting my sense of balance. 

I don't think a longer holder allows greater steel to work with, as you are only using a very minimal amount of steel when skating and that is dictated by the profile and hollow, regardless if its pushing or gliding, but I feel the longer holder provides a greater amount of surface area which does affect balance and such. 

I do think there are limits though to oversizing. I had a WHL player last year who was wearing a size 6 skate with 280 holders. Looking at his steel you could clearly see what portions of the blade he was using when skating and I made the recommendation to drop him to a 272. The trainer adjusted his backup pair of skates to a 272 without telling the player and when the player tested them he said he loved the new profile. We didn't adjust his profile at all, just gave him a slightly smaller holder and adjusted the balance point. 

TLDR: Stick with a 263 the longer holders you can without them extending off the toe or heel of the boot.